Compact 9 mm's

[Swampman]

Could you let us know which ones on swampman's list are the cheap junk guns.

Keltec and I wouldn't own a Kimber.

[Spirithawk]

Swamp loves to quote Jeff Quinn about Kel Tec to try and give his Kel Tec bashing substance soooooo I thought, hmmmmmmmm, can't beat him so why not join him? So, even though I put more weight into actual owners views that have actualy owned a firearm long enough to know it well, here's Jeff Quinns review of the Kel Tec PF-9 and his comments about Kel Tec in general. Seems he likes Kel Tec;
http://www.gunblast.com/Kel-Tec9mm.htm
Of course Swamp would like you to believe that a gun he has owned a very, very short time is much more reliable than a gun that someone else has owned  for over 3 years and that has already proven itself by seeing heavy use, is carried every day 365, and which has performed flawlessly with a wide range of ammo both grain and manufactuer wise. Can't quite figure his reasoning there but he seems to hate it because it cost less than his. One thing I don't put much stock in is the "opinion" of someone who's not only never owned a particular firearm, whom has never even fired one, and who ignores the opinions of those who have. Please pardon me if I'm wrong but I just don't see much value in such an opinion.
 

[Swampman]

I could care less about what Jeff Quinn says.  I don't see much value in the cheapest thing you can buy.  I ignore the opinions of those who think cheapest is best.

[Spirithawk]

I could care less about what Jeff Quinn says.  I don't see much value in the cheapest thing you can buy.  I ignore the opinions of those who think cheapest is best.

Funny, not what you been saying since you kept refering to him multiple times. Guess you only care about his opinion only if it might suit your's but not when it don't. 
 
 As to the cheapest you can buy why does that apply to Kel Tec yet not to your precious LC9 as it's pretty cheap itself? Guess a bargain only applies if it's your's. 

[Swampman]

I refered to the picture of his Keltec that blew up about a week ago using factory ammo.  That is all.

[Spirithawk]

I refered to the picture of his Keltec that blew up about a week ago using factory ammo.  That is all.

So you say but you also refered to his Youtube videos did you not? Every time you were asked about your sources the only one you ever actualy named was Quinn correct? As to the PMR30 you keep skirting the issue when asked to post an actual link as to when it happened and how. Even if it did happen last week can you tell us if it was a model made before or after the upgrade or, if an early model, had it been upgraded and still had issues? If an early model, with no upgrades, then your complaint is pretty meaningless in regards to  any PMR30 now made. All the info I've found says none with the upgrade have had a problem since upgrades have been made. You insinuate that's wrong so prove it is all I've asked. Can you? Then you use that one past issue as an excuse to trash a whole company even though various models of your pet Rugers have been known to blow up as well which you choose to ignore or blame on the owners though Ruger has admitted foul ups on it's part. Tell us Swamp, why is a pic of a blown Kel Tec any worse than one of a blown Ruger? Hmmmmm?  Why?

[Brett]

I've seen U-tube videos of everything from Colt ARs to Ruger Black Hawks that suffered catastrophic failures.  Doesn't mean Squat. 

I don't need a Mercedes-Benz to get to the grocery store my PT Cruiser (which has over 182k miles on it by the way) will get me their just fine.   I also don't need a Kimber Custom to protect my hide as my Kel-Tec will do just fine. 

PS.: By the way Swampy was your LC9 part of this safety recall... or was that before you bought yours?  http://www.ruger.com/LCPRecall/

P.PS.: I have also read that Ruger had a run of LC9s that the front sites would fly off of. 

Don't get me wrong... I'm in no way bashing Ruger firearms.  In fact I own a couple and think a lot of them.  I'm just pointing out that every manufacturer has a few oops from time to time.

[Brett]

Have any of you Kel-Tec haters actually ever fired one or are you using the same logic a two year old uses when introduced to a new food.  "I hate mushrooms, they're yucky!" even tho they have never tasted a mushroom.

[jcn59]

I have Rugers 'n Lugers & just about everything else.  I like 'em all; some better than others, though.

[Swampman]

I don't think anyone has been injured by a front sight coming off if any ever did.  I haven't seen or mentioned any Youtube videos, just the picture of the gun that blew up.

[Brett]

I don't think anyone has been injured by a front sight coming off if any ever did. 

Maybe not but you would think a high quality, $400 gun like that wouldn't have parts flying off of it would you? 

How about when extractors fly off of them?   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YwPu44yX1s&feature=plcp

jnc59, please send my dog home, I miss her.    Just kidding... Is that a Plott hound in your avatar?

[jcn59]

There was a time, not too long ago, when men took pride in their abilities and skills to make some "final adjustments" in less than perfect production items.   Now it is a "complaint".  I know that there are times I've been guilty myself. 

Ours is the best country that ever existed, not because of geography or natural resources, but because of the men and women who worked together in times of need to make us strong.  It is wimpy to argue if one American handgun is better than another.

[Savage]

Can't believe this "Thread Turned Debate" has gone on this long. I guess the need to defend one's choices, or deride those of others is greater than I thought.
Savage

[keith44]

Can't believe this "Thread Turned Debate" has gone on this long. I guess the need to defend one's choices, or deride those of others is greater than I thought.
Savage

 

[Brett]

I hold no ill feelings about Ruger or anyone's choice of weapons.  I do however get annoyed when someone sights an isolated incident, a questionable one at that, then makes a blanket statement about a product or manufacturer based on it.

Those who are deriding Kel-tecs the loudest on this forum have zero experience with them having never even fired one let alone owned one for a significant length of time.  Not only that but they go on to essentially call us who do own them stupid for wasting our money and risking our lives by buying such cheap pieces of crap. 

[Savage]

I hold no ill feelings about Ruger or anyone's choice of weapons.  I do however get annoyed when someone sights an isolated incident, a questionable one at that, then makes a blanket statement about a product or manufacturer based on it.

Those who are deriding Kel-tecs the loudest on this forum have zero experience with them having never even fired one let alone owned one for a significant length of time.  Not only that but they go on to essentially call us who do own them stupid for wasting our money and risking our lives by buying such cheap pieces of crap. 

I agree completely. As previously stated, I carry at least one KT daily. Only one opinion matters to me, and that's mine---------and it's based on actual experience.
Savage

[Spirithawk]

 
 [Only one opinion matters to me, and that's mine---------and it's based on actual experience.
Savage ]

 
Exactly!!!!!!! 

[keith44]

I hold no ill feelings about Ruger or anyone's choice of weapons.  I do however get annoyed when someone sights an isolated incident, a questionable one at that, then makes a blanket statement about a product or manufacturer based on it.

Those who are deriding Kel-tecs the loudest on this forum have zero experience with them having never even fired one let alone owned one for a significant length of time.  Not only that but they go on to essentially call us who do own them stupid for wasting our money and risking our lives by buying such cheap pieces of crap. 

I agree completely. As previously stated, I carry at least one KT daily. Only one opinion matters to me, and that's mine---------and it's based on actual experience.
Savage

Voices of reason among the chaos 


The internet is full of armchair experts who have no experience

[SHOOTALL]

Any gun can fail. A cheap gun with poor record of reliablity can defend someone . You pay you money and take your chance .

[Ladobe]

Can't believe this "Thread Turned Debate" has gone on this long. I guess the need to defend one's choices, or deride those of others is greater than I thought.
Savage

Common problem when good folks try to deal with an Internet troll when they should instead remember not to...
 

 
 

[SHOOTALL]

some pick for fun 

[keith44]

some pick for fun 

 

[Spirithawk]

Price is meaningless if it don't work. Same applies if it does. Price only means if you can or can't afford it. There are so many products out there that can fool you. Expensive ones that aren't worth a fraction of what they cost and expensive ones worth every dime. Just the same there are inexpensive ones that are junk but a few that put the much more expensive one's to shame and could cost way more if the manufacturer was greedy. I find it hard to understand some folks thinking. Everyone wants the most they can get for their money. Everyone wants a deal. Then when a company like Kel Tec offers a great product at a price most can afford they are trashed for doing so. I've heard many owners, and firearms critics, say they are easily worth twice what they cost but Kel Tec saw an opening in the market for good, reliable conceal carry firearms at a decent price and filled that nitch. Not only filled it but did a very good job of it too! Dang smart move on their part and I think many are jealous because of it.  Some people just have to be snobs to be happy I guess.

[Swampman]

Sometimes cheapest isn't always the least expensive.

[Spirithawk]

Sometimes cheapest isn't always the least expensive.

Well duhhhhh! Realy? ?
However I'll see your blanket comment and raise you one;
Sometimes expensive isn't always the best value!  See that door swings both ways.

[SHOOTALL]

Sometimes cheapest isn't always the least expensive.

Yea "it's not what you pay it's what it cost you" that was /is on a can of boiler treatment . If it cost you your life ......................... why is it the guy who pays for life insurance every year thinks a gun cost too much ? and the gun can save his life .............

[Swampman]

Cheapest is never the best value.  I don't know why a person would trust their life to a cheap POS.

[Empty Quiver]

Cheapest is never the best value.  I don't know why a person would trust their life to a cheap POS.

And you Swampy are the sole arbitor of cheap?
 
I guess HK holds little interest for you as they are too expensive. What about Kahr? Glock?  Walther? Jennings? Colts? SIG Sauer? Beretta? Give me a reading on the price points of these gun makers Swampy, any of these meet your personal idea of value?
 
As far as I'm concerned the Ruger is a cheap POS and I refuse to own one, they are ugly and clumsy as well. Life is too short to shoot crappy pistols, even if they do go bang damn near every time. I own tools but honestly have little desire to repair guns, or tune them for that matter.

[Spirithawk]

Cheapest is never the best value.  I don't know why a person would trust their life to a cheap POS.

Hate to shock you into reality but there's a lot of things you don't know. Sooooooo? Makes you human you just hate to admit it. Tell me, why are you so concerned with other people's choices? You seem to think because you like or don't like something then others not only should but that we must think as you or we're all twits. You keep repeating yourself over and over, same tired I hate Kel Tec. Yes I know because as you say you can. Could that answer be any more childish? That alone speaks volumes for your true intent.  Personaly I don't think you realy care who owns what. You're more about baiting and trolling than anything useful. If that wasn't the case then this thread would be a whole lot shorter. The my dad can whip your dad attitude is childish and more than a bit old.
 
Shootall, I've known a couple people that own expensive guns but no life insurance. Takes all kinds to make a world.

[williamlayton]

I think this statement will sum it up---and most probably stop all of this trash talk.
You do what you think is best for you.
You, alone, are responsible before God and man as to the outcome of this.
If you choose---and you should---for yourownself and all things turn out good for you then you are the smartest man alive.  NOW--if it turns out for the bad---then you will be judged as really stupid.
I do it my own way and will trust it until I am left to judgement beforeothers and am dead and cannot come to my own aid in the matter.
I know the questions and I am responsible for myownself.
Blessings