Getting my Black Powder Noise Makers Ready for Next Year.

[5kwkdw3]

I was sold on my recent purchase of a Bircher BNA stainless golf ball mortar.  It's set at a fixed 45 degrees with four blind holes in its base threaded to 5/16 X 18.  I made a wooden mortar bed out of treated 2X6 lumber.  Two pieces side by side going one direction topped with another two pieces going the other direction to form a thick square.  A load of glue and several deck screws hold the thing together.  I put in some steel angle flats to surround the base of the mortar and secured them in.  I also drilled four holes through the base for threaded rod to thread into the blind holes of the mortar, pass through the wooden base and secured on the bottom.  Handles on two opposing sides and on the other sides I put two eye screws on each end so I could tent stake the whole thing to the ground.  Look at the number 2 model and you'll see my mortar.  http://bna.bircherinc.com/bna-eprouvettemortars.htm  It was an absolute blast and next to share the same bed is this beauty  http://www.ebay.com/itm/190701331372?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649  a three shot signal cannon/thunder mug kind of thing.  I just got through installing a steel 90 degree plates to surround this addition.  In operation I'll have a fuse that in turn sets off each of the three shots of my recent addition to be followed by a very large bang from the BNA mortar.  I was given a laundry scoop from the maker of the mortar for its load and I'll have to do some experimenting on the new signal cannon for its load.  When I get that all figured out I was thinking of doing the following:


That is to use deprimed 50 BMG cases with the primer pocket threaded and closed with a brass screw and polished smooth.  Then figure out how much of the case will produce my anticipated loads, both for mortar and signal cannon.  I'll then drill a rim diameter hole into some brass flat stock and Dremel it into half on both ends of the brass piece.  That way I can stick the brass flat into the rim recess and solder each case onto the brass flat.  I'm hoping that a 50 BMG has the case capacity for the mortar, I know it has enough for the 1" bore signal cannon.  That way the cheap plastic is gone and I have an accurate, long lasting measure for both to help my loading procedure to have four shots per fuse lighting.  I'm getting into this in a bad way.  What do you folks think about this All steel Black Powder Golf Ball Cannon located towards the bottom of the site page  http://cannonsuperstore.com/black_powder_cannons.htm  It sure looks neat and heavy duty to add to my collection.  They also come in tennis ball size for a couple hundred more.  Smithy.

[little seacoast]

Hi, If I were in the market for what you are describing I'd look to the sponsors like Armorer77 or Dominic Carpenter first. I have bought products from both of them and they are first class and very safe.  No questions about proper materials or design to worry about which can not be said for many vendors.  Their prices are quite reasonable as well. Buy the Best!

[lthardman]

Hi, If I were in the market for what you are describing I'd look to the sponsors like Armorer77 or Dominic Carpenter first. I have bought products from both of them and they are first class and very safe.  No questions about proper materials or design to worry about which can not be said for many vendors.  Their prices are quite reasonable as well. Buy the Best!

I also have purchased from both and would/will again.

[5kwkdw3]

I found one place (his site I assume) for Dominick Carpenter's stuff and absolutely nothing for Armorer77!!  I saw references to folks owning stuff made by both folk but that's about it.  I'm a big fan of stainless steel for my mortars and cannon and also machined out of a single piece rather than a welded together job.  I've been getting some vary vague answers to my questions thus far on GO and don't know why.  Maybe that everyone else has no more experience than I.... That'd be a shame.  I asked how you folks figure out what load you are going to use and did not receive a solid answer from anyone.  I find that amazing.  At least I had an answer to that for myself.  A scoop that was provided from the maker of my mortar.  And then a formula for non powder chambered ordinance which was barrel diameter wide by barrel diameter high and the volume of powder that that would contain.  I was questioned of my wad assembly of a bore sized piece of cardboard attached to card stock that was an 1/8" larger than bore size to provide the seal, Yet this thread has a guy putting an unknown amount of powder into his piece and then proceeding to put the entire San Francisco Chronicle, sheet by sheet into the gun.  Sure there was a big bang, but there was also a bunch of on fire paper going everywhere.  My wads do not catch on fire, period.  I came to this site looking for help and advise, but it looks like I'm on my own.  That's fine, but it would have been nice for the first reply to state, "Dude, on this site, you are on your own!".  Just my thoughts.  Smithy.

[armorer77]

My web site will be back up by this week end . Ed

[Double D]

I found one place (his site I assume) for Dominick Carpenter's stuff and absolutely nothing for Armorer77!!  I saw references to folks owning stuff made by both folk but that's about it.  I'm a big fan of stainless steel for my mortars and cannon and also machined out of a single piece rather than a welded together job.  I've been getting some vary vague answers to my questions thus far on GO and don't know why.  Maybe that everyone else has no more experience than I.... That'd be a shame.  I asked how you folks figure out what load you are going to use and did not receive a solid answer from anyone.  I find that amazing.  At least I had an answer to that for myself.  A scoop that was provided from the maker of my mortar.  And then a formula for non powder chambered ordinance which was barrel diameter wide by barrel diameter high and the volume of powder that that would contain.  I was questioned of my wad assembly of a bore sized piece of cardboard attached to card stock that was an 1/8" larger than bore size to provide the seal, Yet this thread has a guy putting an unknown amount of powder into his piece and then proceeding to put the entire San Francisco Chronicle, sheet by sheet into the gun.  Sure there was a big bang, but there was also a bunch of on fire paper going everywhere.  My wads do not catch on fire, period.  I came to this site looking for help and advise, but it looks like I'm on my own.  That's fine, but it would have been nice for the first reply to state, "Dude, on this site, you are on your own!".  Just my thoughts.  Smithy.

Well first of all your post are very hard to read.  If you want people to read what you wrote make some white space-paragraphs-instead of big long blocks of letters. It is a lot easier to read.  I know when I see big long blocks of black I just scan over the whole thing and don't bother reading,

Lets try that first post of yours.

Howdy folks:  I've been shooting all my adult life starting from my 18th birthday.  Mainly self taught with a job related academy in there, since my folks were NOT into anything that propelled a projectile.  Age and diabetic complications have got the better of me and I can no longer drive nor shoot in skeet and my favorite, Single Action Cowboy (SASS).  My last birthday (July 4th) all my kids came down to see me and set off a few fireworks.  I'd been planning the day for awhile and had recently purchased a BNA Stainless Eprouvette #2 on this page http://bna.bircherinc.com/bna-eprouvettemortars.htm   No problem on loads here since I got a powder scoop (looked like a laundry scoop).  The number 22 corks didn't make that much noise and the cork shot off branches of my tree.  Since I only got 4 corks I went about designing a wad for the mortar.  It ended up being a punched piece of corrugated cardboard of bore size affixed to some card stock that was larger than bore size to provide a nice seal in the bore.   When the day came the corks went pop (and shot my tree) and my wads made one hellatious noise and shook the ground, perfect.  Already planning next year I'm first picking up a sizable piece of stainless with three 1 3/16 X 3" bore vertical noise makers.  No scoop here so what do I use?  The standard of bore 1" diameter by one inch high of powder?  This thing is professionally made and I'm sure it could be loaded to the top with no ill effects, but I'd like to do it right.



Also I was thinking of the golf ball size again, but in a more sizable barrel.  Most I've looked at be it cannon barrel or thunder mug have an 8" long bore, some with powder chambers and some without.  Almost twice the thickness and out of the same material of my mortar.  Would I be able to increase the powder charge or am I always limited by the diameter of the bore, regardless of the barrel thickness?  Any help would be appreciated!!  Smithy.

Let me break it up so it is readable.

Howdy folks:  I've been shooting all my adult life starting from my 18th birthday.  Mainly self taught with a job related academy in there, since my folks were NOT into anything that propelled a projectile.  Age and diabetic complications have got the better of me and I can no longer drive nor shoot in skeet and my favorite, Single Action Cowboy (SASS).  My last birthday (July 4th) all my kids came down to see me and set off a few fireworks.

 I'd been planning the day for awhile and had recently purchased a BNA Stainless Eprouvette #2 on this page http://bna.bircherinc.com/bna-eprouvettemortars.htm   No problem on loads here since I got a powder scoop (looked like a laundry scoop). 

The number 22 corks didn't make that much noise and the cork shot off branches of my tree.  Since I only got 4 corks I went about designing a wad for the mortar.  It ended up being a punched piece of corrugated cardboard of bore size affixed to some card stock that was larger than bore size to provide a nice seal in the bore.  When the day came the corks went pop (and shot my tree) and my wads made one hellatious noise and shook the ground, perfect. 

Already planning next year I'm first picking up a sizable piece of stainless with three 1 3/16 X 3" bore vertical noise makers.  No scoop here so what do I use?  The standard of bore 1" diameter by one inch high of powder?  This thing is professionally made and I'm sure it could be loaded to the top with no ill effects, but I'd like to do it right.



Also I was thinking of the golf ball size again, but in a more sizable barrel.  Most I've looked at be it cannon barrel or thunder mug have an 8" long bore, some with powder chambers and some without.  Almost twice the thickness and out of the same material of my mortar.  Would I be able to increase the powder charge or am I always limited by the diameter of the bore, regardless of the barrel thickness?  Any help would be appreciated!!  Smithy.

In all that I picked out three questions-

 

No scoop here so what do I use?

Get a scale and black powder measure.

The standard of bore 1" diameter by one inch high of powder?

I think the questionis,  what is the standard load for 1 inch bore.  Go to the top of the board and look for the sticky for safe loads.   There is a chart there for small cannons and 1 inch os on the chart. Your powder should be  Fg.
 

Would I be able to increase the powder charge or am I always limited by the diameter of the bore, regardless of the barrel thickness?

Yes for safe loads you are always limited by bore size again the safe loads post will help you with that.

Now let me make you first post readable.

I was sold on my recent purchase of a Bircher BNA stainless golf ball mortar.  It's set at a fixed 45 degrees with four blind holes in its base threaded to 5/16 X 18.  I made a wooden mortar bed out of treated 2X6 lumber.  Two pieces side by side going one direction topped with another two pieces going the other direction to form a thick square.  A load of glue and several deck screws hold the thing together.

 I put in some steel angle flats to surround the base of the mortar and secured them in.  I also drilled four holes through the base for threaded rod to thread into the blind holes of the mortar, pass through the wooden base and secured on the bottom. 

Handles on two opposing sides and on the other sides I put two eye screws on each end so I could tent stake the whole thing to the ground.  Look at the number 2 model and you'll see my mortar.  http://bna.bircherinc.com/bna-eprouvettemortars.htm

 It was an absolute blast and next to share the same bed is this beauty  http://www.ebay.com/itm/190701331372?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649  a three shot signal cannon/thunder mug kind of thing.

I just got through installing a steel 90 degree plates to surround this addition.  In operation I'll have a fuse that in turn sets off each of the three shots of my recent addition to be followed by a very large bang from the BNA mortar.  I was given a laundry scoop from the maker of the mortar for its load and I'll have to do some experimenting on the new signal cannon for its load. 


When I get that all figured out I was thinking of doing the following:


That is to use deprimed 50 BMG cases with the primer pocket threaded and closed with a brass screw and polished smooth.  Then figure out how much of the case will produce my anticipated loads, both for mortar and signal cannon. 

I'll then drill a rim diameter hole into some brass flat stock and Dremel it into half on both ends of the brass piece.  That way I can stick the brass flat into the rim recess and solder each case onto the brass flat.  I'm hoping that a 50 BMG has the case capacity for the mortar, I know it has enough for the 1" bore signal cannon.  That way the cheap plastic is gone and I have an accurate, long lasting measure for both to help my loading procedure to have four shots per fuse lighting.

 I'm getting into this in a bad way.  What do you folks think about this All steel Black Powder Golf Ball Cannon located towards the bottom of the site page  http://cannonsuperstore.com/black_powder_cannons.htm  It sure looks neat and heavy duty to add to my collection.  They also come in tennis ball size for a couple hundred more.  Smithy.

In all that I  only spotted one question.

What do you folks think about this All steel Black Powder Golf Ball Cannon located towards the bottom of the site page  http://cannonsuperstore.com/black_powder_cannons.htm

I think I would want to know a lot more before I bought.  What specific type steel?  How thick are the walls over the chamber?  The doesn't   look all that bad, not my taste, but alright.

Now for your latest post.

I found one place (his site I assume) for Dominick Carpenter's stuff and absolutely nothing for Armorer77!!  I saw references to folks owning stuff made by both folk but that's about it. 

You didn't look very hard.  This board is full of stuff about these folks guns.  We own a lot of them.  I own guns from four of the five sponsors.  I would buy from any of of them again.

I'm a big fan of stainless steel for my mortars and cannon and also machined out of a single piece rather than a welded together job.

 I've been getting some vary vague answers to my questions thus far on GO and don't know why.  Maybe that everyone else has no more experience than I.... That'd be a shame.  I asked how you folks figure out what load you are going to use and did not receive a solid answer from anyone.  I find that amazing.  At least I had an answer to that for myself.  A scoop that was provided from the maker of my mortar.


And then a formula for non powder chambered ordinance which was barrel diameter wide by barrel diameter high and the volume of powder that that would contain.


 I was questioned of my wad assembly of a bore sized piece of cardboard attached to card stock that was an 1/8" larger than bore size to provide the seal, Yet this thread has a guy putting an unknown amount of powder into his piece and then proceeding to put the entire San Francisco Chronicle, sheet by sheet into the gun.  Sure there was a big bang, but there was also a bunch of on fire paper going everywhere.  My wads do not catch on fire, period.

 I came to this site looking for help and advise, but it looks like I'm on my own.  That's fine, but it would have been nice for the first reply to state, "Dude, on this site, you are on your own!".  Just my thoughts.  Smithy.

Leave the attitude home, it won't get you help.

Write your post so they can be read and understood, and we will be more than glad to help you. 

[5kwkdw3]

Thanks Double D for the school lesson.  I'll try not to offend you with a long block of black.  Still no one has given me my simple question.  Maybe I should not have mentioned anything about what I had and was planning on shooting (bad mistake and I won't do it again).  What I was trying to get out of you folks is say you're given a modern well made piece of ordinance of X bore and Y barrel length with Z thickness of a known metal.  How would you all go about figuring out the charge to use for ball or blank?


Is there an old timer's formula that you might dig up?  Would you just guess and hope you don't blow yourself up and then fine tune it from there?  Or would you ever only use 5 grains of powder, just to be on the safe side?  I was told early on that folk didn't want to be on the same line when I touched one off.  Well I think am able to say the same thing about you all since you can't answer that simple question.


I gather from your lack of answer that if you did acquire a new piece of ordinance, you'd have no clue at all as to where to start with your first load.  At least I have that much figured out for my new cannon, I just was wondering if there was a more accurate means of coming up with a charge.  I got lambasted for the wads I was making out of cardboard and card stock, yet they travel less than ten feet and none as yet have shown any indication of catching on fire.  Yet I've seen some of you folk's posts showing video's of a guy putting an unknown charge in his cannon and then putting the entire San Francisco Chronicle packed as tight as can be on top of the charge.  Upon firing, loads of fiery projectiles exited the bore.


Skeet had know it alls, SASS had know it alls, and I guess the cannon community has them as well.  I have enough common sense to not blow myself up, or bystanders, or set something on fire like you folk video'd.  There, I broke this one up a bit and will not bother you all with mundane, first level cannon questions that you all should know like the back of your hand.  If not, then why in the dickens do you risk life and limb torching one off?  Smithy.


P.S.  I liken this to the home-built cannoneer.  Shades of a piece of plumbing pipe and an end cap with a fuse hole.  Wallah instant cannon.  NOT!

[Doc Brown.]

 
 
Im  defiantly not in the know it all category. Although on this forum I have learned its more of a conundrum of historians and professionals that are more interested in helping with specifics or sharing knowledge of importance.   Don't feel bad stop dancing around like that. 
Here is the formula you need. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,89682.0.html

 
 

[Double D]

Smithy,

You griped about no one responding to your  post. 

I told you why and suggested a better way to pose you question so you can get the help you ask for.

You don't like that advice.

I told you where the answer is to your question about load development can be found.

Now you gripe about that and "load" you post with snide remarks.  Did you even look at the post I referred to before you responded?

Do you really want help?   

[5kwkdw3]

Thanks dockholidaiy for your calm cool answer to my question.  As I peered at the site, I may very well have been given that before in this or another thread so my apologies for not looking closer.  All the talk on the page was about aluminum foil wrapped charges for full sized cannon which did not apply to me.  After getting my spec's on I realized that the chart referred to small bore cannons which does in fact apply to me.  By the way I love your Avatar and no I hadn't got that bad as yet, but sneaking up on it.


My mortar was made by Bircher Corp.  A BNA stainless Eprouvette that has been scaled down to its present 1.7" golf ball size.  Your page mentioned sticking to the powder chamber, but look at information printed from the maker.


"BNA Eprouvettes are vented for fuses. They have a powder chamber that is to nominal print-scale size. It is not much of a charge for this strong little mortar. It takes some practice to achieve a really loud blank shot with this mortar. ‘Very fine’ (ffffg) black powder and a liberal amount of not over-tightly packed wadding should be used to help get a loud report."


Now this flies in the face of some of the instructions on this site and that may have presented a conflict point.  Not only is the maker suggesting going way over the powder chamber for charge, He's also suggesting FFFF powder to do it with.  I'm using his scoop, but I'm loading it with only FFF powder.  My homeade wads are not tightly packed, but they do rest on top of the powder charge, unlike the #22 cork that was sent with the mortar.


My next one is a three shot signal mortar with vertical tubes made out of a 6" X 3" X 4" solid block of 316 stainless.  It has three 1" bores that are 3" long.  Again, overkill in the material department.  Looking at the chart, my 1.7" mortar is off the chart, but a 1.5" bore suggests a load of 500 grains which is WAY more than the scoop actually delivers.  If I read the chart correctly I should use around 180-190 grains for my 1" bores and again, I'll be lucky to put 100 grains in each bore.


I'm not looking to launch anything, just have a blast with my family during special occasions like the fourth of July etc.  I'm sorry I came off sounding snippy.  That has come from years on the SASS cowboy shooting site.  I had a self proclaimed monitor for every post I made.  He complained about anything and everything.  From spelling errors to punctuation to content, it just didn't matter.  I'm 52 years old and have been a shooter ever since my eighteenth birthday with 20 + years in the NSSA, a life member of that organization as well as the NRA and life member of several other gun organizations.  On SASS I was actually told that my posts are bulls&!* since I'd only been shooting SASS for around 1 year.  I've held an FFL for 20 + years and was a custom gunsmith for my department's competition weapons.   So when I saw a few of those posts, my hackle feathers went up QUICKLY!  I do know what I'm talking about because I've been there, done that, or seen it happen.  If I don't know, I'll keep my mouth shut or ask a question as I did here.


Happy blasting to all and I think I got what I need as I will be loading "Way under charge" loads as compared to the chart.  Smithy.

[Double D]

The charge charts in the safe loads post are conservative and design for shooting a projectile. Blank charges are larger.  And the chart is for a mximum load

Hopefully before the end of the year Matt Switlik will publish his newest addtion of "The More Complete Cannoneer"   Get a copy when it is released and you will find a lot of guidance in the book.  Artilleryman, give Matt a nudge!!

If BNA recommends something different, then you can shoot that.  BNA makes good stuff.

You won't get any punctuation, grammar or spelling demerits here...I would have ran out of demerits years ago if that was the case.

The three shot Thunder mug, I can't offer any quidance on, but again will point you the safe loads and construction post as a starting point.

[5kwkdw3]

Thanks Double D!  I do appreciate your help and guidance to my questions and am sorry I initially took offense to some.  That was entirely my fault (not yours) and I do apologize for my responses.   I got back with the maker of the three shot affair and tested his new suggestion (one easier to measure than heaping tablespoons and teaspoons).  With the suggested and tested loads figured out I went about making me a long lasting, durable measure for both the three shot and the BNA mortar.


Ends up I had a few 50 BMG cases laying around so I polished them up and drilled a 1/4" hole through the primer pocket.  I then got a piece of 1/8" thick by 3/4" wide piece of brass flat.  I cut the three cases just about at the start of the shoulder and polished the cut.  I then made three stainless "elevator" bolts out of standard 1/4 X 20 carriage bolts.  An elevator bolt looks like a carriage bolt, but the head is thin and flat.  Easy to do with the carriage bolts as I just chucked them up in my drill and held it to my grinder then 3M wheel for polishing.  I then used a 1/2" carriage bolt to pound the elevator bolt into the inside of the case and primer pocket.  Now I had a case with a 1/4 X 20 bolt hanging out the primer pocket.  With plenty of Red Loctite I threaded each case into threaded holes in the brass flat (using vise grips on the end of the threads and then more loctite and a stainless nut cranked into the brass flat to make the mounting a pretty much permanent affair.  I cut the bolts flush with the nuts and rounded the ends of the flat to match the cases and polished it all with my 3M wheel.


So the finished product has two cases headed one way and one case headed the other.  I hold the two case side and fill the one case and I have my load for each barrel of my three shot mortar.  If I hold the single case I can fill the two cases (done twice, so four cases worth) and I have my load for the BNA mortar.  No more plastic laundry scoops or trying to use an adjustable measure in the dark (fourth of July thinking here).  I will need to use a powder flask (a brass Traditions model) to fill my narrower measures.  Before I had a plastic spout that fit atop a one pound powder container (probably not the safest way to get powder to my mortars).


I got the fuse all figured out as well with 9" lengths.  First piece goes from the third barrel and tied to the remnant coming out of the second barrel.  This remnant is what I light.  It passes over the first barrel and out to the side.  The other 9" piece goes from the first barrel straight into the BNA mortar.  So when I light the fuse, the three shot mortar goes off in sequence to be followed by the BNA mortar.  Pretty nifty.  Smithy.

[Victor3]

 One thing's for sure, you got yourself a couple of sturdy mortars. 
 
 Just my (somewhat edjumucated) opinion, but I don't believe it would be possible (if firing a blank) to blow either the BNA or that mono-block-tripple-bbl ebay one up using 4FG, even if you filled the bore up to the muzzle. Not that you'd ever want to do that, but I don't see how your mortars could ever come apart using BP.
 
 If I were you, I'd start with ~100 grains of 3 or 4FG in both of them and increase from there. I use a ball of lightly crumpled alum foil that fits the bore and tamp it lightly (but not too lightly) on top of the powder. By the sound, flash and possibly a shower of unburnt powder, you can judge if your charge is right for the effect you want.
 
 One note on the multi-bbl one; I'd be very careful about approaching it if all three charges didn't go off as planned. Burning powder from the one(s) that do ignite might fall on top of a charge in the "dud" bore, possibly causing something of a "hangfire." You'll also want to make darn sure it's solidly mounted so it doesn't fall over after the 1st charge goes off, possibly knocking it on its side with the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction.
 
By the way, in past experience with firework shell launching mortars, I've found that a piece of quick match attatched to short visco fuses in the vents is a good way to get them all to go off at nearly (but not exactly) the same time.... BU-BU-BOOM. 
 
 Now you're on you're own, 'cause that's all I got...
 

[5kwkdw3]

I actually was looking for a different thread (one that more specifically referred to charges and a new piece not mentioned here).  I couldn't find it as yet, but I'll post here as well because I found it useful information if however contrary to the "load chart" oft quoted in these threads.  My rather small (5" tall with a 3.5 X 4" base) and a 1.7" bore, three inches deep, came from the manufacturer with a laundry scoop for a powder scoop.  I recently got an adjustable volumetric black powder measure and measured just how much powder went into that laundry scoop (without packing, just loose powder).  The full scoop holds 1200 grains of powder.  That's right, not 12, not 120, but 1200 grains of powder.  Which explains the very enjoyable blast that comes from lighting it off.  Smithy.

[Doc Brown.]

I actually was looking for a different thread (one that more specifically referred to charges and a new piece not mentioned here).  I couldn't find it as yet, but I'll post here as well because I found it useful information if however contrary to the "load chart" oft quoted in these threads.  My rather small (5" tall with a 3.5 X 4" base) and a 1.7" bore, three inches deep, came from the manufacturer with a laundry scoop for a powder scoop.  I recently got an adjustable volumetric black powder measure and measured just how much powder went into that laundry scoop (without packing, just loose powder).  The full scoop holds 1200 grains of powder.  That's right, not 12, not 120, but 1200 grains of powder.  Which explains the very enjoyable blast that comes from lighting it off.  Smithy.

Its probably not a big deal but you shouldn't use plastic to load your charge. If your laundry scoop is plastic it could cause a spark.

[brokenpole]

I, as much as others, am not an expert. But I do tend to buy from the site sponsors since I know I can contact them with any questions about loads both for projectile and blank loads on the 4th.
As for what to put in front of the powder to give it some pressure and a louder report, I use bread. It feeds the birds and will not catch fire. The squirrels that in habit my back yard also seem to enjoy the treat of mutilated, and some what toasted, bread.
Some stores in my area sell "old" bread that is out of date really cheap so that keeps the coast down.
As was mentioned previously make sure you don't compress the wad to much.

[5kwkdw3]

Hey guys, and Victor3 you'll get this, I found out what I was looking for.  When I ask "Is there an old timer's formula" or a "General formula" for figuring out your powder charge assuming that you have a good quality piece?  All I got was "Go to the safety load sheet" which as I recall topped out at around 150 grains of powder (correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I generally remember).  The answer to both is a "Square Charge" of powder.  Simple and easy to figure out and yes, the old timers used it to figure out their charge of powder.


All it is, is to take the diameter of the bore (say 1") and get a cylinder of that very same diameter cut to exactly that same length.  So in this case it'd be a 1" diameter cylinder exactly 1" long.  The powder contained in that cylinder would be the charge you'd go with, simple.


I now have three big massive hunks of stainless.  One turned into a BNA Eprovette Mortar, and two milled into a 1" bored double shot and a triple shot signal devices.  I asked really for the 1" jobs as my BNA came with a powder scoop.  Well when answers weren't forthcoming I decided to check a few things on my own.  In the process of that I noticed a soap companies line cast into what I was using as a powder measure for my BNA mortar.  Concerned that I may be using too much powder (full cup or just to the line?) I wrote the manufacturer to find out.  He's the one that told me about the Square Charge and the laundry scoop was indeed that, a square charge for my mortar.  In other words, I was supposed to fill the cup up to the top.


Now comes the fun part.  The soap company's molded in line (I know, I don't use that as a reference) contains 600 grains of powder.  Now the exciting part, the full cup (the square charge I'm supposed to use) contains 1200 grains of powder.  Go figure.  I never found a 1200 grain suggestion of the safety list I was always being referred to?  Why is that?  Full sized cannons have to be using powder measured in pounds not grains otherwise the ball would not shoot and may stick in the barrel.


Now back to my 1" double and triple units.  A square charge for them would be the above mentioned 1" cylinder and 1" long.  I haven't checked it out yet, but I'm guessing that a square charge for that will be in the neighborhood of 600-700 grains, maybe more?


Now admittingly my latest purchase, 1.7" bore X 10" length which was supposed to look like a cannon barrel ended up being a piece of high pressure stainless pipe with a breech plug welded in.  The square charge for this would also be 1200 grains of powder due to its bore, but I'm a bit leery of testing that theory.  Maybe I'll just put 200 or so grains of powder in it, a wad and some confetti? 


I am having a Thunder Mug made of stainless and it will be built like my BNA mortar was and my 1" signal guns.  4" of stainless at the base tapered down to just under 3" at the muzzle and bored to golf ball size, actually a bit bigger since it will be 1.75".  It will certainly hold and handle 1200 grains with no problem whatsoever.  After all, all I'll ever be shooting is a piece of cardboard with a circle of 3X5 card stock for a seal, out of it.  Figuring that out of my eight bores (5 1" and 3 golf ball) only one is not permanently built to shoot straight up.  The one is set permanently at a 45.  I can't really run that fast to avoid 7 golf balls and 1" balls coming back to earth.


So a very simple and quick answer to my questions here would have been "A Square Charge of powder which is bore cylinder by diameter length"  Simple.  Smithy.

[armorer77]

Another method from the Foxfire books says , place a ball on a flat surface and pour powder over it until you have a perfect cone . This is your charge . I haven't tried this but it is another method . Ed

[5kwkdw3]

Another method from the Foxfire books says , place a ball on a flat surface and pour powder over it until you have a perfect cone . This is your charge . I haven't tried this but it is another method . Ed

I haven't run into that one yet, but I could see it being there.  That one might get a little sloppy however with one guys pile being a nice neat cone and the other's a slightly messier pile taking awhile to form a cone and having a whole lot more powder.  Thanks for the tidbit.  It's nice to hear about historical uses of cannon.  I found out that the original piece my scaled down copy (the Bircher BNA Eprovette) was actually made to test the strength of various powders.  With a powder chamber the gun was loaded with powder X and had to launch a bore sized ball so many feet for the powder to be approved.  Probably why the gun is fixed at the 45 degree mark and is not adjustable.


There are U Tube videos of guys torching of a blank round of the BNA mortar with a full scoop of powder ie. 1200 grains and they did NOT secure it down with the provided four 5/16 X 18 holes in its base.  The mortar took more of a beating than a target would have if it had been loaded with ball.  Four or five backflips bouncing several times on the ground.  With what these serialed pieces cost, that guy was absolutely nuts not to mention the safety concerns.  Smithy.