Author Topic: Will America break our flag code to be PC??? (Read 1087 times)

powderman · « **on:** July 27, 2012, 09:54:47 AM »

Will US dip American flag at Olympic ceremony? By Todd Starnes
Published July 27, 2012
FoxNews.com A controversy is brewing over whether the United States should break tradition and dip the American flag at the opening ceremony Friday night for the London Olympics-- despite the fact that doing so would violate US Flag Code.
Scott Blackmun, the CEO of the United States Olympic Committee, told Reuters they were discussing the matter internally.
"We've talked about that a little bit and you never know what is going to happen," Blackmun told the news agency.
But later a spokesman for the USOC sent Fox News a statement calling the Reuter's report "not accurate."
"We have made an official recommendation to the athlete, not to dip the flag," the spokesperson told Fox News. "We have also spoken to the athlete advisory committee and they are in agreement."
TO READ TODD'S FULL REPORT AT FOX NEWS RADIO, CLICK HERE.
"We have traditions, Britain has traditions, everybody has traditions," Blackmun said in remarks covered by Reuters. "It is not an issue that we see as a big issue."
But Mike Buss, deputy director of the American Legion, said it is a very big issue.
"No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States," he said reading from the U.S. Flag Code. "The flag should not be dipped to any person or thing."
He said he believes dipping the American flag at Friday¹s ceremony would be un-American.
"There are many patriotic Americans who would say it is a big deal," Buss told Fox News. "You don't dip the United States flag to honor other countries."
Buss said it¹s the law  federal law  although there are no civil penalties for breaching flag etiquette.
"The bigger issue is people don't understand there are rules and regulations for proper display of the flag," he said. "Maybe the USOC didn't realize this is an issue."
TO READ TODD'S FULL REPORT AT FOX

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/07/27/will-us-dip-american-flag-at-olympic-ceremony/#ixzz21rLddGDD

Shu · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2012, 12:57:31 PM »

It is federal law not to disrespect or dip the American flag. Not just a tradition.
Presidents bowing to foriegn leaders is another story.
Politically correct can bow and kiss my you know what.

bilmac · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2012, 01:42:44 PM »

We disrespect the flag code all the time these days. Lowering it to half staff because some folks were killed in Aurora is not supposed to be done either. Couple of years ago we visited the Desert Museum in Ariz. They had the US flag and the Mexican flags flying at the same height. I left a complaint in their suggestions box. I would like to go back and see if they fixed the problem. My bet is they are still at the same height.

Scibaer · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2012, 02:15:53 PM »

there is little that gets under my skin, like disrespect for the US flag, or breaking the flag codes.
my cousin is a of high rank and command at fort devins in ma. when i started to see the flag in reverse on us army soldiers uniforms i asked him about it.. he looked into it and found the same thing i did. he said that is was supposed to reflect the flag flying into battle, i told him that a bunch of BS and he agreed. look around some time, i am seeing the flag flown in reverse order more and more.
flag code --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code
its my understanding that the flag was flown at half mast , because there was a service man that was killed in the aurora shooting, but i cant support that with facts.

JustaShooter · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2012, 02:34:06 PM »

Quote from: Scibaer on July 27, 2012, 02:15:53 PM

there is little that gets under my skin, like disrespect for the US flag, or breaking the flag codes.
my cousin is a of high rank and command at fort devins in ma. when i started to see the flag in reverse on us army soldiers uniforms i asked him about it.. he looked into it and found the same thing i did. he said that is was supposed to reflect the flag flying into battle, i told him that a bunch of BS and he agreed. look around some time, i am seeing the flag flown in reverse order more and more.
flag code --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code

I have seen that as well and it looks wrong to me, but can't find in the code where it is prohibited - can you quote the section that says you can't display it that way?

Just a (Curious) Shooter

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2012, 02:47:24 PM »

Bilmac nailed it. That old flag code is a thing if the past, judging by the way the government treats it. Today it may still be a make work task at military installations, but thats about its only significance.

Adding to bilmacs post, a lot of 3 pole setups have US, Another country and a corporate flag all at the same height. Very common.

Scibaer · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2012, 02:56:03 PM »

section 8 of the US flag code says in part ..

respect of the flag.
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

and section 7, position and manner of display says in part ..
The union is always in the upper left corner.

chiefs50 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2012, 03:12:39 PM »

Remember when the Chinese were insulted because President Bush, The First, presented their Head of State with a pair of cowboy boots emblazoned with the U.S. and Chinese flags? When the Prez violates the flag code what are the common folk going to do? The flag code is violated often by advertisers, clothing manufacturers, etc. As for flying the flag at half staff, only the POTUS or the Governor of a state can so order.

powderman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2012, 03:18:47 PM »

There have been several around here at 1/2 staff since the illegal kenyan infested the whitehouse. POWDERMAN.

Scibaer · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2012, 03:20:23 PM »

Section 7 M of the Flag Code authorizes a governor to half-staff the US flag upon the death of a present or former official of the government of the state, or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from that state who dies while serving on active duty. The President, by comparison, is authorized to half-staff the US flag by proclamation upon the death of principal figures of the US Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as well as in the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries.
A recent change allows governors to order the flag to half-staff to honor fallen soldiers from their state (see Public Law 110-41). The change was the result of governor proclamations.
Some object to this extension of a governor's authority because they feel half-staffing the flag for every fallen soldier can be seen as anti-war. Some feel that overuse cheapens the symbolic power of half-staffing the flag, traditionally reserved for political leaders.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2012, 10:46:30 PM »

All the half staffing does cheapen it. Flags around here have been half staff about a third of the time since 2001.

Foggy · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2012, 01:16:48 AM »

The reversed Flag patch is not a flag and is that way to depict the flag moving forward, it's not a flag it's a depiction. Flag pins patches and sticked are symbols not Flags and not subject to the same rules I wore the reversed Flag patvh on my right shoulder in the military and never thought it was remotely wrong in any way they where painte on the tails of our jets and haulers (fiters & cargo planes)

to reviel confusion on what is a Flag http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/flag

IMHO
Foggy

Foggy · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2012, 01:18:18 AM »

AND We SHOULD NOT DIP THE FLAG

Hit post to quick

Foggy

Scibaer · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2012, 01:44:35 AM »

the flag code makes no distinction for a flag symbol or depiction.
is does mention a replica has has rules for them too, and allows for wearing them over the heart, on the left breast.
and no time should the union be in any position other then the upper left hand corner.
and in section 8 , flag patches are infact very much subject to rules. read it .

i have a major issue the service uniform carrying a reversed flag for any reason.
and per the article 4 sections 7 & 8 is wrong to wear the flag patch in such a manner, disrespectful of the living flag and sovereign
nation is represents.

powderman · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2012, 03:53:24 AM »

When did the reverse flag on uniforms begin?? I never thought about it. POWDERMAN.

BBF · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2012, 04:10:53 AM »

Dipping your country's flag in the Olympic Opening Event doesn't imply it is subservient to any other country. To me it would indicate given respect to the Code/Ethics and Spirit of the Olympics.

When countries that are long time enemies manage to set aside their difference under the Olympic flag a dip from your own flag is a salute well deserved.

geartow · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2012, 04:34:41 AM »

If the foreigner gets re-elected I may be flying the flag upside down . As the country will dire distress and will meet the flag code.
Section 8a of the United States Flag Code states, "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

Scibaer · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2012, 10:06:50 AM »

i started noticing it in 2006, i saw a few US army uniforms with the flag in reverse then. and i am seeing it more and more all the time. just about all the soldiers i have asked, have no idea that its even backwards and are just 'following' thier units dress code and dont know that its wrong.
i think the accuse of the flag patch is supposed to represent the flag 'flying into battle' is horse crap, no such allowance is mentioned in article 4 . the flag patch when on a uniform, is considered a flag, not a replica and should be treated the same.
i have often wondered if the reversed flag somehow has a connection to the UN , cuz it would have to have been a presidential order to wear the patch in reverse.

JustaShooter · « **Reply #18 on:** July 28, 2012, 03:35:33 PM »

Quote from: Scibaer on July 27, 2012, 02:56:03 PM

section 8 of the US flag code says in part ..

respect of the flag.
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

and section 7, position and manner of display says in part ..
The union is always in the upper left corner.

Thanks Scibaer, I thought it was there but couldn't find it.

Just a Shooter

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2012, 04:43:39 PM »

Back on topic they started so did the flag get dipped or not?

Scibaer · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2012, 04:47:37 PM »

chiefs50 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 03, 2012, 11:49:25 PM »

The first time I ever saw the reverse flag patch on an Army uniform was in 1996/97 when we were deployed to Bosnia as a part of IFOR.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 04, 2012, 01:46:08 AM »

I don't worship the flag.

BBF · « **Reply #23 on:** August 04, 2012, 04:18:46 AM »

There is a fine line between worship and respect. It would appear that this line is not the same for all people.

Scibaer · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2012, 08:24:03 AM »

worship ?
so its worship to follow the US law regarding the proper use of the flag ?

crustylicious · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2012, 10:37:31 AM »

Dipping the flag is no longer part of official International Olympic Committee protocol but most countries continue to observe the tradition.

In any case it's a moot point. Obama's orders to not dip the flag were followed!

finisher · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2012, 02:08:20 PM »

Quote from: bilmac on July 27, 2012, 01:42:44 PM

We disrespect the flag code all the time these days. Lowering it to half staff because some folks were killed in Aurora is not supposed to be done either. Couple of years ago we visited the Desert Museum in Ariz. They had the US flag and the Mexican flags flying at the same height. I left a complaint in their suggestions box. I would like to go back and see if they fixed the problem. My bet is they are still at the same height.

**************
I 2nd on that. The truth is that most people have no clue.
I've asked people on numerous occasions at many civic buildings why they were flying the flag in such a manner and the explanation was usually to the effect of..."oh someone died I think..."
SOMEONE? [size=78%] Seriously people. Not a clue[/size]

BBF · « **Reply #27 on:** August 05, 2012, 02:57:22 AM »

No disrespect or broken etiquette if flags are flown side by side in the proper order.