Author Topic: The dark side of ingenuity: Colorado murders (Read 2217 times)

Victor3 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 21, 2012, 11:24:38 PM »

I really don't see much in the way of "ingenuity" here.

If someone wants to kill a maximum number of people in the shortest time, how should he go about it? Go to a place where lots of people congregate and shoot or blow them up.

Minor details change, but this has been terrorism 101 for a very long time...

T.R. · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2012, 11:05:41 AM »

I have never understood how a person thinks that murder solves problems?

TR

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2012, 02:29:26 AM »

Victor3: He doubled the casualties from Columbine in total people killed or injured, and he included a network of bombs as part of his act. That's a dramatic leap for these kooks in the US. In comparing the number of casualties and the method, this guy looks more like the Norway killer, who may have been an inspiration to this killer. The Norway killer first set a bomb that killed 8 or 9, then went on his shooting spree days later. In any case, it looks like these guys have become more calculating, more efficient, better equipped, and more deadly than previous rampage killers.

lakota · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2012, 05:55:52 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on July 23, 2012, 04:05:52 AM

Either that, or assisted and advised....TM7

I think you are on to something there. How does some grad school drop out booby trap an apartment without blowing himself up in the process?

Victor3 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 23, 2012, 10:48:02 PM »

He only dropped out in order to start his new job as a mass murderer. Setting booby traps aint exactly brain surgury (or neuroscience, Holmes' field of study).

I think the guy had a break from reality, executed his plan, then reconnected (at least for a moment) after he exited on the way back to his car. Why else would he have told the cops about his apartment?

Doubling casualties from a previous similar incident is no real indication of ingenuity IMO, and just because it happened in the US doesn't mean it's something all that novel (as far as worldwide terrorism goes).

This guy just planned a little differently than other US nutters have up to this point, which along with some measure of luck, allowed him to kill/injure more people. Any minor problem along the way could easily have prevented him from carrying out his plan, and today we might be painting him as a bumbling fool, not an evil genius.

BBF · « **Reply #35 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:41:25 AM »

Quote from: powderman on July 21, 2012, 03:33:02 PM

Quote from: Sourdough on July 21, 2012, 03:11:55 PM
Spirithawk: We must listen to the same people.

YEP, me too. Kinda hard to kick in a metal door that opens to the outside if he was outside. That punk needs to be made an example of. Anybody here thinks he should be allowed to live?? POWDERMAN.

Yes I do.

In a solidary unheated dark dungeon, fed once a week on Ol' Roys Dog biscuits.

BBF · « **Reply #36 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:59:33 AM »

While scrolling thru this I just noticed the ad for a Keltec KSG 14 1

WHY ??

What use would a Civilian have for one of these or for that matter a 100 round Mag(if this was the case) for a semi-auto banger.

For a lark I bought an after market 10 round Mag for the Rem 760 rifle in 30-06 It is legal here( I think) The Mag also fits the 742 and is definitely illegal for that rifle.

I'm all for your 2nd. original reason. This IMO has gone way over the top.

Awf Hand · « **Reply #37 on:** July 24, 2012, 03:14:57 AM »

Quote from: BBF on July 24, 2012, 02:59:33 AM

While scrolling thru this I just noticed the ad for a Keltec KSG 14 1

WHY ??

What use would a Civilian have for one of these or for that matter a 100 round Mag(if this was the case) for a semi-auto banger.

For a lark I bought an after market 10 round Mag for the Rem 760 rifle in 30-06 It is legal here( I think) The Mag also fits the 742 and is definitely illegal for that rifle.

I'm all for your 2nd. original reason. This IMO has gone way over the top.

...and I'm all for the 1st for original reason, but this internet goes way over the top. People just can't handle the power to broadcast or read viewpoints to or from billions of others.

My viewpoint is that if I don't like something I don't buy it. Others' viewpoint is if they don't like it than NOBODY should buy it.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #38 on:** July 24, 2012, 04:27:40 AM »

Much is made of the arsenal. I know lots of guys who have way more than 6000 rounds on hand. They are enthusiastic target shooters and spend their winters loading, then shooting what they made. Either that or guys who buy a couple of cases of 22s because they like to shoot 22s. Or they buy some flats on sale of 12 gauge for trap or skeet. These guys are totally harmless. If they weren't we'd have heard of them by now. There's just a certain percentage of the population who likes to shoot a lot.

mcbammer · « **Reply #39 on:** July 24, 2012, 04:57:51 AM »

The Pres. candidates are really quiet on gun control at the present time. I fear all hell will break loose after the election and the war on gun owners .

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 24, 2012, 08:44:54 AM »

His "body armor" turned out to be an unarmored tactical vest. So scratch that $1500 off the budget.

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DDZ · « **Reply #41 on:** July 24, 2012, 08:56:17 AM »

Here's the vest he was wearing. Its nylon, which is not able to stop a bullet. Can't listen to the government run media, and expect everything they say to be the truth.

http://tacticalgear.com/blackhawk-urban-assault-vest

mcbammer · « **Reply #42 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:29:58 PM »

This guy was getting a living expence allowance from the college he was attending according to the media. Thats how he could afford the weapons.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:40:19 PM »

Quote from: mcbammer on July 24, 2012, 02:29:58 PM

This guy was getting a living expence allowance from the college he was attending according to the media. Thats how he could afford the weapons.

Enough to buy an AR, two Glocks, and a shotgun? Plus ammo? After he'd dropped out?
Not that I agree with someone's repeated claim it was $20,000 worth, but I think it was in the $3500 range.

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kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:41:08 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on July 24, 2012, 07:16:45 AM

Quote from: Conan The Librarian on July 24, 2012, 04:27:40 AM
Much is made of the arsenal. I know lots of guys who have way more than 6000 rounds on hand. They are enthusiastic target shooters and spend their winters loading, then shooting what they made. Either that or guys who buy a couple of cases of 22s because they like to shoot 22s. Or they buy some flats on sale of 12 gauge for trap or skeet. These guys are totally harmless. If they weren't we'd have heard of them by now. There's just a certain percentage of the population who likes to shoot a lot.
.
I don't know if this guy was a long term shooting enthusiast, do you know?. Looks like he was a shooting newcomer. I've read his outfit and supplies could go as high as $20,000,,,the armour alone $1500. I'm not an expert in this area of tactical shooting,,,,but I find an unemployed sociopath kid would have a hard time footing this bill or portion of it...while maintaining an 'altered state' of mind....
.
..TM7

Care to walk us through that budget?

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billy_56081 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 24, 2012, 03:38:09 PM »

The 20,000 dollar lie doesn't fit well with a crowd like here agt GBO, what he had was less than 5000 dollars worth.

One point about these whacko nut job killers is, is that it is good they are not very good shots with what this bowel movement was packing I'm sure many here could have had a much , much higher body count.

Victor3 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 24, 2012, 07:08:09 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on July 24, 2012, 02:04:03 AM

How did an unemployed reality challenged sociopath dropout get $20,000 for supplies..?

A credit card, cosigned by Dad?

Quote

Who were his psyche doctors and what meds was he on?

I'm betting that the answer to this one will be telling. I've seen enough mental conditions in family and friends caused or exacerbated by SSRI drugs to know that the stuff is poison. Toss a little Ambien into the mix and all bets are off...

finisher · « **Reply #47 on:** July 24, 2012, 08:00:39 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on July 21, 2012, 03:06:05 PM

From what I heard he didn't kick down the door. He bought a ticket, went inside and once the movie started he snuck out the Emergency Exit propping it open. Went to his car which he had parked close, clothed himself head to toe in body armour, retrieved his weapons then headed back inside. His first act was to toss in two tear gas canisters. I'm all for Conceal Carry and shooting back but this was well planned and a simple handgun would not have been much defense against him under the circumstances. I say make an example of him and fry his butt. That or bring back public hanging!

**********
Spirithawk and Sourdough, you both are probably right. One would have to have legs like the Incredible Hulk to be able to kick in a fire/emergency exit door. The steel jams are concrete embedded into the structure and the metal door itself weighs about 85 lbs.

finisher · « **Reply #48 on:** July 24, 2012, 08:06:44 PM »

Quote from: DDZ on July 24, 2012, 08:56:17 AM

Here's the vest he was wearing. Its nylon, which is not able to stop a bullet. Can't listen to the government run media, and expect everything they say to be the truth.

http://tacticalgear.com/blackhawk-urban-assault-vest

******************
This may have been more like an old era flak jacket designed to protect from shrapnel. You can pick up an old one cheap in any pawn shop. I don't know about the newer ones but the old ones won't stop a bullet. Not too sure they did too well against flak either from stories I've heard.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 25, 2012, 11:07:22 AM »

It wasn't anything but a nylon vest with pouches for magazines. Not a flak vest, not Kevlar, just nylon.