.223 rem for whitetail deer?

[Lloyd Smale]

heck i kill deer with a 7stw and even my 338 and 8mags too. Some say why do that too! I say its none of your business what someone uses as long as its legal. Anyone who claims a .223 loaded properly wont kill a deer at a 100 yards has never tried it or is smoking crack. trick to it is the same trick needed with the 338. Put the bullet in the right spot!! I find most who preach against using the 223 or even guns like the 243 are guys that have wounded deer with them because they just cant shoot and wont admit that to themselves let alone admit it to others.

[SHOOTALL]

  Tiny deer in Virginia and the rest of the South?  Depends on where you hunt.  They are somewhat small in the swampier areas, but in the mountain areas they can be huge.
 
   The first deer my wife ever shot was when we hunted on a farm in the Blue Ridge, at Covesville, VA, which is 19 miles southwest of Charlottesville.  (600 acres).  The author John Grisham bought this several years ago.  Anyway, the liveweight (undressed) of the deer was 195 pounds, and he was not in prime shape due to his age and running around crazy in the rut.   No so tiny.
 
  Even larger deer come out of the Appalachians.  West Virginia, East Tennessee, and Southwest Virginia produce some huge deer.
 
   She shot him dead on, in the chest, at 125 yards.   I guess a .223 would have done it, if it could have pierced all of the way through his breastbone and kept on going.  Don't know for sure though.
 
Mannyrock

I shot a doe east of where you were hunting in Va that was around 160 lbs  and a 12 pointer with a 21 in spread near Blackstone va that was about 150 lbs    also a very old 8 pointer near Blackstone that was around 180 . But most of the does are arounf 90-120 lbs some less. Way I see it is big deer are good for braging on small deer drag better  and with unlimited doe tags why strain to fill the freezer 

[AtlLaw]

I find most who preach against using the 223 or even guns like the 243 are guys that have wounded deer with them because they just cant shoot and wont admit that to themselves let alone admit it to others.

What you talking 'bout Lloyd!? 
 
Well, come to think about it, I never wounded a deer with a .243 that didn't die...     Had a hard time finding a couple 'cause of no blood trail though.   

[yooper77]

I feel the only proper big game bullet in .224 caliber is the 60 grain Nosler Partition.


I have my daughter use my Thompson Center Encore 24" 223 Remington rifle barrel which is a 1-12" rifling twist. I hand load it with H-4895 and the 60 grain Nosler Partition and keep her shots under 100 yards.


This little bullet is so impressive at approx 75 yards broadside double lung, it took out the far side rib bone before it made a complete exit.


yooper77

[petemi]

I guess it's fine if all you have is one or two rifles.  Those folks usually get pretty good with them.  If you've got a lot of rifles to choose from for deer, why use something marginal?  On the other side of the coin, if you've got rifles from 7mm to 50 caliber, why use the belted magnums for eastern whitetail?  Neither choice makes any sense to me.  I do hunt varmints and small game with my "deer rifles" just to stay familiar with them.  My centerfire 22s get a lot of use, but not for deer.

Pete

[454Puma]

petemi
 It's called hunting! Challenging ones abilities.   It has been sited many times here placing a good .223 bullet in the vitals of a deer will kill it humanely.      With your mindset bow hunting should be illegal . 

[Cemo]

I haven't tried that, however Federal loads a 60 gr. Nosler bullet that works very well.

[jeepmann1948]

I have 2 Grankids that used a 223 this year. Rooster (the Grandson) shot his 5th deer at 170ish yards. Sassy's  (Grandgirl) deer was 135 or so yards. Both were one shot Dead Right There! Bullets were Remington UMC 45gr hollow point factory loads. Sassy's was sort of facing her with the body angled a bit. The Rooster's doe was a perfect side view.The picture of the full side view shows how Sassy's shot entered (pointed at with finger) and exited (just ahead of rear leg). The picture of the rib cage shows the exit wound of Rooster's shot. His shot was a little low it went thru both shoulders and the ribs, turned the lungs and heart to jelly. Both shoulders were blood shot as well.There may well be "better " Deer killing rounds out there but my Grandkids might have to respectively argue the point.

[mechanic]

I had grave reservations about the .223 also, but had to hunt with one this year.  The necropsy on the deer convinced me that at reasonable range, and with a well placed shot with a high quality bullet, (Nosler) it will do the job fine.  Took out both lungs and the heart, deer made it about 25 or so yards.  I've had them run that far with a 7mm. 
 
If you are not a good shot, and don't have the patience to wait for a good shot...a 50 BMG may not be enough.
 
Ben

[hillbill]

I had grave reservations about the .223 also, but had to hunt with one this year.  The necropsy on the deer convinced me that at reasonable range, and with a well placed shot with a high quality bullet, (Nosler) it will do the job fine.  Took out both lungs and the heart, deer made it about 25 or so yards.  I've had them run that far with a 7mm. 
 
If you are not a good shot, and don't have the patience to wait for a good shot...a 50 BMG may not be enough.
 
Ben

yup there yu go! that last part ben said. nobody in there right mind thinks 223 is a optimal deer caliber. but can it be made to work? yes and you dont need no special bullets either. a well constructed 55 grn works just fine on a broadside shot placed right.ive done it too many times to not think it works.

[BBF]

Somehow I think that 20 cal or even 17 cal CF cartridges were legal for Deer, someone sure would try it.
 
My Province requires 23 cal as a minimum and I'm glad it does.

[gr8ful]

I'm trying to work up a load using the 60gr partition (yet again).  I'll try it out this fall.

IMHO the 60gr Partition is the only route to go when shooting a .22 cal anything at deer.  Try Varget real close to max and i think you will be happy in .223.

[Savage_99]

tmar,

I am sick of topics like this where tiny bullets are promoted as "all you need" or some other baloney to torture a deer to death.

The small bullets are not legal in some places that know better and for sure

not sporting.

"Use enough gun."

[FPH]

NM requires .24 cal. or larger for center fire weapons....I prefer .30 cal.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess you can look at it like this too. How many times have you read some idiot that will claim a 243 is to light for deer or a 257 roberts or Ive even heard people bash the 25-06. Using that logic i guess we all shouold be deer hunting with 300wbys. Deer, at least the ones ive killed arent hard to kill. Ive killed them with 3220s, 223s even 22 hornets. With a proper shot they all die quickly. If we were discussing black bear or pigs it would be a differnt argument but around here anyway an average deer might go a 100lbs which is smaller then my chocolate lab. A 223 with a partition is defineately enough to cleanly take one out to 200 yards. Id bet a dime to a dollar anyone thats had one run off at those ranges and was an honest man would admit his shot placeement wasnt perfect. I shoot a lot of deer with alot of differnt guns and ive had deer hit a bit far back with the 300 wby run 300 yards. Year before last spent half the season chasing deer hit with barnes x bullets in various calibers. Personaly id take a 223 with a partition any day over a 2506 with a 100 grain barnes bullet. but then thats just my opinion from my experiences. thing is its not is a guess its not a theroy and its not based on what a bunch of guys posted in another thread on another forum. I dont post an opinion on something like this, i post experience. I wont say a gun is adequate or not adequate unless ive actually shot a few deer with it. How could you possibly claim its not adequate unless youve shot a number of deer with it and lost a good percentage of them. I have shot them with the 223 using partitions and ive ate every one of those deer. So how can you convince me its not adequate? By quoting some ft lbs of energy bs or by telling me a friend of a freind of your second cousin had two bullets bounce off one of those bionic deer that seem to frequent some hunting grounds.
 
Ill give you another example. Ill tell you about my grandpa. He hunted all his life from the time he was 15 with a 3220 winchester. Never used anything but factory ww ammo. At least not while i was alive. I know he shot at least 50 deer while i was around and he was 52 when i was born so God only knows how many he shot before that. When i first got into guns at about 16 years old i read all the gun rags i could get my hands one. That was back when it was real popular to bash the 3030. guys would have you think bullets from it bounced off of deer and if you didnt have a 270 like Jack O connor ro an 06 you were about a saddist for even being in the woods. I bought into all that bs. I was at hunting camp that year and complained to my dad about my deer rifle which was a .30 carbine. I told him it just wasnt going to cut it anymore. My grandpa was a quiet wize old man. He looked at me and said son look at that winchester right there. Its less powerful then your gun and in all the years ive hunted ive only lost one deer and that one i foolishly shot at a 150 yards when i was 17. He told me to quit paying attention to the caliber marking on the gun and pay attention to trigger control and sights and id be a much better hunter. As i grew older i saw the wisdom in his words. I dont anymore laugh at my dad with his 3030. Yes i use magnum rifles alot to shoot deer but im the last one to tell you there really needed. As a matter of fact id be the last one to tell anyone that is hunting legaly that hes wrong. If hunting with a 223 trips your trigger and you have the skill level to deploy it well then go for it. I bet your backstraps taste just as good as the ones i shot with my 300 wby. Luckily i dont live in an area where 500 lb bionic deer frequent and it takes a .30 cal bullet to cleanly take one. It would be pretty sad if i had to leave my underpowered 257 wby at home all the time  

I guess it's fine if all you have is one or two rifles.  Those folks usually get pretty good with them.  If you've got a lot of rifles to choose from for deer, why use something marginal?  On the other side of the coin, if you've got rifles from 7mm to 50 caliber, why use the belted magnums for eastern whitetail?  Neither choice makes any sense to me.  I do hunt varmints and small game with my "deer rifles" just to stay familiar with them.  My centerfire 22s get a lot of use, but not for deer.

[AtlLaw]

How many times have you read some idiot that will claim a 243 is to light for deer

HEY!     I resemble that remark!   
 

or a 257 roberts

Now I DO believe the quarter bore is about a perfect deer caliber...    That .014 of an inch makes a big difference!      
 
But, just so's I can add to my experience cash, I may work up a .223 deer load for next year.   

[Savage .250]

Some states have a minimun cal allowed to hunt big game with.  Do you know what the requirement in your state is?    Easy enough to find out.

[STRANGE1]

I keep forgetting that the deer you guys down South are shooting are about the same size as our coyotes, and I do use a 223 on coyote most of the time. I rember the first deer I saw killed in VA., a swamp deer, and the guy was so proud of his big buck, and I`m thinking that`s about the size of our young of the year come Jan.

thats awesome.  I'm from NC, and my brother and I held my first deer up by its back legs while my grandfather skinned and gutted it.  It was a bit smaller than average though.  In NC .22 caliber centerfires are illegal for deer, but I agree with all who say that a well placed bullet is better than a bigger bullet.

[SHOOTALL]

Here in Va. you can run into big deer or small deer depending on where you hunt . East small west Mountians Large. As example I killed a doe near the mountians that was over 160 lbs. Killed an eastern 12 pt buck ( I say 10 point but the station called a couple sticker points , points because they were over the 1 inch requirement ) it was also around 160 lbs.
 I also like the 25-06 for deer . In the woods the 7X30 waters does a super job. I really believe the bullet matters and the smaller the dia. the more it matters. My 7X30 shoots a 120 gr bullet at 2700 fps it always goes thru the deer alwayseaving a 7 mm hole on one side and a hole about the size of a quater or less  on the other side . Not one deer has gone more than a few yards even the ones running when I shot . Most dropped dead. All seemed to flinch at the shot . The 25-06 is 100 gr bullet at abot 3300 fps it also drops them dead. It also leaves a hole about the size of a quater or a little less on the off side. With 307 , 308 , 3006 and 300 win mag the destruction of meat is way more than the smaller rounds and bullet type matter little. The 7X30 used a Nosler FP Federal load while the 25-06 is a BT hand load . The 30 cal were a mix mostly the lesser expensive loads from 130 gr to 180 gr. ( the first deer I shot with a rifle was a round nose Remington corelok 180 gr factory load . The shot was 60 yards or so , hit behind the front shoulder as the deer crossed a creek. It exploded . It was an eastern spike maybe 120 lbs , If I were to hunt deer with any 223 rem . I would choose a good bullet for deer not varnits.
 The commit about the song dogs as big as our deer maybe true but all the ones I have seen in the Midwest and Canada were small and scraggly looking . The yotes here are very big compared to those. Our game dept says its because they have more to eat here . The ones I have seen look as large as german shepards and in the 60 lb plus range . The ones my son trapped weighed in that range others tore the traps up and got lose.

[JPShelton]

tmar,

I am sick of topics like this where tiny bullets are promoted as "all you need" or some other baloney to torture a deer to death.

The small bullets are not legal in some places that know better and for sure

not sporting.

"Use enough gun."

What's more "sporting" -shooting a broadside deer under 150 pounds at a distance under 150 yards in the lungs with a .223 Remington tipped with bullets intended for deer-sized game, or shooting a broadside deer weighing 180 pounds at a distance of 275 yards in the lungs twice with a .300 Weatherby tipped with 190 grain Sierra MatchKings, then a third time with a .300 Weatherby tipped with a 180 grain Nosler Partition?
Having been there and done that, I know which of the two scenarios fits with "torture a deer to death" and which does not.  And I don't really need the "sportsmanship police" to point it out to me.
JP

[FPH]

tmar,

I am sick of topics like this where tiny bullets are promoted as "all you need" or some other baloney to torture a deer to death.

The small bullets are not legal in some places that know better and for sure

not sporting.

"Use enough gun."

What's more "sporting" -shooting a broadside deer under 150 pounds at a distance under 150 yards in the lungs with a .223 Remington tipped with bullets intended for deer-sized game, or shooting a broadside deer weighing 180 pounds at a distance of 275 yards in the lungs twice with a .300 Weatherby tipped with 190 grain Sierra MatchKings, then a third time with a .300 Weatherby tipped with a 180 grain Nosler Partition?
Having been there and done that, I know which of the two scenarios fits with "torture a deer to death" and which does not.  And I don't really need the "sportsmanship police" to point it out to me.
JP

You must not be much of a shot if it takes you three rounds of a .300 Weatherby to take down a Muley at 275 yds.

[JPShelton]

tmar,

I am sick of topics like this where tiny bullets are promoted as "all you need" or some other baloney to torture a deer to death.

The small bullets are not legal in some places that know better and for sure

not sporting.

"Use enough gun."

What's more "sporting" -shooting a broadside deer under 150 pounds at a distance under 150 yards in the lungs with a .223 Remington tipped with bullets intended for deer-sized game, or shooting a broadside deer weighing 180 pounds at a distance of 275 yards in the lungs twice with a .300 Weatherby tipped with 190 grain Sierra MatchKings, then a third time with a .300 Weatherby tipped with a 180 grain Nosler Partition?
Having been there and done that, I know which of the two scenarios fits with "torture a deer to death" and which does not.  And I don't really need the "sportsmanship police" to point it out to me.
JP

You must not be much of a shot if it takes you three rounds of a .300 Weatherby to take down a Muley at 275 yds.

You might want to carefully re-read my comments before making dispariging comments about my marksmanship ability or supposed lack thereof.  I don't know what part of "in the lungs twice" or "then a third time" suggests sloppy shooting on my part.  You might also pay more attention to the bullets involved -two 190 grain MatchKings and one 180 grain. Nosler Partition.  If I would have taken that advice in the small hours of the morning prior to shooting that deer, there would not have been a second or a third shot.  The group made by entrance wounds was easily covered with the palm of my hand.  The problem was taking two shots with bullets that showed no evidence of expanding at all.  Since they aren't designed to expand on game, I'm not shocked that they didn't. The third one obviously did, and having a long history of one shot kills with Nosler Partitions, that wasn't a surprise, either.
I can be rightly accused of carelessness that day, because it was me who fumbled around in the dark of the small hours before sunrise in the back of my old Bronco and put the wrong ammo in the cartridge carrier on my belt and it was me who stuck a round tipped with a non-expanding 190 grain MatchKing in the chamber.
Bad marksmanship wasn't the issue, but readers are free to disparage my shooting ability as they see fit.  It's still a free country.

JP

[FPH]

tmar,

I am sick of topics like this where tiny bullets are promoted as "all you need" or some other baloney to torture a deer to death.

The small bullets are not legal in some places that know better and for sure

not sporting.

"Use enough gun."

What's more "sporting" -shooting a broadside deer under 150 pounds at a distance under 150 yards in the lungs with a .223 Remington tipped with bullets intended for deer-sized game, or shooting a broadside deer weighing 180 pounds at a distance of 275 yards in the lungs twice with a .300 Weatherby tipped with 190 grain Sierra MatchKings, then a third time with a .300 Weatherby tipped with a 180 grain Nosler Partition?
Having been there and done that, I know which of the two scenarios fits with "torture a deer to death" and which does not.  And I don't really need the "sportsmanship police" to point it out to me.
JP

You must not be much of a shot if it takes you three rounds of a .300 Weatherby to take down a Muley at 275 yds.

You might want to carefully re-read my comments before making dispariging comments about my marksmanship ability or supposed lack thereof.  I don't know what part of "in the lungs twice" or "then a third time" suggests sloppy shooting on my part.  You might also pay more attention to the bullets involved -two 190 grain MatchKings and one 180 grain. Nosler Partition.  If I would have taken that advice in the small hours of the morning prior to shooting that deer, there would not have been a second or a third shot.  The group made by entrance wounds was easily covered with the palm of my hand.  The problem was taking two shots with bullets that showed no evidence of expanding at all.  Since they aren't designed to expand on game, I'm not shocked that they didn't. The third one obviously did, and having a long history of one shot kills with Nosler Partitions, that wasn't a surprise, either.
I can be rightly accused of carelessness that day, because it was me who fumbled around in the dark of the small hours before sunrise in the back of my old Bronco and put the wrong ammo in the cartridge carrier on my belt and it was me who stuck a round tipped with a non-expanding 190 grain MatchKing in the chamber.
Bad marksmanship wasn't the issue, but readers are free to disparage my shooting ability as they see fit.  It's still a free country.
JP
JP

Well,considering that a .300 Weatherby will deliver 2700 to 2800 ftlbs of energy at 300 yds and your .223 only delivers around 2000 ftlbs of energy at 100 yds, I can only assume your shot placement was not the same.  180 lb deer compared to a 160 lb deer is not much difference.  275 yds is not that far.....so what else would I infer from your statement.  Imagine what a .300 would do at your 150 yds.  Chuck Hawks even says the .233 is a varmint round and not a deer round.  He considers the .243 to be a min. deer round.

[JPShelton]

tmar,

I am sick of topics like this where tiny bullets are promoted as "all you need" or some other baloney to torture a deer to death.

The small bullets are not legal in some places that know better and for sure

not sporting.

"Use enough gun."

What's more "sporting" -shooting a broadside deer under 150 pounds at a distance under 150 yards in the lungs with a .223 Remington tipped with bullets intended for deer-sized game, or shooting a broadside deer weighing 180 pounds at a distance of 275 yards in the lungs twice with a .300 Weatherby tipped with 190 grain Sierra MatchKings, then a third time with a .300 Weatherby tipped with a 180 grain Nosler Partition?
Having been there and done that, I know which of the two scenarios fits with "torture a deer to death" and which does not.  And I don't really need the "sportsmanship police" to point it out to me.
JP

You must not be much of a shot if it takes you three rounds of a .300 Weatherby to take down a Muley at 275 yds.

You might want to carefully re-read my comments before making dispariging comments about my marksmanship ability or supposed lack thereof.  I don't know what part of "in the lungs twice" or "then a third time" suggests sloppy shooting on my part.  You might also pay more attention to the bullets involved -two 190 grain MatchKings and one 180 grain. Nosler Partition.  If I would have taken that advice in the small hours of the morning prior to shooting that deer, there would not have been a second or a third shot.  The group made by entrance wounds was easily covered with the palm of my hand.  The problem was taking two shots with bullets that showed no evidence of expanding at all.  Since they aren't designed to expand on game, I'm not shocked that they didn't. The third one obviously did, and having a long history of one shot kills with Nosler Partitions, that wasn't a surprise, either.
I can be rightly accused of carelessness that day, because it was me who fumbled around in the dark of the small hours before sunrise in the back of my old Bronco and put the wrong ammo in the cartridge carrier on my belt and it was me who stuck a round tipped with a non-expanding 190 grain MatchKing in the chamber.
Bad marksmanship wasn't the issue, but readers are free to disparage my shooting ability as they see fit.  It's still a free country.
JP
JP

Well,considering that a .300 Weatherby will deliver 2700 to 2800 ftlbs of energy at 300 yds and your .223 only delivers around 2000 ftlbs of energy at 100 yds, I can only assume your shot placement was not the same.  180 lb deer compared to a 160 lb deer is not much difference.  275 yds is not that far.....so what else would I infer from your statement.  Imagine what a .300 would do at your 150 yds.  Chuck Hawks even says the .233 is a varmint round and not a deer round.  He considers the .243 to be a min. deer round.

What else could one infer from my statement?  One could start by inferring that a cartirdge with the velocity and kinectic energy potential of the .300 Weatherby Magnum doesn't magically transform an inappropriate, non expanding bullet not intended for game use into a controlled expansion design that is intended for game use.  One could further infer that a spitzer shaped, non-expanding bullet that punches through the lung cavity on a deer doesn't expend nearly as much of its energy in said deer as it does in the atmosphere and earth beyond it. 
One could have inferred a lot from my comments beyond a wholesale castigatiion of my shooting ability.
JP
 

[FPH]

Should I then infer that you used an inappropriate bullet to hunt with, or that you are just rationalizing your poor choice of weapon?  Clearly, if you struck the deer in the same place, a .300 will deliver more killing energy at 300 yds than the .223 at 100 yds.

[cjclemens]

Talk about a bad penny. This thread just don't wanna die, does it? Too bad none if this is gonna matter, once the libs ban our guns.  I guess we can all still argue whether rocks or sharp sticks are better for killin squirrels in the back yard

[FPH]

Wha

Talk about a bad penny. This thread just don't wanna die, does it? Too bad none if this is gonna matter, once the libs ban our guns.  I guess we can all still argue whether rocks or sharp sticks are better for killin squirrels in the back yard

What's wrong with a health debate......JP, I apologize if I have offended you in any way.

[JPShelton]

I no longer own a rifle in .223 Remington and have only owned three -a Mini-14, a Contender Carbine, and a Handi-Rifle.
I used the Contender Carbine when backpacking in to the Ventana Wilderness and Dick Smith Wilderness in the Los Padres National Forest during California's "A" Zone deer season.  The rifle was the lightest stainless steel model I could find, and its form factor worked well with backpacking, being compact and fairly flat-sided.  The blacktailed deer I pursued with it were small -I never shot one over 100 lbs on the hoof.  The ranges were fairly close, too, with a 150 yard shot being a long one.  I'd backpack in and stay out for 7 to 14 days.  I would see lots of deer, most of the time, but only shot when I was a certain as I could possibly be of a clean, quick kill.  I wasn't shooting at deer that were being chased around by a passle of hunters, either.  Under that paradigm, the rifle and cartridge worked as well as anything else would, and I filled my deer tag with it every season that I took the rifle out over a 20 year span -so, somewhere around 15 deer fell to it.  I initially used the WW 64 grain PowerPoint factory load.  It shot well out of my rifle and I never had any complaints about the terminal performance. 
I also hunted the later inland seasons in California and Utah and Colorado during that time.  Inland hunts were for larger mule deer, where ranges might be longer, and on National Forest or BLM lands not necessiarily Designated Wilderness areas, so I was also hunting more "pressured" animals than I commonly encountered in blacktail hunting.  The .223 stayed in the safe for that.  I probably could have made it work if it was all I had for California mule deer hunts, but it would have been grossly unsuitable for the hunting I did in Utah and Colorado, as elk might be on the agenda, too.  So I tended to use a .30-30 and a .270 or .30-'06 or .300 Weatherby Magnum for those hunts.
When I moved to Oklahoma, a lot of my guns remained in storage in California, and I had an opportunity to get a deal on a Handi-Rifle in .223, which I used to kill a whitetail doe weighing about 90 pounds on the hoof, and a buck weighing about 140 -both shots well under 150 yards.  When I got my guns home, I sold off the Handi-Rifle to finance upgrades and overhaul to my .30-30.
I know from first hand, practical experience that a Contender Carbine in .223 Remington can be pressed into service as a "deer rifle" and since I did that same thing for many years, it would be hypocritical of me to say that it couldn't, since I not only used it, but used it successfully but under a farily narrow set of circumstances on smallish deer.
JP

[JPShelton]

Should I then infer that you used an inappropriate bullet to hunt with, or that you are just rationalizing your poor choice of weapon?  Clearly, if you struck the deer in the same place, a .300 will deliver more killing energy at 300 yds than the .223 at 100 yds.

There ya' go!  I would like folks to infer that I used an inappropriate bullet to hunt with, because that is exactly what I did and that is what the root cause of the mule deer fiasco was.  I knew the bullets were not appropriate.  I loaded them for long range target shooting with absolutely no intention of hunting game with them ever.  But I was supremely careless by first having 80 of them in the same box with 20 rounds loaded with 180 Nosler Partitions that WERE intended for killing game.  That carelessness extended to fumbling though that in the dark in the back of my old Bronco.  I went beyond that to chambering one of those woefully inappropriate rounds into my rifle, not once, but twice. 
That incident left such a sickening feeling in my soul that I didn't go deer hunting again until 2002.  And when I did, I made good and sure that the only ammo I had in my truck was appropriate for deer hunting.
Now, as for my "poor choice of weapon," there is not one thing "poor" about a Ruger No.1 that shoots where you aim it, and mine did.  There is definitely nothing wrong with the .300 Weatherby Magnum -beyond maybe insane muzzle flash, lol....
If "poor choice of weapon" is in reference to my use of the .223 for deer, it made perfect sense to me at the time, it worked perfectly on the small deer I shot with it at relatively close range, it was perfectly legal in California when I used it, and if I ever backpack in to the Ventana Wilderness again during California's A Zone deer season and stay in it for a week or two, I can easily see myself wishing I had that little Contender Carbine still.  I'd probably just take my .30-30, though, rather than spring for a new gun that I have no other use for.
JP

[FPH]

Safe hunting.