Compact 9 mm's

[Swampman]

Thing is most who buy any gun seldom shoot them like some of us. So why spend more money than needed ?

Because you want them to work when you do have to shoot them.

[SHOOTALL]

Thing is most who buy any gun seldom shoot them like some of us. So why spend more money than needed ?

Because you want them to work when you do have to shoot them.

will they even remember they have it ?

[Swampman]

If it's in their pocket they should.

[Spirithawk]

Thing is most who buy any gun seldom shoot them like some of us. So why spend more money than needed ?

Because you want them to work when you do have to shoot them.

will they even remember they have it ?

I carry 24/7 365 and practice two or three times a week. Helps I live in the country and have my own range and I realised not everyone has those privlages. I do admit my PF-9 & P-32 are so comfortable to carry it's easy to forget I'm carrying sometimes. But that only refers to walking into buildings where carry isn't alllowed and I always seem to remember at the door. As  to remembering when I have needed to use them reflexes seemed to outweigh  concious thought, and that comes from practice, such as when I caught two guys stealing my neighbors building materials and one made a move for a handgun in the cab of his truck. Persuaded him that was a real bad idea!   My son and I buy our ammo in bulk so we can practice when we want.

[Spirithawk]

Regarding Swamps statements about the LC9's superiority;
 
( Quoting Swamp.....The LC9 is 100% flawless., the LC9 has shown no problem that couldn't be traced to the owner's ineptness,
because you want it to work when you need it, Ruger uses suprior materials. )
He might want to rethink things a bit.
TAKEN FROM RUGER'S OWN SITE;
LC9 BLOWS UP!;
I was shooting my fathers new LC9 for the first time last week and I experienced what I call a significant failure. The extractor, extractor spring and a pin that appears to hold it all together were blown out of the gun. I fired the pistol and was struck in the face in several places by "shrapnel" which turned out to be these parts. I have never experienced such a failure with any other handgun and to be quite honest it was a little disturbing. This gun has fired less than 50 rounds at this point. When I looked at the gun there was a spent casing in the chamber and it was trying to chamber a second round. I'm assuming that the pressure in the chamber caused the extractor to be blown out of the slide. This is rather troubling to me because I also own an LC9 which I intended to use as my edc during the warmer summer months. I have fired between 50 and 100 rounds through mine and now I'm convinced that I need to do some serious endurance testing to determine whether in fact it is a reliable carry weapon. I'm posting this to find out if anyone else has had these types of problems with their LC9. The guy at the range where we were shooting said that they have seen several LC9's with the same failure! If you have experienced this type of failure with your LC9, please share your experience and what Ruger's solution, if any, to the failure was.

[SHOOTALL]

If it's in their pocket they should.

naw not the ones who tote the ones who by and leave in in a drawer for years .

[Dixie Dude]

Nothing made by man is flawless.  Even the Saturn V Apollo which was gone over by a fine toothed comb at every launch.  One Saturn had an engine failure right after launch.  It was shut down, but with 5 engines on both the first and second stage, they had engine out redundantcy.  They just shut it down and throttled up the other 4.  Also Apollo 13 was a failure, but they got home using the LEM as backup. 

[SHOOTALL]

So why make a pistol that does not have second strike ablity ?

[Mike in Virginia]

Ruger knows they are a bit weak or else they wouldn't say no +P+ ammo. 

[SHOOTALL]

Many manfactures suggest no +P+ ammo even in full size pistols and revolvers. That said with the short bbl in a LC9 would the extra powder even have time to be a benifit ? Autos are more sensitive to power changes in ammo. The timming is critical for smooth operation . If slide speed is faster than it was designed then there can be feed problems not just excessive wear. Often recoil springs can negate the ill effect at the expence of not being reliable with standard ammo. More often the weight of the slide or dwell time is increased . So just because an auto loading weapon says no +P+ ammo is not saying it is a weak gun. In many cases the manf. is alerting the shooter that certian ammo will not function 100% .  One only need to review the complicated slide spring arrangements of a 3 inch bbl 1911 and the years of failure before they became as reliable as a Govt. model. 

[Spirithawk]

Many manfactures suggest no +P+ ammo even in full size pistols and revolvers. That said with the short bbl in a LC9 would the extra powder even have time to be a benifit ? Autos are more sensitive to power changes in ammo. The timming is critical for smooth operation . If slide speed is faster than it was designed then there can be feed problems not just excessive wear. Often recoil springs can negate the ill effect at the expence of not being reliable with standard ammo. More often the weight of the slide or dwell time is increased . So just because an auto loading weapon says no +P+ ammo is not saying it is a weak gun. In many cases the manf. is alerting the shooter that certian ammo will not function 100% .  One only need to review the complicated slide spring arrangements of a 3 inch bbl 1911 and the years of failure before they became as reliable as a Govt. model. 

Good post. Kel Tec stresses their firearms will handle + P ammo but only in moderation. I'm like you. I realy don't see the +P rating in short barrel guns being much more than a gimmick to make the buyer think he's getting something special. Why I said the revolver version of the S&W Bodyguard is a gimmick being chambered for the .38 Spec. +P rounds. If the barrel isn't long enough to make full benifit of  +P ammo  then realy what's the point?

[Swampman]

If it's in their pocket they should.

naw not the ones who tote the ones who by and leave in in a drawer for years .

The same kind ones that buy cheap junk?

[Mike in Virginia]

Did that post go through?  I wasn't done.  But I reckon I said enough to keep it open a while longer. 

[SHOOTALL]

If it's in their pocket they should.

naw not the ones who tote the ones who by and leave in in a drawer for years .

The same kind ones that buy cheap junk?

Yep !

[Spirithawk]

The same kind ones that buy cheap junk?
 
Price has little to do with it as evident of Kimbers, Sigs, and any company you can name regardless of price all having their share of issues. Yes, there are those who truly fit the Saturday Night Special categories but they are pretty obvious from the get go. Crticizing someone elses choice, simply because it's not your choice, isn't on the list of things that makes any gun a Saturday Night Special. There are some pretty decent firearms at some decent prices just as there is high priced junk as well.  Price don't make it junk, how it's made makes it  good or makes it junk. If it works great and cost's little that's called a deal! Guns get left in drawers for a lot of reasons. Mainly because one's too bulky or heavy to carry or both.

[Swampman]

Yea, cheapest is always best.....

[Spirithawk]

Yea, cheapest is always best.....

You have a bad habbit of attributing your words and opinions to others. No, cheapest is not usualy the best but that doesn't always make it the worst either. You also like to attribute moderate prices to being the cheapest. Well Swamp, if that's the case then tell us all why you bought a cheap LC9 and not a Kimber, Sig, Colt, ect? Heck, the LC9 is even one of Ruger's "cheapest" they offer !

[Swampman]

I bought an LC9 because it's the only quality product in it's class.

[Spirithawk]

I bought an LC9 because it's the only quality product in it's class.

Who you trying to kid? Hmmmmm, the extractor, extractor spring and a pin that appears to hold it all together were blown out of the gun, struck in the face in several places by "shrapnel" which turned out to be these parts, they have seen several LC9's with the same failure, LC9 has a plastic frame. Yeahhhhhhh buddy!!!!! That screams quality don't it? Guess it's ok if you don't mind a $400 single shot that could blind you if you pull the trigger. Guess your idea of quality is diferant  just as long as it pertains to your personal choice as opposed to that of others. 

[Swampman]

No need to just make stuff up.  I don't mind if you like junk guns.  That's your bag.  The LC9 is the only quality product in it's class.

[Spirithawk]

I'll leave the making stuff up to you. What I quoted was taken directly off  several forums, including Ruger's home site and it's there for anyone who chooses to look. The info can be found elsewhere with a click of a mouse. On the other hand, your argument is merely your opinon, as usual, and as usual with absolutely nothing to back it up. And as to what I like and don't like..... my money....my choice.....and as much as that galls you, not your's !
 
Anyone doubting it here's some advice taken off yet another forum....It definitely does not seem to be all of the LC9s but if the number of the posts on the various firearms forums count for anything (along with my LC9 that didn't last long enough to warm up my trigger finger), there are a lot of them that have extractor problems. Google "Ruger LC9 extractor problems" and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Swampman]

Laughable at best.....thanks    I posted pics.....

[Spirithawk]

Laughable at best.....thanks    I posted pics.....

ROFLMAO! And you're the one being laughed at. As to pics...1 pic of a problem long since fixed proves what exactly? Buy a dictionary and look up opinion! LOL

[Swampman]

No reason to believe the problem is fixed.  It only happened a week or so ago.  Just not interested in ultra cheap firearms.

[Spirithawk]

No reason to believe the problem is fixed.  It only happened a week or so ago.  Just not interested in ultra cheap firearms.

Excuse me if I don't take you for your word. A link to proof and cause would be nice. Something you keep side stepping. But lets say there still is a problem with the PMR30, so what? Ruger as well as others, as you darn well know but choose to ignore, have their share of problems too. Big deal! Realy don't care what you're interested in. Just wondering why you insist your opinion is the only one that matters. Think you're more interested in baiting and trying to get folks to take your word that Ruger's copy is better than the original. Some might agree Swamp, but there's thousands that don't so get over it. You're bashing isn't changing any minds. Tell you what, name me one company that hasn't had an issue at some point with one of their firearms. Bet ya can't cause none exists! As long as baiting is your sole agenda you're best just ignored.

[Swampman]

No Ruger hasn't had their share of problems.  But hey RG & Davis make a great guns too.  Maybe you could get one of them to go with that Keltec.

[Spirithawk]

No Ruger hasn't had their share of problems.  But hey RG & Davis make a great guns too.  Maybe you could get one of them to go with that Keltec.

Funny, you're the only one who thinks so. Denial, denial, denial and more denial when faced with the truth yet it don't change the truth one bit. Cheap shots and denial is all you got Swamp but then when has fact ever been your strong point?  YAWNNNNNNNN! Bye Bye!  
 

 
http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/23_4/features/Compact-Self-Defense-Pistols5868-1.html
 
http://pikimal.com/pistols-and-revolvers/vs/kel-tec-pf-9-pistol-2/ruger-lc9-pistol-2
 
http://www.homedefenseweapons.net/914-compare-pf9-and-lc9/
 
http://www.homedefenseweapons.net/kel-tec-pf9-review/
 
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=34794
 
http://tacticalgunreview.com/blog/2011/10/ruger-lc-9-vs-keltec-pf9-review/
 
http://gunletter.blogspot.com/2011/05/pf-9-vs-lc9.html
 
 
 
 

 

[keith44]

No reason to believe the problem is fixed.  It only happened a week or so ago.  Just not interested in ultra cheap firearms.

Excuse me if I don't take you for your word. A link to proof and cause would be nice. Something you keep side stepping. But lets say there still is a problem with the PMR30, so what? Ruger as well as others, as you darn well know but choose to ignore, have their share of problems too. Big deal! Realy don't care what you're interested in. Just wondering why you insist your opinion is the only one that matters. Think you're more interested in baiting and trying to get folks to take your word that Ruger's copy is better than the original. Some might agree Swamp, but there's thousands that don't so get over it. You're bashing isn't changing any minds. Tell you what, name me one company that hasn't had an issue at some point with one of their firearms. Bet ya can't cause none exists! As long as baiting is your sole agenda you're best just ignored.

My benchmarks for junk guns is a recall of a model line with offer of replacement of a different line.  That is when even the factory admits they put something out that had issues in the design or material.  There are good and bad in MOST product lines.

[SHOOTALL]

No Ruger hasn't had their share of problems.  But hey RG & Davis make a great guns too.  Maybe you could get one of them to go with that Keltec.

or the fine Raven 

[drdougrx]

Evan Marshall suggests that all new gun releases require a year of "consumer testing" to flush the bugs out.  These days, I keep that in mind for everything I buy.....