Author Topic: The dark side of ingenuity: Colorado murders (Read 2201 times)

Conan The Librarian · « **on:** July 20, 2012, 02:47:38 AM »

I'm afraid that ingenuity has shown its dark side today. The murderer in Colorado that killed, to this hour, 12 people and wounded many others, seems to have discovered a method of mass murder that has not to my knowledge been used before, and has done so with obvious horrid effectiveness.

Beginning a shooting spree in a crowded movie theater during a violent movie, where the audience may reasonably expect the sound of gunshots, is a chilling innovation. The wearing of a gas mask in a situation where costumery is reasonably expected also seems to be part of the plan.

It is my understanding that some of the people in the adjacent theater thought the gun shot sounds were part of the show.

God help the wounded. May the families of the deceased find comfort in due time.

BBF · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:10:12 AM »

Again, nobody carried heat to limit this?

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:21:18 AM »

I think that's part of the ingenuity of it. Personal weapons are practically useless in a crowd situation like this, especially when it's dark.

lakota · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:22:21 AM »

What is your problem with CCW? Perhaps the theater created a criminal protection zone by posting a no guns sign on the door.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:28:59 AM »

Quote from: BBF on July 20, 2012, 05:10:12 AM

Again, nobody carried heat to limit this?

BBF- contrary to what the media wants you to believe, CCW holders are only a very small percentage of the population. They use skewed numbers like the number of background checks per year as the number of new permit holders per year. Some state like Kentucky run a background check every month on CCW permit holders. Can you see now how the numbers are falsely high?

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:33:06 AM »

Details are sketchy at this point but as a ccw I can attest that I would be very hesitant to engauge in a movie theater.

Points to consider before this thread leaves the station bound for crazy town.

At least one national theater chain prohibits ccw

Gunshots sound and feel nothing like movie sound FX

If Madagascar III is playing its going to seem a little weird to have a live actor amongst the audience with a gun shooting people?

Wich begs the question to Conan, have you ever been to a movie or fired a gun before?

powderman · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:37:26 AM »

Quote

Wich begs the question to Conan, have you ever been to a movie or fired a gun before?

rwdale. That was totally unnecessary. Movie theaters get VERY loud at times, Conan might be on to something. POWDERMAN.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:38:43 AM »

After reading the report this appears to have happened nothing like conans speculation would indicate.

This was literally a kick the emergency exit door down and empty a shotgun and rifle into the crowd and run.

The entire population inside the theater was in panic mode the moments the shooting began there was no slaughtering of lambs as Conan would speculate.

Also to engage a CCW would have to have been in the first row nearest to the door making the odds low and of course they'd be the next target if they did engauge

powderman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:50:45 AM »

rw. A witness on the news said that the punk was standing in the HALL reloading as she and others ran past him to safety. Amazing that with all those people running past him that nobody thought to ATTACK?? POWDERMAN.

mcbammer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:00:08 AM »

Quote from: powderman on July 20, 2012, 05:50:45 AM

rw. A witness on the news said that the punk was standing in the HALL reloading as she and others ran past him to safety. Amazing that with all those people running past him that nobody thought to ATTACK?? POWDERMAN.

The type people that watch Batman , are not exactly hero material.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:02:12 AM »

Quote from: powderman on July 20, 2012, 05:50:45 AM

rw. A witness on the news said that the punk was standing in the HALL reloading as she and others ran past him to safety. Amazing that with all those people running past him that nobody thought to ATTACK?? POWDERMAN.

The witness reports I'm reading say something completely diffrrent. The suspect was so quickly apprehended because POLICE were already in the front of the theater doing crowd control

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:08:21 AM »

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/deadly-shooting-colorado-movie-theater-dark-knight-rises/

Quote

KUSA-TV reports that Holmes kicked down an emergency door at the theater, threw in some type of a smoke bomb and began shooting when moviegoers started to run. The bodies of the 10 people who died at the theater remain at the scene early Friday while police continue to investigate, the Denver Post reports. Sources told Fox News that at least 3 military service members from Buckley Air Force Base were among those injured.

Witnesses say they heard a series of explosions and up to 20 gunshots after the scene grew chaotic. About 100 witnesses were taken to a local high school to be questioned by police.

Police, ambulances and emergency crews swarmed on the theater after frantic 911 calls around 12:30 a.m. local time, officials said.

Holmes reportedly fired shots inside the theater and fled to the parking lot and was confronted by police already at the theater for crowd control. Holmes wore a bulletproof vest, police said, and was carrying a rifle and two handguns. The handguns may have been placed in the theater before the shooting.

[Quote/]

mirage1988 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:19:58 AM »

The police were in front of the theater, but none were inside? A guy carrying a rifle earing a gas mask kicks in the emergency door and manages to shoot at least 60 people before the cops know whats happening?
Doesn't it make you feel all warm inside knowing the police are there to "protect and serve"?
At least we have 100 FBI agents on the scene to figure out what happened.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:34:10 AM »

Quote from: mirage1988 on July 20, 2012, 06:19:58 AM

The police were in front of the theater, but none were inside? A guy carrying a rifle earing a gas mask kicks in the emergency door and manages to shoot at least 60 people before the cops know whats happening?
Doesn't it make you feel all warm inside knowing the police are there to "protect and serve"?
At least we have 100 FBI agents on the scene to figure out what happened.

When seconds count the police are only minutes away. Is the saying that comes to mind.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:20:42 AM »

When I first saw this, they still didn't know how many casualties there were. Bottom line on this is that it's an important case. This appears to have taken planning to kill in a place where people would be most vulnerable (concentrated group, dark, loud, expecting shots or loud noises from movie, festive mood and not expecting trouble, etc.)

The big problem with these is that each new refinement in this kind of mania raises the bar for those who come later.

Do you remember the months after Columbine when there were a bunch of copy cat type murders? Likewise after the famous case that led to the writing of Truman Capote's In Cold Blood. After that, although such killings were practically unheard of before, they then became part of the nation's criminal landscape.

Now we have one killer, instead of two, killing about the same number of people as at Columbine, but with over twice the number of wounded.

streak · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2012, 08:18:56 AM »

Sad and horrific situation!
This happened only about a 10-12 minute drive from my house in Aurora, have not been able to find out names of those wounded or killed at this time. So do not know if any were my friends or neighbors.
One never knows when somebody will snap and these incidents will occur with deadly results. Not to sure, but this is probably a "Gun free" zone and thus the BG did not have to probably worry about any one with a ccw encountering him. Although trying to stop a BG in a theater would be not the most advantageous situation, it can be done and probably less carnage would have occured.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:10:16 PM »

My heart goes out to the victoms of the recent shooting in Colorado and their loved ones. But folks, these scumbags that do such shootings do so for the sheer notoriety. They want to be infamous! They crave to be infamous and the media gives them exactly what they want every dang time! Their names and faces known in every househould and tons of attention from those trying to understand them. EXACTLY what they want and crave! Just once I'd like to hear and see news reports stating the name of such a person is not worthy of mentioning and their faces certainly not worthy of shoving down our throats! Do that, take away everything they want and crave, and there just might be fewer of them! Along with penalties that count rather than living cush lives while being studied! I see the pic of this guy posted everywhere I look! Makes me not only want to beat the crap outta' him but I feel the same about those posting his pic!

powderman · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:10:16 PM »

Several survivors said that they thought it was all part of the show til they saw folks bleeding and shot. The police said he told them he was batmans enemy the JOKER. POWDERMAN.

hardertr · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:13:22 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on July 20, 2012, 03:10:16 PM

My heart goes out to the victoms of the recent shooting in Colorado and their loved ones. But folks, these scumbags that do such shootings do so for the sheer notoriety. They want to be infamous! They crave to be infamous and the media gives them exactly what they want every dang time! Their names and faces known in every househould and tons of attention from those trying to understand them. EXACTLY what they want and crave! Just once I'd like to hear and see news reports stating the name of such a person is not worthy of mentioning and their faces certainly not worthy of shoving down our throats! Do that, take away everything they want and crave, and there just might be fewer of them! Along with penalties that count rather than living cush lives while being studied! I see the pic of this guy posted everywhere I look! Makes me not only want to beat the crap outta' him but I feel the same about those posting his pic!

Actually.... I think guys like this do it because they simply feel destructive. They don't care about "fame", they are messed up inside and are mad at the world. What better way to "prove your point" than to destroy the lives of numerous victims and families. I would imagine it brings them a sense of comfort to know others feel the pain you feel too.

I'm sure we'll find something in this guys past that lit the fuse and ultimately triggered his actions. Don't forget, this guy was obviously well educated, and would have easily proven himself as a doctor upon graduation.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:03:42 PM »

Quote from: hardertr on July 20, 2012, 04:13:22 PM

Quote from: Spirithawk on July 20, 2012, 03:10:16 PM
My heart goes out to the victoms of the recent shooting in Colorado and their loved ones. But folks, these scumbags that do such shootings do so for the sheer notoriety. They want to be infamous! They crave to be infamous and the media gives them exactly what they want every dang time! Their names and faces known in every househould and tons of attention from those trying to understand them. EXACTLY what they want and crave! Just once I'd like to hear and see news reports stating the name of such a person is not worthy of mentioning and their faces certainly not worthy of shoving down our throats! Do that, take away everything they want and crave, and there just might be fewer of them! Along with penalties that count rather than living cush lives while being studied! I see the pic of this guy posted everywhere I look! Makes me not only want to beat the crap outta' him but I feel the same about those posting his pic!

Actually.... I think guys like this do it because they simply feel destructive. They don't care about "fame", they are messed up inside and are mad at the world. What better way to "prove your point" than to destroy the lives of numerous victims and families. I would imagine it brings them a sense of comfort to know others feel the pain you feel too.

I'm sure we'll find something in this guys past that lit the fuse and ultimately triggered his actions. Don't forget, this guy was obviously well educated, and would have easily proven himself as a doctor upon graduation.

Much of what you say is true but I garauntee you he didn't choose the premier of a famous movie and call himself the Joker because he "didn't" want publicity.

powderman · « **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2012, 06:12:25 AM »

Quote

Much of what you say is true but I garauntee you he didn't choose the premier of a famous movie and call himself the Joker because he "didn't" want publicity.

You bet he wanted publicity. HEY look at me, I murdered an bunch of people, aren't ya proud of me?? I bet everybody knows me now, I'm famous. The punk should have been shot on site. POWDERMAN.

Sourdough · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:02:33 PM »

I've listened to the reports and the Sheriff's explination. Here is what I have pieced togeather, and I feel this is as accurate as has been told by everyone in the know. Not the Media.

The guy showed up bought a ticket and went inside. (My openion, While inside he put a piece of tape across the bolt on the exit door lock. or jambed something in the door to hold it from locking). Then it is reported he went back outside. Then he came through the Exit door wearing Body Armor, a throat protector, groin protector, and a ballistic helmet. The only vulnarable spot was his face.

Any CCW folks that had tried to shoot him would not have been able to see all the body armor. Anyone shooting him center mass as trained would have made themselfes a target. A pistol bullet hitting that armor would have hurt him, about like getting hit by a hammer, but doubtful it would have knocked him down, especially since most CCWs carry 9MM or smaller. Few carry .45s.

The guy threw in two bombs of either tear gas or smoke. Then he fired into the ceiling like the Joker did in the last Batman Movie. After that he started shooting at people with the shot gun. When the shotgun was empty he started using the AR. he walked up the aisle, shooting people hiding behind seats. Then he left the theater and headed for his car. Since the police was already present one of them seen him fleeying out the exit headed to his car.

Now he expected someone to have already opened his apartment door, so he told the police about the booby traps at his apartment. At midnight when he walked into the theater, a timmer started music blearing at his apartment. He had left the door unlocked. A neighbor had gone to the apartment and knocked on his door. She checked the door knob, and found the door unlocked. She pushed the door open just a little and yelled. No one answered, she thought about opening the door farther, but thought this is not right, so she pulled the door back closed and went back down stairs to her apartment.

If she had gone into the apartment, she would have probably been blown up, or severly burned. Along with anyone else in surrounding apartments.

I have to say this is a rumer and unconfirmed. Word going around in Biological Academia, he failed a test that would have gotten him washed him out of the Biology PHD he was going to school for, that is why he is reported to have dropped out. I think we may hear more about this later.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:06:05 PM »

From what I heard he didn't kick down the door. He bought a ticket, went inside and once the movie started he snuck out the Emergency Exit propping it open. Went to his car which he had parked close, clothed himself head to toe in body armour, retrieved his weapons then headed back inside. His first act was to toss in two tear gas canisters. I'm all for Conceal Carry and shooting back but this was well planned and a simple handgun would not have been much defense against him under the circumstances. I say make an example of him and fry his butt. That or bring back public hanging!

Sourdough · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:11:55 PM »

Spirithawk: We must listen to the same people.

powderman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:33:02 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on July 21, 2012, 03:11:55 PM

Spirithawk: We must listen to the same people.

YEP, me too. Kinda hard to kick in a metal door that opens to the outside if he was outside. That punk needs to be made an example of. Anybody here thinks he should be allowed to live?? POWDERMAN.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:38:50 PM »

Quote from: Sourdough on July 21, 2012, 03:11:55 PM

Spirithawk: We must listen to the same people.

Yep.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #26 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:40:35 PM »

Quote from: powderman on July 21, 2012, 03:33:02 PM

Quote from: Sourdough on July 21, 2012, 03:11:55 PM
Spirithawk: We must listen to the same people.

YEP, me too. Kinda hard to kick in a metal door that opens to the outside if he was outside. That punk needs to be made an example of. Anybody here thinks he should be allowed to live?? POWDERMAN.

Just long enough to walk to the gallows.

kennyd · « **Reply #27 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:43:59 PM »

Given a midnight movie, I doubt few would have been carrying, and as stated, most carriers would not go to Batman anyway. I was out of town (I, too live about 10 minutes away in Aurora) saw this on Sacramento news. It all got the California analysis there. Mental health care in the years before would aybe have made a difference. Probably we will never know what set this off. The guy seemed to be on track to do better than most in life.

lakota · « **Reply #28 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:48:26 PM »

This guy is a sicko coward. All of these mass murderers are attention craving cowards. For once it would be refreshing to see a news outlet not plaster us with photos of the coward or the coward's name. It would be nice if the media would say up front: "We are not showing any photos or saying the name of the piece of crap because he is not worthy of our attention." Take some of the attention and "glory" away from these cowards and maybe the next copy cat coward would think twice becuase the attention just isnt there. But I know that will never happen. The media is like a bunch of vultures circling overhead. Now they have another carcass to pick clean. They exploit incidents like this to gain ratings. The media makes me sick to my stomach.

lakota · « **Reply #29 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on July 21, 2012, 03:40:35 PM

Quote from: powderman on July 21, 2012, 03:33:02 PM
Quote from: Sourdough on July 21, 2012, 03:11:55 PM
Spirithawk: We must listen to the same people.

YEP, me too. Kinda hard to kick in a metal door that opens to the outside if he was outside. That punk needs to be made an example of. Anybody here thinks he should be allowed to live?? POWDERMAN.
Just long enough to walk to the gallows.

The gallows is too good for this coward. I say spare a few lab animals and use sickos like this for medical research.