Mountain howitzer Build - Need input on Carriage plans and Tube supplier

[jamesbibb]

 I am about to pull the trigger on a full scale mounatin howitzer build.   I have been researching alot and ny stepfather and myself have a ton of woodworking skills to construct a carriage from the ground up. I am looking for the best most stable plans for a carriage. This cannon is intended to be fired otherwise i have no need to build one. My second outreach is for what your thoughts are about hern tubes for live fire applications. I ve heard alot of good things and some not so good. It has to be safe no matter what!!! If not hern then whats a good route to go?


PS My first post and have been looking around. looks like my kinda place!

[jamesbibb]

I want to get started on the carriage build very soon and have the white oak stock dried and ready! the tube can wait,  I cannot!!! lol

[Double D]

The place to start for plans for this build is Antique Ordnance publishers  http://gunneyg.info/html/AOPCatalog.htm.

[Artilleryman]

I also recommend Antique Ordnance Publishers.

[jamesbibb]

Thats great thanks for the link i feel the second feild carriage is best. It seems to be the final design that worked best.

[keith44]

Hey jamesbibb Welcome to the board!!  Asking questions and doing research first identifys you as one of the smart ones(along with you insisting on safety above all else).

I look forward to seeing pics of this build.

[cdn_army]

Hi I am still learning about the whole cannon science, and I do not have anything bigger than a pop can size mortar. My understanding of hern tubes is that if you ask for a seamless tube and a properly shaped breach plug its a valid option. Also you will have to make a proper vent liner. What you need to avoid is having microscopic black power particles to go between the steel liner and the casting. With times the particles will attrac moisture, then corosion will form and since its most likely in an area where visual inspection may or may not be possible  at one point your tube may be more like a pipe bomb. So based on my understanding it seem that a proper steel liner can (or almost) withstand the presure by itself, so as long a you make a proper vent liner you should be good. Also Joel Brown at Hern seem to really stand behind his products and always answered all my questions. Safety is 49% about the tube and 51% the user, because Im sure not mater what tubes you get , there is at leas one moron that can somehow blow it apart.

Now like I said my experience is pretty limited so hopefully somebody with more experience than me will chime in

[KABAR2]

Welcom to the forum!
While the Hern tube is full scale the bore is not.... So you will be puting a lot of effort into something that is not an accurate replica, also weight wise this will be much heaver than a true mountian howitzer..... if you are planning an accurate representation do you want a small bore? Iron instead of bronze tube? I will say Hern makes a good tube for the money and it is a way to cut your teeth getting into the hobby that being said if you are going to build a mountian howitzer wouldn't you want to do it with a proper bore.

[Cannoneer]

Thats great thanks for the link i feel the second feild carriage is best. It seems to be the final design that worked best.

Welcome aboard, jamesbibb! I'm glad that you're going with the second model prairie carriage, because it seems to me like the majority of builders opt for the 1st model prairie or pack carriage. I agree with you that the 2nd model p-carriage combines the best features of the two carriages that preceded it, and makes for a sturdier more stable firing platform. Good luck with your build, and I hope that you'll share progress reports with us.

[jamesbibb]

Welcom to the forum!
While the Hern tube is full scale the bore is not.... So you will be puting a lot of effort into something that is not an accurate replica, also weight wise this will be much heaver than a true mountian howitzer..... if you are planning an accurate representation do you want a small bore? Iron instead of bronze tube? I will say Hern makes a good tube for the money and it is a way to cut your teeth getting into the hobby that being said if you are going to build a mountian howitzer wouldn't you want to do it with a proper bore.

This is true, i want this build to be as close as possible but i havent seen anyone that offers a MH with a 4.6 bore, i have seen one with a 3.6 (6 pounder bore) but at a much higher expense. Also hern bore is 3" & their liners are 1/2 inch thick which i like. This is why im starting on the carriage until we make up our mind on the tube and bore sizes. The carriage is the hard part anyways. Im sure I could get what I truly wanted if i had no bottom to my pockets lol. and Im sure their will be PLENTY of unforseen expense in this project to come. Once we get our first project done then perhaps a 3" rifle of sorts to absolute true scale would be in order.

[jamesbibb]

and thanks for all the replies fellas 

[jamesbibb]

The place to start for plans for this build is Antique Ordnance publishers  http://gunneyg.info/html/AOPCatalog.htm.

Carriage plans on the way! Time to get the ball flying so to speak

[Double D]

If you go to the  Cannon link list in the stickies at the top of the board you will find a list of cannon suppliers.  The first four deal in full size guns.

You might want to acquire a tube early in in your build so you can be sure of your dimensions and fit.

[Zulu]

You might want to acquire a tube early in in your build so you can be sure of your dimensions and fit.

Excellent advice.  I really don't know how you could do it any other way.  Sure you can build a carriage to specs but if you get a barrel that has a trunnion that is a little different size, it won't fit.  I know this from experience.
Zulu

[Artilleryman]

Also you will have to make a proper vent liner. What you need to avoid is having microscopic black power particles to go between the steel liner and the casting. With times the particles will attrac moisture, then corosion will form and since its most likely in an area where visual inspection may or may not be possible  at one point your tube may be more like a pipe bomb.

Now like I said my experience is pretty limited so hopefully somebody with more experience than me will chime in

You have the first part right about the vent piece.  The problem is not that it will become a pipe bomb, but that the gap the opens up between the bore liner and the barrel can hold an ember that may set off the next powder charge during loading.  This could occur if the cartridge breaks open and powder gets pushed up into the vent. 

[cdn_army]

oh i see! thank you for the explanation! either way it could ruin your day

[seacoastartillery]

      Jamesbibb,    Don't forget to check out Trail Rock Ordnance.  They are 10 up from the bottom of the list. They have a wide variety of cannon tubes and prices.  They have the cheapie, cast iron over liner type and a turned from solid steel type and even a bronze coated steel type that is turned and polished.  Mike and I saw their wares at the 2006 Artillery show in Mansfield, Ohio, and despite owning 4 South Bend Replica cannon and loving all of them, we agreed that the Trail Rock cannons were quality made.

     Here is a section of their catalog which has 12 Pdr. Mountain Howitzers:

12 Pdr Mountain Howitzer, Full Bored & Chambered  12 Pdr Mountain Howitzer, 3" or 3.625" Straight Bore   Price: $3,000.00  Price: $2,800.00   King Howitzer, 3" Bore, Chambered   Price: $1,000.00   Barrels Fabricated From Solid Steel & Bronze Coated This finish looks just like a bronze gun at a fraction of the price. The finish will last for many years with basic maintenance. The tubes are turned smooth & polished, then clear coated.   6 Pdr Gun, Model 1841  6 Pdr Gun, Model 1838   Price: $8,000.00  Price: $8,000.00   12 Pdr Field Howitzer, Model 1841  12 Pdr Field Howitzer, Model 1838   Price: $8,000.00  Price: $8,000.00   12 Pdr Napoleon   Price: $10,000.00   12 Pdr Mountain Howitzer   Price: $4,500.00      Check them out:   http://trailrockordnance.com/cannon_barrels.htm Although we have no business connection with Trail Rock Ordnance, we like their stuff.  Because they are made of steel, they have full size bores too at 4.62" dia.  Almost everyone else has only 3.00" or 3.62" bore dia. tubes. T&M

[jamesbibb]

Also you will have to make a proper vent liner. What you need to avoid is having microscopic black power particles to go between the steel liner and the casting. With times the particles will attrac moisture, then corosion will form and since its most likely in an area where visual inspection may or may not be possible  at one point your tube may be more like a pipe bomb.

Now like I said my experience is pretty limited so hopefully somebody with more experience than me will chime in

You have the first part right about the vent piece.  The problem is not that it will become a pipe bomb, but that the gap the opens up between the bore liner and the barrel can hold an ember that may set off the next powder charge during loading.  This could occur if the cartridge breaks open and powder gets pushed up into the vent.

OK  so this would only be an issue on a tube with a liner, and not a solid steel barrel or bronze obviously.

[KABAR2]

One of our members Ramparoom Artillery is working on building a 12lb mountian howitzer, it requires a big lathe and a big piece of steel...... plans are to bronze coat it.... it will be Nssa inspected and approved....