Author Topic: Are our Beloved Handi Rifles headed to the Endangered Species List? (Read 9047 times)

kennyd · « **Reply #60 on:** August 30, 2012, 04:03:01 PM »

This may be the thread that will not die.

Making a barrel for a bolt may be slightly cheaper than the lugs on a handi. A bolt is mostly lathe work, vs. mill work on a break action. The steel cost, wood cost would be the same. Given that a lot of people are not "gun people" they may not appreciate the shorter total length, simplicity of having one shot only. Remember when a lot of us wanted a lever because that is what we saw on TV? Now wanna be hunters look to their heros who use a bolt. And the salesman will still point you to a package. The only handi packages I have seen were priced around $400

wtxbadger · « **Reply #61 on:** August 31, 2012, 12:52:14 PM »

My first H&R was a 20 ga. bought in 1980 when I first started hunting and got just as many dove and quail with it as anyone else hunting with pumps and semi-autos. I knew they made rifles but followed the pack and shot bolt actions for quite a few years. They were okay but it seemed like something just was not right. Then I bought my first Handi Rifle and have been a dedicated fan ever since. Now I have a 7-08, 30-30, 243, 223, and my favorite of all the 45-70. Just can't help but grin from ear to ear when I shoot that 45-70. All of my Handi's are ejectors and I will not own an extractor.

If they really want to turn things around they will need to expand their line of cartridges, offer both extractor and ejector, and possibly have more than one grade of rifle and shotgun. A basic rifle/shotgun that is affordable to most folks and a higher grade/line with better quality wood, bluing, and fit and finish to compete with other makers of single shots.

Oh well, in the meantime I am holding onto the ones I have and enjoying them.

wtxbadger

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #62 on:** September 02, 2012, 01:44:00 AM »

With over 3000 views it looks like this is an interesting topic. who would have thought?

Ranger99 · « **Reply #63 on:** September 03, 2012, 08:19:58 AM »

another piece of america. . . .

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #64 on:** September 03, 2012, 10:21:57 AM »

If H & R wants a future for the Handy Rifle they better do something about both quality and quality control.

ihookem · « **Reply #65 on:** September 03, 2012, 02:47:34 PM »

Guns of america has Savage Axis for 275-350 or so. The Handis are 260 to 319, give or take.

Not the 10th Man · « **Reply #66 on:** September 04, 2012, 02:11:05 PM »

I like most kids growing up in the South had my share of experience with the Handi-Rifles. Good farm guns that certainly killed their fair share of snakes, squirrels, rabbit, wild dogs, opossum, etc. I often think I would like one, just because they break down, and I kinda like the single shot thing, and the reliability. I thought I wanted to get into TC's, but the more I learned the less impressed I was. It seems that of the Single Shots, the H&R has always been the work horse, quietly pulling it's share of the load without fanfare or complaint.

I would agree that to survive, they need to either drop their prices, or up their quality. With many of the crappy synthetic stocks, the "Survivor" models, etc. like they're trying to hang with the "Tacti-cool" crowd- and it's just not their specialty.

I would love to see them offer a nicer stock- Like a straight gripped stock of a decent quality, such as on the BC series, and work the multi-caliber, and rare caliber angle a bit more. There just aint much out there for .35 Whelen, .358 Winchester, .454 Casull rifle chamberings, .357 Max, .444, .445 Supermag, etc. And for crying out loud, bring back the Ejector!

To me the H&R is becoming more of a niche gun, rather than the standard issue farm gun it was in days long gone. The utilitarian buyer at large is just going to give their money for the bolt guns. Hell, that's what I'd do, if I wasn't a reloader, casting my own, and overall constantly farting around with my guns. So...I think they need to corner that niche a little harder. If my $300 bought me a BC in .454 Casull, with ejector, I would quickly be parting with some money. Instead they're about $450 right now and with extractor, which always makes me pause long enough to think of a different option.

I figger I'm just urinating into the wind here, but maybe somebody with some influence will see this thread and take it into consideration.

dwalk · « **Reply #67 on:** September 04, 2012, 02:40:25 PM »

Quote from: jeepmann1948 on July 26, 2012, 11:09:26 PM

Been talking to several gun dealers here in Texas and New Mexico. Their sales of Handi's have dropped off greatly.The common opinion is the entry level, ie ,cheap bolt guns are rapidly causing its demise.
I know we are a dedicated, loyal following but unfortunately there is not enough to keep H&R in business. They depend on the casual hunter / shooter for their volume of sales.
Your thoughts please
Thanks
George

i would believe the increased in popularity of the AR would greatly influence the decline in single-shot, break-tops than most other factors.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #68 on:** September 06, 2012, 03:11:21 PM »

After reading singleshots reply on page 6 of the Illion Satisfaction post, I fear this kind of publicity will speed the negative reaction of Handi buyers.

clearanceman · « **Reply #69 on:** December 30, 2012, 05:36:27 AM »

I was thinking the same thing. I have three receivers and several barrels. But I got them when they were just over $200. Barrels are still cheap and the gun offers a lot of options. I really like how the latest barrel I got went to an extractor from an ejector. Would I buy a new one now? Not sure. Handis still offer some things cheap bolt actions don't. Multiple calibers, more compact, two different stock lengths. a 22 inch barrel handi with a youth stock is one compact gun. Also, I've had good luck putting a bullet holder on the stock so it's there for quick re-loading. I also like with the synthetic stocks and blued barrels if you mess one up in the woods cosmetically you don't feel bad. I have a Browning A bolt Medallion and it's downright scary to take that gun out around here where every step is a steep hill, rock, tangle of briars, etc. Don't have to worry about a Handi, even in the rain. Man, these modern bullets are amazing. Been using .243. I got a barrel with .223 and got some barnes X bullets. Dead deer every time. .243 is not marginal with SST and .223 is not marginal for whitetails with a Barnes X bullet. I've got a 30-06 and I almost never shoot it anymore.

FPH · « **Reply #70 on:** December 30, 2012, 05:59:34 AM »

Quote from: jeepmann1948 on July 26, 2012, 11:09:26 PM

Been talking to several gun dealers here in Texas and New Mexico. Their sales of Handi's have dropped off greatly.The common opinion is the entry level, ie ,cheap bolt guns are rapidly causing its demise.
I know we are a dedicated, loyal following but unfortunately there is not enough to keep H&R in business. They depend on the casual hunter / shooter for their volume of sales.
Your thoughts please
Thanks
George

I have seen only one Handi offered for sale here in the TX/NM area. I grew up shooting left handed, and I see no problem using a right handed bolt gun. I did have a left handed Winchester .243 once , and I didn't notice that much difference.

clearanceman · « **Reply #71 on:** December 30, 2012, 09:49:59 AM »

The other thing to consider is they are owned by Remington now so they aren't going out of business even if they never sell another Handi rifle. I'll say this for Remington. I had a Handi that wouldn't lock even without firing and I bought it in 2005, long before Remington bought Marlin. I didn't need it really and only decided to use it this year and noticed it wouldn't stay locked and I didn't dare even fire it at all. I sent it back to them earlier this year and they didn't charge me to fix it. While it was there, I got the .223 barrel. But I was impressed that they fixed a defect for free on a gun they didn't even make.

clearanceman · « **Reply #72 on:** December 30, 2012, 01:42:44 PM »

When congress gets done screwing us, the only guns we may be allowed to own are Handi rifles.

mannyrock · « **Reply #73 on:** December 31, 2012, 07:16:30 AM »

My prediction is that sooner or later, Cerebrus will simply drop the entire Handi line. Why? Because instead of marketing the attributes of a nice single shot rifle, they have engaged in a race to the bottom, to create the cheapest thing that will shoot. Their marketing is screwed up, because they continue to think that their primary target customer base is a bunch of poor farmers, who scuffle into hardware stores with only a few dollars in their pocket to try to buy the cheapest gun they can for their son's first rifle.

I've spent most of my life in rural Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi and Virginia, and let me tell you something I have noticed. Even among the poorest people who hunter, theire is alot of pride in the guns that they use. The average deerhunter who lives in a house trailer owns a used Remington 700 BDL, not a Handi rifle.

Instead of trying to make the cheapest single shot available, H&R should go in the opposite direction and upgrade. Add nice walnut stocks, charge $90 more, and they will sell. Take a look a the beautiful Handi classic carbine in .45 long colt. They are in such demand that they are snatched up as soon as they hit a table. Why didn't they make these in .243, .308 and .30-30? They would have sold thousands of them. But no, just the odd ball pistol round.

Take a look at the situation in Mississippi. That state has tens of thousands of hunters who want a single shot rifle, in .35 or larger, to use during the revised black powder season. So why hasn't H&R brought out a Mississippi Special, in .35 Remington or .35 Whelen, with a 24 inch barrel and beautiful walnuts stocks? They would sell thousands of them.

Indiana is now allowing pistol rounds in rifles, instead of just shotgun slugs. So where it H&Rs Indiana Special? A beautiful rifle in .44 mag, stock in walnut. But no, they bring out things like the "Buffalo Classic," a beautiful rifle that not one in a thousand hunters are interested in.

And what about the Handi's in .22 mag? Are you kidding me? They only offer them in plastic stocks, with a 20 inch barrel? What's the point of that? Put them in walnut stocks with a 24 inch barrel and they would sell a ton of them.

The future is clear. Cerebus will eventually drop the Handi line. The patent designs will be sold or licensed to a Chinese company, like Jhing, who will continue to make them, at a cheaper price, but probably with even more quality control problems.

Best Mannyrock

clearanceman · « **Reply #74 on:** December 31, 2012, 09:33:38 AM »

Probably right. I guess everyone wants bolt actions, but some of the cheap bolt actions suck.

ironglow · « **Reply #75 on:** December 31, 2012, 10:20:33 AM »

I thought everyone has heard by now...Cerebus is dumping the Marlington/Remlins....
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/12/18/cerberus-is-dumping-freedom-group/

I think the problem with the current H & Rs is quality . Single shot hunters are just that..they are confident of their first shot and don't feel the need for lots of backup rounds....but they DO WANT quality, accuracy and dependability.
How Freedom Group manages H&R is up to them, and I was previously tipped off thatvthey are "bean counters" in the nature of what was doene to Harley a couple decades back.
I do believe they missed an opportunity by not standardizing fit across the line.. Buy a .243, then drop by your dealer now and then and buy another barrel..they will fit right bon without further fitting.
I think we will have single shots available, and they may or may not be H&Rs. Rossi is there, Savage once had a very nice single shot and CVA has come into the field with an excellent product.. Brno has a real beauty available..albeit costly.. Surely the gap will be filled.

BTW: Not all "entry level" bolts are junk..my Ruger American .308 is an excellent rifle. Had I been more confident of the quality factor..my .308 may well have been an H&R..

clearanceman · « **Reply #76 on:** December 31, 2012, 10:26:30 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on December 31, 2012, 10:20:33 AM

I thought everyone has heard by now...Cerebus is dumping the Marlington/Remlins....
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/12/18/cerberus-is-dumping-freedom-group/

I think the problem with the current H & Rs is quality . Single shot hunters are just that..they are confident of their first shot and don't feel the need for lots of backup rounds....but they DO WANT quality, accuracy and dependability.
How Freedom Group manages H&R is up to them, and I was previously tipped off thatvthey are "bean counters" in the nature of what was doene to Harley a couple decades back.
I do believe they missed an opportunity by not standardizing fit across the line.. Buy a .243, then drop by your dealer now and then and buy another barrel..they will fit right bon without further fitting.
I think we will have single shots available, and they may or may not be H&Rs. Rossi is there, Savage once had a very nice single shot and CVA has come into the field with an excellent product.. Brno has a real beauty available..albeit costly.. Surely the gap will be filled.

BTW: Not all "entry level" bolts are junk..my Ruger American .308 is an excellent rifle. Had I been more confident of the quality factor..my .308 may well have been an H&R..

I said SOME of the entry bolt actions suck. How about that Remington 770? BTW, I don't think of the Ruger American really as entry level unless it's $275. I though they were more like $400?

gcrank1 · « **Reply #77 on:** December 31, 2012, 10:51:22 AM »

$400 is where entry level is headed.

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #78 on:** January 01, 2013, 02:08:15 AM »

Cost of steel is steadily rising, and thus the cost of firearms is rising. The Handi has as much steel in it as any bolt, and nothing about the design lends itself to stamping, or steel/polymer composites.

We see prices rising but that's just because we've been around too long. 10 years ago I could buy a Romanian AK-47 for $299 all day long. Today it's nearly $600. Some of these new bolts are cheap and shoot good but other than the barrel, most of the bolt, and the receiver it's plastic. Others are using aluminum receivers, etc. All said the Handi probably has more steel in it than my Mossberg ATR.

So $300 is the new cheap. I paid less than $300 for my Handi in .444 marlin tax included. With the barrel exchange really it's the poor mans rifle. However that said once you start hunting with one it's all over. My mossberg hasn't seen the woods since I got the Handi. It's not muzzleloading season...don't care hunting with my .444 handi. Next summer I'm sending it off for a .243 barrel.

clearanceman · « **Reply #79 on:** January 01, 2013, 02:50:21 AM »

Quote from: Wagguy80 on January 01, 2013, 02:08:15 AM

Cost of steel is steadily rising, and thus the cost of firearms is rising. The Handi has as much steel in it as any bolt, and nothing about the design lends itself to stamping, or steel/polymer composites.

We see prices rising but that's just because we've been around too long. 10 years ago I could buy a Romanian AK-47 for $299 all day long. Today it's nearly $600. Some of these new bolts are cheap and shoot good but other than the barrel, most of the bolt, and the receiver it's plastic. Others are using aluminum receivers, etc. All said the Handi probably has more steel in it than my Mossberg ATR.

So $300 is the new cheap. I paid less than $300 for my Handi in .444 marlin tax included. With the barrel exchange really it's the poor mans rifle. However that said once you start hunting with one it's all over. My mossberg hasn't seen the woods since I got the Handi. It's not muzzleloading season...don't care hunting with my .444 handi. Next summer I'm sending it off for a .243 barrel.

I'll pass along my end of season experience. BTW, I use SST bullets in everything, I've never lost a deer on one and .243 through 30-06 they are the best performance on whitetails of any bullet I've ever tried. I haven't even tried the Superformance, I've only used the standard ones which are loaded somewhat low velocity. They hit like a sledge hammer and the .243 will likely as not stop a big deer in it's tracks. They do tear up meat though.

I have been using the barnes TTX in .223 in the tight woods near my house. It's lights out on little deer but I shot a big doe and it hit the front leg and destroyed it and entered the rib cage and did a lot of damage but I had to shoot her again 30 minutes later after I tracked her. It was a steep hill and I was aiming for the heart/lung, I don't know if the gun was off or she moved at the last minute.

There was a lot of damage, one lung was torn up but the bullet didn't exit the chest area. I was surprised she was still going since the whole rib cage was blood shot on that side, but the .243 SST would have gone through the vitals even after the leg and she would have been DOA.

Something to consider when hunting larger deer. Personally, I'm probably done with the .223 unless I know I won't shoot a big one or I got a perfect head shot or heart/lung shot. Hard to guarantee any of that. The SST in any caliber takes them down in any circumstance. I've shot over 30 deer with them and never had one run more than 60 yards. I've shot them straight on, rib cage, through the front leg and heart shot, head shot, too far back, too far forward. Whatever. Never lost one deer. They aren't suffering either, they die very quickly which is important to me, I don't want them to suffer. I don't like tracking wounded deer.

I'm not saying you should try for less than perfect shots. Sometimes I don't have perfect shots. We eat a lot of deer and if I waited for a perfect shot each time, we would not eat a lot of deer.

I know it sounds like an ad for Hornady SST but it's the best bullet I've ever used on whitetails. I just wish they would come out with one in .223.

Anyway, happy new year!

30calflash · « **Reply #80 on:** January 01, 2013, 07:17:04 AM »

Wagguy80 said it, $300 is the new cheap. A dollar isn't worth a dollar anymore. $300 is about what used leverguns start at here (Ct.), and go up quickly in price. sporterized military, rough M70's/700's et al. pull decent cash. You might find a well used Savage or Mossberg bolt for under $300, but even they are usually more.

The finish on all new lower cost firearms is far less than in the past. That's how the price is held down. Delete walnut and sub either plastic or pallet wood and that is the only way to hold down costs and produce a made in the USA hunting rifle.

A friend worked at Winchester years ago and said that the Walmart models (no frills, plastic stock) were made at a profit of less than $20 to the company. It kept their people gainfully employed when it was slow. And it only carried them for a couple years at that.

Spanky · « **Reply #81 on:** January 01, 2013, 07:46:23 AM »

Surprise surprise... Cerebus shows themselves to be nothing more than puppets.

Spanky

BUGEYE · « **Reply #82 on:** January 01, 2013, 12:50:15 PM »

I've owned two youth 20ga, two 30-30s and one .223
the .223 sucked because the extractor would only pick up the empty about 50% of the time.
the 30-30s and 20ga's were 100% I'm not into sending new guns to the factory, If they don't work, they're gone.
I love H&R break-actions, but for rimmed cartridges only.

clearanceman · « **Reply #83 on:** January 03, 2013, 03:36:42 PM »

Quote from: BUGEYE on January 01, 2013, 12:50:15 PM

I've owned two youth 20ga, two 30-30s and one .223
the .223 sucked because the extractor would only pick up the empty about 50% of the time.
the 30-30s and 20ga's were 100% I'm not into sending new guns to the factory, If they don't work, they're gone.
I love H&R break-actions, but for rimmed cartridges only.

Ejector barrels are faster but the new extractor barrels seem to be 100%. I think you can send ejector barrels back and they will convert them to extractor for free if they fail to eject sometimes.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #84 on:** January 03, 2013, 05:01:37 PM »

Quote from: clearanceman on January 03, 2013, 03:36:42 PM

I think you can send ejector barrels back and they will convert them to extractor for free if they fail to eject sometimes.

If so, no one has reported a factory conversion here yet. I've converted lots to extractors, but it's not just a simple parts swap, the underlug has to be machined.

Tim

hoytcanon · « **Reply #85 on:** January 03, 2013, 06:08:21 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on December 31, 2012, 10:20:33 AM

I thought everyone has heard by now...Cerebus is dumping the Marlington/Remlins....
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/12/18/cerberus-is-dumping-freedom-group/

I think the problem with the current H & Rs is quality . Single shot hunters are just that..they are confident of their first shot and don't feel the need for lots of backup rounds....but they DO WANT quality, accuracy and dependability.

I do believe they missed an opportunity by not standardizing fit across the line.. Buy a .243, then drop by your dealer now and then and buy another barrel..they will fit right bon without further fitting.

For an investment company, the author of that statement by Cerebus is an idiot, if I was on the board of directors that person would get fired... unless they value PR more than they do money... the statement pretty much devalues their asset in Freedom Group.
Ironglow... you are corerct... if they standardized the fit dimensions of the barrel/receiver and a barrel swap could be done with confidence by anyone, H&R sales would improve dramatically.

Quote from: mannyrock on December 31, 2012, 07:16:30 AM

My prediction is that sooner or later, Cerebrus will simply drop the entire Handi line. Why? Because instead of marketing the attributes of a nice single shot rifle, they have engaged in a race to the bottom, to create the cheapest thing that will shoot. Their marketing is screwed up, because they continue to think that their primary target customer base is a bunch of poor farmers, who scuffle into hardware stores with only a few dollars in their pocket to try to buy the cheapest gun they can for their son's first rifle.

I've spent most of my life in rural Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi and Virginia, and let me tell you something I have noticed. Even among the poorest people who hunter, theire is alot of pride in the guns that they use. The average deerhunter who lives in a house trailer owns a used Remington 700 BDL, not a Handi rifle.

Instead of trying to make the cheapest single shot available, H&R should go in the opposite direction and upgrade. Add nice walnut stocks, charge $90 more, and they will sell. Take a look a the beautiful Handi classic carbine in .45 long colt. They are in such demand that they are snatched up as soon as they hit a table. Why didn't they make these in .243, .308 and .30-30? They would have sold thousands of them. But no, just the odd ball pistol round.

Take a look at the situation in Mississippi. That state has tens of thousands of hunters who want a single shot rifle, in .35 or larger, to use during the revised black powder season. So why hasn't H&R brought out a Mississippi Special, in .35 Remington or .35 Whelen, with a 24 inch barrel and beautiful walnuts stocks? They would sell thousands of them.

Indiana is now allowing pistol rounds in rifles, instead of just shotgun slugs. So where it H&Rs Indiana Special? A beautiful rifle in .44 mag, stock in walnut. But no, they bring out things like the "Buffalo Classic," a beautiful rifle that not one in a thousand hunters are interested in.

And what about the Handi's in .22 mag? Are you kidding me? They only offer them in plastic stocks, with a 20 inch barrel? What's the point of that? Put them in walnut stocks with a 24 inch barrel and they would sell a ton of them.

The future is clear. Cerebus will eventually drop the Handi line. The patent designs will be sold or licensed to a Chinese company, like Jhing, who will continue to make them, at a cheaper price, but probably with even more quality control problems.

Best Mannyrock

Excellent point... I believe that you are 100% correct on the dysfunctional marketing drive... they are not going to beat cheap bolt actions to the bottom price point... a newbie gun owner is going to say something like; "So, for $250 I get one shot, but for $20 more I get five shots???" The economy there is not hard to figure out. They do need to start marketing the benefits of a single shot rifle and invest a little in fit & finish.

ironglow · « **Reply #86 on:** January 04, 2013, 12:48:26 AM »

Quote from: clearanceman on December 31, 2012, 10:26:30 AM

Quote from: ironglow on December 31, 2012, 10:20:33 AM
I thought everyone has heard by now...Cerebus is dumping the Marlington/Remlins....
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/12/18/cerberus-is-dumping-freedom-group/

I think the problem with the current H & Rs is quality . Single shot hunters are just that..they are confident of their first shot and don't feel the need for lots of backup rounds....but they DO WANT quality, accuracy and dependability.
How Freedom Group manages H&R is up to them, and I was previously tipped off thatvthey are "bean counters" in the nature of what was doene to Harley a couple decades back.
I do believe they missed an opportunity by not standardizing fit across the line.. Buy a .243, then drop by your dealer now and then and buy another barrel..they will fit right bon without further fitting.
I think we will have single shots available, and they may or may not be H&Rs. Rossi is there, Savage once had a very nice single shot and CVA has come into the field with an excellent product.. Brno has a real beauty available..albeit costly.. Surely the gap will be filled.

BTW: Not all "entry level" bolts are junk..my Ruger American .308 is an excellent rifle. Had I been more confident of the quality factor..my .308 may well have been an H&R..

I said SOME of the entry bolt actions suck. How about that Remington 770? BTW, I don't think of the Ruger American really as entry level unless it's $275. I though they were more like $400?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

C-man;
I didn't mean the Ruger American is absolute entry level for all actions..but it is entry level for bolt guns, mine cost me about $350.
Had I been confident the new owners of H&R were still making top quality stuff, I may well have went with again with a Handi. Cerebus should have been taking single shot rifles seriously. Frankly, I have never felt handi-capped (pun intended) with a single shot, particularly with big game. Every deer I shot was finished right there,the 2 or 3 which were not stopped with the first shot allowed plenty of time for a second. If I were to miss clean, the animal deserves to get away.
I firmly believe there is a market for a quality single shot, if it is handled corrrectly. I can Imagine a $500 to$700 rifle with enthused dealers stocking a selection of ready-to-fit barrels in stock..
CZ?Brno makes a beautiful answer, but a bit pricey for most.. Perhaps CVA will provide an answer.
http://www.cva.com/Apex-Rifle-from-CVA.php#specs

clearanceman · « **Reply #87 on:** January 04, 2013, 07:25:58 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on January 04, 2013, 12:48:26 AM

Quote from: clearanceman on December 31, 2012, 10:26:30 AM
Quote from: ironglow on December 31, 2012, 10:20:33 AM
I thought everyone has heard by now...Cerebus is dumping the Marlington/Remlins....
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/12/18/cerberus-is-dumping-freedom-group/

I think the problem with the current H & Rs is quality . Single shot hunters are just that..they are confident of their first shot and don't feel the need for lots of backup rounds....but they DO WANT quality, accuracy and dependability.
How Freedom Group manages H&R is up to them, and I was previously tipped off thatvthey are "bean counters" in the nature of what was doene to Harley a couple decades back.
I do believe they missed an opportunity by not standardizing fit across the line.. Buy a .243, then drop by your dealer now and then and buy another barrel..they will fit right bon without further fitting.
I think we will have single shots available, and they may or may not be H&Rs. Rossi is there, Savage once had a very nice single shot and CVA has come into the field with an excellent product.. Brno has a real beauty available..albeit costly.. Surely the gap will be filled.

BTW: Not all "entry level" bolts are junk..my Ruger American .308 is an excellent rifle. Had I been more confident of the quality factor..my .308 may well have been an H&R..

I said SOME of the entry bolt actions suck. How about that Remington 770? BTW, I don't think of the Ruger American really as entry level unless it's $275. I though they were more like $400?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

C-man;
I didn't mean the Ruger American is absolute entry level for all actions..but it is entry level for bolt guns, mine cost me about $350.
Had I been confident the new owners of H&R were still making top quality stuff, I may well have went with again with a Handi. Cerebus should have been taking single shot rifles seriously. Frankly, I have never felt handi-capped (pun intended) with a single shot, particularly with big game. Every deer I shot was finished right there,the 2 or 3 which were not stopped with the first shot allowed plenty of time for a second. If I were to miss clean, the animal deserves to get away.
I firmly believe there is a market for a quality single shot, if it is handled corrrectly. I can Imagine a $500 to$700 rifle with enthused dealers stocking a selection of ready-to-fit barrels in stock..
CZ?Brno makes a beautiful answer, but a bit pricey for most.. Perhaps CVA will provide an answer.
http://www.cva.com/Apex-Rifle-from-CVA.php#specs

I guess I never considered the Handi rifle to be top quality. The "bluing" is almost non existent right out of the box, I've had two actions fail to lock up even when brand new, a safety issue. I like handis partly because I am a clutz in the woods and end up scratching whatever gun I bring. I hunt in the rain a lot too. With my handis, I don't care if they get scratched or rained on, they look bad when new and they look bad when old. I always get the synthetic stock and blued barrel. I paid just over $200 and I'm not worried about it. I do wish they would spend a little more time on fit at the factory though, if I paid $300 I would be mad if the action wouldn't stay locked. Two out of three actions did this, one when the gun was fired and the other wouldn't lock up at all, even unfired. I guess I was mad that the actions wouldn't stay locked even at $215, nothing like aiming a gun at a deer, pulling the trigger and having the action open up. I missed the deer and it was the strangest feeling to have the gun fold in my hands.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #88 on:** January 04, 2013, 07:50:35 AM »

I can understand the miff, but did it ever open up when you did the pre-hunt trials? If so you knew it could happen and there are a number of things that could/should have been addressed before actually taking it hunting. Fortunately you ended up with a clean miss, it sounds like; worst case would have been a wounding shot......
IMHO, yes, probably it shouldnt have passed QC to be sold, BUT, the final QC is ALWAYS the operator, you had the final call on using it or not. Im not saying this just to blast you but as a reminder to everyone that the one pulling the trigger has already accepted the personal responsibility to act, well, responsibly.

ironglow · « **Reply #89 on:** January 04, 2013, 07:52:35 AM »

A "pop-up" action can be very disconcerting. I have never had that happen with the original barrel, only with a barrel purchased later, that's why have long suggested interchangability of barrels..even at a higher price.
When I spoke about "quality" I was speaking primarily about accuracy and function..not about the wood or bluing (actually some of their case hardened "tiger" bluing looks quite good)
My concern about quality now...is with accuracy & function.