Author Topic: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.  (Read 3522 times)

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2012, 05:54:57 AM »
We must exploit our resources. So the only remaining question is how do we do that with the least amount of negative impact from an environmental and economic standpoint.
 
People need access to those resources to survive, people need a job and people need clean air & water. Its not a difficult concept to comprehend. The issues of the past all too often used by the Eco Nazis on one side and the Corp Greed on the other that clouds the ability to see these things through to a new logical conclusion. Washington is just not capable of stricking a balance here. And that is why we get all this constant huge swaying in the process, no mining & drilling permits, then we get a new administration and the permits are handed out like free candy.
 
 Washington DC politics creates these "sides". Eco Nazis on one and Corp Greed on the other becasue both interests are never balanced. So everyone digs in deep.
 
Typical political enviroment caused by Washington DC Politics BS and We The People, just have to suffer through it all.
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Offline Rex in OTZ

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2012, 06:24:44 AM »
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=nations+still+on+the+gold+standard&oq=nations+still+on+the+gold+standard&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i30.2719.13670.0.16388.34.18.0.10.10.0.2015.3593.8-1j1.2.0...0.0...1c.tfdcDZnNKF0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=59b436593f5be206&biw=1024&bih=536
 
 
 File:McKinley Prosperity.jpg William McKinley ran for president on the basis of the gold standard. 
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard
 
The gold bullion standard and the decline of the gold standard (1925–31) Commodity money is inconvenient to store and transport. Further, it does not allow a government to manipulate or restrict the flow of commerce within its dominion with the same ease that a fiat currency does. As such, commodity money gave way to representative money, and gold and other specie were retained as its backing.
Gold was a common form of money due to its rarity, durability, divisibility, fungibility, and ease of identification,[4] often in conjunction with silver. Silver was typically the main circulating medium, with gold as the metal of monetary reserve.
The gold standard variously specified how the gold backing would be implemented, including the amount of specie per currency unit. The currency itself is just paper and so has no intrinsic value, but is accepted by traders because it can be redeemed any time for the equivalent specie. A U.S. silver certificate, for example, could be redeemed for an actual piece of silver.
Representative money and the gold standard protect citizens from hyperinflation and other abuses of monetary policy, as were seen in some countries during the Great Depression. However, they were not without their problems and critics, and so were partially abandoned via the international adoption of the Bretton Woods System. That system eventually collapsed in 1971, at which time nearly all nations had switched to full fiat money.
According to Keynesian analysis, the earliness with which a country left the gold standard reliably predicted its economic recovery from the great depression. For example, Great Britain and Scandinavia, which left the gold standard in 1931, recovered much earlier than France and Belgium, which remained on gold much longer. Countries such as China, which had a silver standard, almost avoided the depression entirely. The connection between leaving the gold standard as a strong predictor of that country's severity of its depression and the length of time of its recovery has been shown to be consistent for dozens of countries, including developing countries. This may explain why the experience and length of the depression differed between national economies 
 

Offline Swampman

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2012, 09:46:38 AM »
Comment from a local.....

"Opinions from the region are running near 90% in opposition to the mine and the commercial fishing fleet is virtually all opposed.
If it happens it will dramatically effect the entire region with the majority of profits going overseas and the resulting mess left for the locals to deal with."
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2012, 09:47:44 PM »
Swampman:  You are drinking Gilliams Kool-aid.  Don't know where you got your information, but it is not, repeat, not correct.  They put this issue on the ballot in the local area.  They set the election to a time when they knew the bulk of the pro Pebble people would be out Moose hunting to fill the freezer.  After the election, the ballots were counted, and the non Pebble had one vote more than the pro Pebble people.  Just one vote, in a rigged election, during Moose season when mostly greenies are in town.  If you go to the area you will find far more people are for the mine than are against it.  I've talked to the people that live there.  They need jobs.
 
All those commercial fishermen that are screaming are not Alaskans. Oh they claim to be, they have a PO Box in Juneau, or Dillingham.  They live in Seattle, and Portland, when they are not fishing.  Their families do not live in Alaska.  Oh the original owner of the permit may have lived in Alaska, at one time.  But those licenses have been passed down from father to son, or sold.  Today, none of those people live up here.
 
Alaska will not let a mining company work an area with out reclaimation when the mining is done.  So there will not be any mess to deal with.  We currently have Mines working all over the state, with no, or very little opposition.  So what is differant about this mine?  It's just this one rich millionaire from California, don't want this mine next to his fishing lodge.  He started this whole opposition thing and has spent millions spreading lies and false claims, like the idea that the pople in the area are opposed to the mine.  Take my word for it they are not, the people living in the area need the work.  Steps are being put in place to make sure the fish for Bristol Bay are not harmed.  TV Crews went through out the area paying people to stand in front of the camara and say they are opposed to Pebble, then the people laugh about how they got paid.  Not realizing they are hurting their own cause.  But they got the money, that is all they care about.
 
But something no one is talking about outside Alaska, and the fishing fleet guys are denying it.  They are over fishing, and the by-catch is huge.  By-catch gets dumped over the side.  The actual By-catch is far larger than what is being reported.  This year the King return is so low, Fish and Game is not allowing King Salmon to be caught and kept, through out South Central.  Here in the Interior it is the same, we have no Kings returning to the Tanana, Chena, Salcha, Good Pasture, Delta, or Wood Rivers.  The Red Salmon Run is the lowest ever recorded.  The Chums are low as well.  Not enough fish of any type have made it up the Yukon to replinish the runs for future generations.  Canada has reported no Salmon have made it into Canadian Waters.  They are talking legal action to stop the Amercian Fishing Fleet.  They are saying we have violated the treaty we have with Canada to allow sufficiant fish to make it to Canadian Waters.  All the fish are being caught out in Salt Water by the commercial fishing fleet.  Seven more years and there will not be any fish to be caught, or to protect anyway.
 
Seattle and Portland are screaming that this legal action against the Fishing Fleet will devastate their economy.  What about us Alaskans?  There is not enough fish for the people of Alaska to fill their freezers for the coming winter.  And those folks don't have grocery stores to go and buy fish.  We can no longer run our fish wheels over night.  We have to man the fish wheel any time it is running, so we can immediately return any Kings to the river unharmed.  A good friend had his Fish Wheel running for seven hours.  He caught about half the Reds he usually catches, and only one King.  Normally he would have had 60 to 70 Kings in that period.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2012, 10:32:25 PM »
These aren't the jobs we need.  Ruining our hunting grounds and fishing streams will mean the loss of everything that is dear to us.  Even the attempted restorations are sterile and lack healthy diversity.  We've ruined enough in our lust for money.

 Right on. We need to put a stop to farming, for the same reasons.  ::)
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2012, 10:42:06 PM »
Gold is the best conductor of electricity, most computers have about $100 worth of gold in them.  It is used on delicate curcuits to keep down heat and resistance.  Copper, well, you know what that is used for.  One can't live in modern societies without these minerals.  Mining, manufacturing, and development can take place with reasonable environmental responsibility today.  We have the technology to make this happen today.  Drilling and mining will all help get this economy back up.  Like Sourdough said, we also need to build the railroad to Alaska. 

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2012, 06:29:08 AM »
8.2% current unemployment rate and its been as high as 10% since obama took office and never lower than 8% for 41 months. In addition, if we add in this,  those who's unemployment benefits have run-out, the number is near 20%. GDP is on a 1.5% growth rate and we need 2% GDP rate just to hold the rate of unemployment flat at the current rate of 8.2%. The countries federal budget deficit is in excess of $1trillion dollars annually and the debt is near $16 trillion.
 
I think its important for the obama administration to put this on the scale and come to a balanced conclusion. Their current approach as it relates to mining and drilling is killing jobs and tax revenues.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2012, 10:15:55 AM »
8.2% current unemployment rate and its been as high as 10% since obama took office and never lower than 8% for 41 months. In addition, if we add in this,  those who's unemployment beefits have run-out, the number it near 20%. GDP is on a 1.5% growth rate and we need 2% GDP rate just to hold the rate of unemployment flat at the current rate. The countries federal budget deficit is in excess of $1trillion dollars the the debt is near $16 trillion.
 
I think its important for the obama administration to put this on the scale and come to a balanced conclusion. Their current approach as it relates to mining and drilling is killing jobs and tax revenues.

 
C4. Good post Sir, ever bit 20 % by now. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2012, 02:20:12 PM »
These aren't the jobs we need.  Ruining our hunting grounds and fishing streams will mean the loss of everything that is dear to us.  Even the attempted restorations are sterile and lack healthy diversity.  We've ruined enough in our lust for money.

 Right on. We need to put a stop to farming, for the same reasons.  ::)
Farming is good for hunting.....you knew that ....right?  I'm opposed farming public land.
 
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2012, 02:33:49 PM »
We do farm much of our public hunting land here in Minnesota.
 
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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2012, 02:37:21 PM »
As I mentioned public land shouldn't be farmed.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2012, 03:49:52 AM »
Without farming/food plots, our deer population would be significantly lower than it is today. There are more deer today than anytime in recorded history thanks to farming/food plots.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2012, 06:40:06 AM »
Our public hunting grounds are farmed for just that reason. Food plots for the wildlife to survive the harsh winters here. BTW my friend has an old gravel mine on his hunting land, fishing, water for game, with a few food plots around it. A true hunters paradice.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Victor3

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2012, 10:14:18 AM »
These aren't the jobs we need.  Ruining our hunting grounds and fishing streams will mean the loss of everything that is dear to us.  Even the attempted restorations are sterile and lack healthy diversity.  We've ruined enough in our lust for money.

 Right on. We need to put a stop to farming, for the same reasons.  ::)
Farming is good for hunting.....you knew that ....right?  I'm opposed farming public land.

 So you hunt in cornfields that have ruined (displaced) hunting grounds and fishing streams?
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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2012, 10:54:29 AM »
No, I hunt in the forest.  We don't have corn fields.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2012, 12:34:23 PM »
We have a big flood control area near my house.  40 years ago I lived on a homestead our in the middle of what is now the flood plain.  Few Moose were there then.  They were consentrated along the river which was the boundry of the homestead.  Seldom seen Moose far from the river.
 
Today, the Army Corps Of Engineers, contract a farmer to sow Oats, and Barley across the plain.  Moose have increased ten fold in the area.  It's nothing to see 18 to 30 Moose out there at any time during the rut.  In August before the season opens we will see mostly cows and calves out there.  Then during the season, they disappear.  When the season ends the end of September, they are back along with the Bulls.  This helps save the brouse along the river till winter.
 
As for where this mine will be, it's up above treeline.  Moose only pass through areas like that.  As for the Caribou, they have been seen running through the work areas of other mines, dodging trucks and equipment.  They don't care as long s they are not harmed by the equipment, they pretty much ignore it.  I've had Caribou stop and look at a dozer I was operating.  They got curious, like Antalope do.  They then come up and to within 50 yards of me, just watching the dozer.  One would break off and circle to get down wind.  Then spook and take off.  The rest would follow.  Do not anticipate any problems with wildlife with this mine.  Foxes will be running through camp just like they do at every other camp.  Bears (Grizzlies) may be a problem, till a few get shot and they learn to stay away.  Wolves, and Coyotes, will be a problem.  Coming into camp to scavenge anything they can find.  If surprised they will attack. 
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2012, 12:48:55 PM »
All that posion will run downhill and kill everything it touches.  It's really nasty and highly toxic stuff.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline mcbammer

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2012, 12:55:26 PM »
We have a big flood control area near my house.  40 years ago I lived on a homestead our in the middle of what is now the flood plain.  Few Moose were there then.  They were consentrated along the river which was the boundry of the homestead.  Seldom seen Moose far from the river.
 
Today, the Army Corps Of Engineers, contract a farmer to sow Oats, and Barley across the plain.  Moose have increased ten fold in the area.  It's nothing to see 18 to 30 Moose out there at any time during the rut.  In August before the season opens we will see mostly cows and calves out there.  Then during the season, they disappear.  When the season ends the end of September, they are back along with the Bulls.  This helps save the brouse along the river till winter.
 
As for where this mine will be, it's up above treeline.  Moose only pass through areas like that.  As for the Caribou, they have been seen running through the work areas of other mines, dodging trucks and equipment.  They don't care as long s they are not harmed by the equipment, they pretty much ignore it.  I've had Caribou stop and look at a dozer I was operating.  They got curious, like Antalope do.  They then come up and to within 50 yards of me, just watching the dozer.  One would break off and circle to get down wind.  Then spook and take off.  The rest would follow.  Do not anticipate any problems with wildlife with this mine.  Foxes will be running through camp just like they do at every other camp.  Bears (Grizzlies) may be a problem, till a few get shot and they learn to stay away.  Wolves, and Coyotes, will be a problem.  Coming into camp to scavenge anything they can find.  If surprised they will attack.
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Offline Nuke41

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2012, 02:07:29 PM »
 
 
Before you jump behind this you should do some research on acid mine tailings and how they must be maintained in perpetuity.  Our oldest son lives in Colorado and old mine tailing damns continue to threaten the Arkansas River.  The lakes of tailings from copper mines become pits of mild liquid sulfuric acid.  Once the mines close the tailing damns become the problem of the state and they won’t go away, ever.
 
 

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2012, 05:39:11 PM »
You don't hunt forrest swammy. You are hunting large fields of cultivated trees.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2012, 06:44:35 PM »
No, I hunt in the forest.  We don't have corn fields.

 You could have hunted forest, grassland and marshes covering 22,000 square miles in the Central Valley of CA 150 years ago, or fished in the largest lake (Tulare) West of the Mississippi. It's dry now, and if you hunt in the Valley today, you're likely to step on a tomato. Hard to argue rationally that farming didn't wipe out most hunting/fishing areas in the Valley.
 
 Fact of the matter is there are only three avenues to create new wealth; agriculture, natural resources and manufacturing. We're giving up manufacturing and importing more and more of our food from China now.
 
 So what does that leave us with?
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Offline srussell

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2012, 09:48:48 PM »
KY. did very well re claiming land that was mined. introduced elk and they are doing better than anyone hoped. so you can do both .

Offline Swampman

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2012, 11:02:48 PM »
As long as it's not on public land then I'm ok with it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Nuke41

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2012, 05:43:53 AM »
KY. did very well re claiming land that was mined.

There’s a big difference between coal and pyrites mine remediation.  Coal mines don’t leave damned up tailings that consist of trillions of gallons of liquid acid and heavy metals waste.  Acid tailing waste must be maintained forever; can the citizens of Alaska be sure that the wastes left behind won’t be an environmental disaster 10, 100, 1000 or 10000 years after the mine shuts down?
 

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2012, 01:04:01 PM »
Mcbammer:  No, the fishing is only half of what the fight is about.  Trout Unlimited got into the fuss and is only pushing the fish side.  But there is a big fuss going on about the wildlife also.  It's both a bunch of non-sense.  There are other mines doing the same thing, and no one is making a fuss about them.  Like I said before there is a multi-millionare who has spent millions to get this mine stopped.  And the permits have noty even been applied for.   
 
He is spreading a bunch of lies, and false information about the mine.  He talks about the big dam they are going to build.  About the big toxic lake that will be created.  About how they are going to strip back all the soil and dig up all the mountain tops.  Funny how he knows their plans when they themselves have not decided as to what knid of operation they are going to use.  This guy has been spreading these lies for three years now.  The mine operators are just now applying for the permits.  They still have not decided as to wheater to use strip mining or to bore into the mountain following the veins of ore.  So everything you have heard are just lies so far, Pebble has not released the information yet.  Nor have any permits been applied for before last month.
 
Funny how everybody in the lower 48 knows how to run Alaska better than the people that live here.  We have seen the stupid mistakes other states have made with mining, and are deternined not to do those kind of things here. 
 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline mcbammer

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2012, 02:25:30 PM »
Mcbammer:  No, the fishing is only half of what the fight is about.  Trout Unlimited got into the fuss and is only pushing the fish side.  But there is a big fuss going on about the wildlife also.  It's both a bunch of non-sense.  There are other mines doing the same thing, and no one is making a fuss about them.  Like I said before there is a multi-millionare who has spent millions to get this mine stopped.  And the permits have noty even been applied for.   
 
He is spreading a bunch of lies, and false information about the mine.  He talks about the big dam they are going to build.  About the big toxic lake that will be created.  About how they are going to strip back all the soil and dig up all the mountain tops.  Funny how he knows their plans when they themselves have not decided as to what knid of operation they are going to use.  This guy has been spreading these lies for three years now.  The mine operators are just now applying for the permits.  They still have not decided as to wheater to use strip mining or to bore into the mountain following the veins of ore.  So everything you have heard are just lies so far, Pebble has not released the information yet.  Nor have any permits been applied for before last month.
 
Funny how everybody in the lower 48 knows how to run Alaska better than the people that live here.  We have seen the stupid mistakes other states have made with mining, and are deternined not to do those kind of things here.
Its  my   understanding   the  mine   will  be   small  ,  somthing   like   100  acres.   Shouldnt   be   hard  to   reclaim.   

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2012, 03:28:47 AM »
Its kinda funny how easily the lefts lies are exposed. That is why the left got control of the media.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2012, 04:29:28 AM »
It's the run off that kills everything.  That cannot be stopped.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2012, 02:58:32 PM »
In the old days the run off was the problem, and it killed a lot of things not just fish.  But with todays technology the run off can be controled, or eliminated.  Today's mining techniques have advanced far beyond what was done back in the late 1800s and the early 1900s. 
 
We can not live without copper, it's used in almost every thing we do.  The enviromentalist movement shows a map of the world where copper is found.  Take a guess where the largest deposits are located.  Africa, where corruption controls everything.  There are vertually no regulations for mining in most of Africa.  Corrupt money controls everything that happens.  Are we going to send miners there to rape the land, and create hazards like we had in this country back in 1900.  Also like oil, there will be a huge transfer of wealth, from the US to who ever does the mining.  Can we afford another great removal of jobs from this country?  Most likely the organizations that currently control the oil.   
 
This is currently looking like the largest Copper deposit in the world.  This will not be a small mine.  It will start out small, but will rapidly expand as technology advances, and more areas are explored. 
 
This country can not afford to lose this mine.  Alaska can not afford to lose this mine.  If the EPA watershed regulations are used to stop this mine, then the same regulations can and will be used to stop all future construction nation wide.  All it will take is to have one disgruntaled person or environmental group to make a complaint to the EPA.  That means Bridges, Roads, Malls, Office Buileings, Apartment Buildings, even Homes.  The state is trying to build a road in Northern Alaska, to one of the village and oil drilling areas.  Right now a few environmental people are trying to get the EPA to use the same regulations, to shut construction down.  They are saying that this will damage the watershed.  Not that there is a potential for damage, just like with Pebble they are saying this will distroy the watershed.  Which is false, just like with Pebble. 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Possible $500 billion gold mine found, epa says ya can't have it.
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2012, 11:21:14 PM »
So large quanities of posion and toxic run off draining into the water shed won't hurt it?
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~