Any Kind of Suggested Load for Blank Signal Cannons/Mortars?

[5kwkdw3]

Howdy folks:  I've been shooting all my adult life starting from my 18th birthday.  Mainly self taught with a job related academy in there, since my folks were NOT into anything that propelled a projectile.  Age and diabetic complications have got the better of me and I can no longer drive nor shoot in skeet and my favorite, Single Action Cowboy (SASS).  My last birthday (July 4th) all my kids came down to see me and set off a few fireworks.  I'd been planning the day for awhile and had recently purchased a BNA Stainless Eprouvette #2 on this page http://bna.bircherinc.com/bna-eprouvettemortars.htm   No problem on loads here since I got a powder scoop (looked like a laundry scoop).  The number 22 corks didn't make that much noise and the cork shot off branches of my tree.  Since I only got 4 corks I went about designing a wad for the mortar.  It ended up being a punched piece of corrugated cardboard of bore size affixed to some card stock that was larger than bore size to provide a nice seal in the bore.   When the day came the corks went pop (and shot my tree) and my wads made one hellatious noise and shook the ground, perfect.  Already planning next year I'm first picking up a sizable piece of stainless with three 1 3/16 X 3" bore vertical noise makers.  No scoop here so what do I use?  The standard of bore 1" diameter by one inch high of powder?  This thing is professionally made and I'm sure it could be loaded to the top with no ill effects, but I'd like to do it right.



Also I was thinking of the golf ball size again, but in a more sizable barrel.  Most I've looked at be it cannon barrel or thunder mug have an 8" long bore, some with powder chambers and some without.  Almost twice the thickness and out of the same material of my mortar.  Would I be able to increase the powder charge or am I always limited by the diameter of the bore, regardless of the barrel thickness?  Any help would be appreciated!!  Smithy.

[Doc Brown.]

Hi Kwkdw
 
My only suggestion for safe load for blank signal cannons would be to check out the chart here on the safe load and construction section of the forum. 
 
How much was the BNA Mortar you linked to? I love the way that thing looks in stainless steel and would be very interested in one. Thanks.

[5kwkdw3]

It was a little stiff at $550.00 which included the scoop and shipping to your lower 48 address.  They are serialed including year of production and the company makes around ten of that model per year.  Some of the other models (ie. same thing but out of naval brass, bronze, steel, or cast metal not sure if it was iron or steel) go for just over $100.00 bucks including shipping.  Jim, the maker is a joy to talk to and will even make a cannon/mortar of a known design or one that you come up with.  I was going to have him make me a stainless steel golf ball cannon barrel 16" long and he quoted me a price just over $800.00.  Real easy guy to work with.  Smithy.

[5kwkdw3]

Howdy folks, I'd thought that I'd post my new findings her as well.  I'm trying to find every post I made that made mention of suggested loads for some of the ordinance I have or plan to get.  The only one I know for sure is my BNA mortar made by Bircher.  As a part of the package, he sent an ultra detergent laundry scoop and instructed to use that as a powder scoop.  I recently purchased a volumetric black powder measure just to see what those loads are and with some corn meal I measured out a full laundry scoop of corn meal to get the following.  Mind you the mortar is 5" tall with a base of 3.5 X 4 inches and weighs around 8 or 9 pounds.  The full scoop throws a charge of 1200 grains of powder.  Now that is totally off the chart when it comes to the oft listed "safety loading chart".  The chart stops at a 1.5" bore and around 150 grains of powder and I'm shooting 8 times that amount in just one shot.  That's why I get a sizable blast when I touch one off.  My 1" bore multi fire pieces (a two shot and a three shot) are made with the same over-engineering and thickness of material.  It will be interesting to see how much of a load the manufacturer suggests for those.


I'm also having made another golf ball, this time a Thunder Mug, item that will also be over-engineered with a 3.5 inch base (possibly 4") and tapering down to 2.75" at the muzzle just short of the muzzle ring being machined as a part of the design.  It will be around a foot tall with additional stability provided by a 3/4 inch stainless plate welded to the base and a handle to tote it around.  Would that same 1200 grain load make for an even bigger blast coming out of the longer tube?  It all depends on the magnafluxing and pressure testing results (something I don't hear others doing?).  So now I'll have 5 pieces shooting 8 shots per lit fuse.  What a blast that will be!  Smithy.

[Ex 49'er]

Just because it can handle 1200 grs. doesn't mean it should have that big a charge everytime. I'm on a budget and that seems like a waste of powder to me. In my golfball mortar I use 75 - 90 grs. per shot. It's nice to watch the balls fly and retrieve them afterwards. I don't know how much powder I would use if I was only wanted to make noise. That's my 2 cents.
 
Good luck with your noisemakers and enjoy the blast!

[GGaskill]

If you are just trying to make noise, I expect a large part of the 1200 grains (2.75 oz) is going to be blown out of the muzzle and not even burn.  Get on youtube and look for cannonmn's video where he shoots the thunder mug.  You will hear unburned powder rain down upon the firing point after the heaviest loads are fired.

To save powder and lessen the chance for a undesired large explosion, you could go with 600 grains of powder and 600 grains of something llike corn meal which would be non-reactive but still give the resistance of the extra powder.

[5kwkdw3]

To save powder and lessen the chance for a undesired large explosion, you could go with 600 grains of powder and 600 grains of something llike corn meal which would be non-reactive but still give the resistance of the extra powder.

That's actually the first suggestion I've heard around here that makes some sense!  How much resistance do you think the unburnt powder (say 600 grains) is producing?  And, If I just swap it out for corn meal should I get the same blast?  Also, how would you go about finding that line between "everything got burned" and "no unburnt powder went out the muzzle"?  Start low and go high listening for powder pelting? or High down to low listening for it to stop?  My hearing is not the best in the world so wherever I stopped it'd be a guess at best.  Smithy


P.S.  Thanks for the tip!  I do appreciate constructive advice.

[GGaskill]

Also, how would you go about finding that line between "everything got burned" and "no unburnt powder went out the muzzle"?

I suppose I would spread newspaper around the firing point and examine it after each shot for unburned powder kernels.  Obviously, do when it is windless and somewhere that would not cause a problem if the newspaper caught fire.  I would weight the corners of the paper to keep them from blowing around, too, even though we want no wind for the experiment.

[Victor3]

To save powder and lessen the chance for a undesired large explosion, you could go with 600 grains of powder and 600 grains of something llike corn meal which would be non-reactive but still give the resistance of the extra powder.

That's actually the first suggestion I've heard around here that makes some sense!

 Takes a bit of reading comprehension to have obtained more, I guess. 

[flagman1776]

Start very low.  Work up in reasonable increments.  See what the least load makes a nice Bang!!    Think about the 4th of July.  I can fire a 21 gun salute on 1 pound of powder.   I can fire a few each hour from noon until dusk when the fireworks start.     

[Cat Whisperer]

Start very low.  Work up in reasonable increments.  See what the least load makes a nice Bang!!    Think about the 4th of July.  I can fire a 21 gun salute on 1 pound of powder.   I can fire a few each hour from noon until dusk when the fireworks start.   

GOOD advice.

[5kwkdw3]

I've read oh so many posts on various threads of this site and it truly is a treat to get some constructive advice that actually helps in the question asked.  Sure there are a lot of folks that know vast volumes of information about black powder devices both cannon and mortar, more that I ever could expect to.  That's often the reason I would post a question.  Making snide comments in a failed attempt to belittle me or trying to indicate that I'm somehow stupid or ignorant of the subject does NOTHING for my and other's impression of you nor of the validity of your answer.  I would sooner trust the advice of a well spoken and polite individual than I ever would a smart a$$ doing the only thing he knows how to, to make himself feel better about himself.  In that case I'm the one that has vast volumes more of self worth than the smart a$$ trying to get some through the belittlement of others.  Just my view.  Smithy.

[one thumb short]

Smitty Hear I thought I wa sthe only one that felt that way about this board,glad you spoke up I did and stopped getting help from some.I would ask a question and get something off the wall back.Their are a lot of people on this board and will try to help us when we need ,that is why I keep coming back to see what is happening.I have about the same back ground as you,Cowboy action hunting ,black powder rifle and pistol so I do not think we are dummies as some think.People who are there to help and keep us safe we need to listen to and the others you have to be like a duck and let their comments roll of your back.I enjoy most and I am still learning about cannons,but am nt interested in making scale cannons.I want to shoot my cannons to be safe and have fun shooting them.I got upset over comments but life goes on and enjoy what you like to do and have fun.ONE THUMB SHORT

[Doc Brown.]

To save powder and lessen the chance for a undesired large explosion, you could go with 600 grains of powder and 600 grains of something llike corn meal which would be non-reactive but still give the resistance of the extra powder.

That's actually the first suggestion I've heard around here that makes some sense!  How much resistance do you think the unburnt powder (say 600 grains) is producing?  And, If I just swap it out for corn meal should I get the same blast?  Also, how would you go about finding that line between "everything got burned" and "no unburnt powder went out the muzzle"?  Start low and go high listening for powder pelting? or High down to low listening for it to stop?  My hearing is not the best in the world so wherever I stopped it'd be a guess at best.  Smithy


P.S.  Thanks for the tip!  I do appreciate constructive advice.

Heres a tip on signal noise making charges.  A rule of thumb is your charge plus your wadding shouldn't exceed half your bore depth.
 
Something to  consider on very small signal cannons is that they can lift off and fly back extremely far from being over filled.
 
I once filled a very small probably 25 caliber cannon made in Spain with 3F black powder. I filled it all the way up to the very end.  The barrel shot up in the air about 25 feet. It came crashing down through the tree above me and landed at my feet.