.223 rem for whitetail deer?

[tmar04]

I realize a 223 is not ideal for deer, but just curious if any of you guys have handloaded any 75-80 gr bullets into 223 case and tried it on deer. just wondering about the ability of bullet to retain any kind of accuracy at 150-200 yds. all opinions welcome. I am interested in some 'pet loads' for contender carbine, 21 in barrel. tks to all.

[Catfish]

You will need at least a 1 in 8 twist or faster with the 80 gr. bullets you might get by with a 9 twist with the 75 gr. bullets you may not. I have killed deer with a 22 LR, but that was one that had been hit by a car so I had no trouble with a brain shot. The biggest problem with the 223 is that it has very little knock down power, compaired to commonly used deer round, and alot of them will run off and die and never be found.

[R.W.Dale]

A lot of folks looking to use 22 centerfires on deer make the mistake of assuming that the heavier the bullet the better.

But given that almost all 65grn + bullets are target projectiles this simply isn't true.

You need to be looking at bullet CONSTRUCTION and not so much weight. This will pretty much narrow things down to 55-70 grain. All of wich (70g smp included) will shoot just fine from a 1/12" twist.

Shooting a suitably constructed bullet and placing it in the right spot will poleaxe any whitetail out there just as dead as a 30/06.

I use the 55 grain sierra gameking. By all accounts the Winchester 64g PP is excellent too as are the Barnes TSX if you want to spend the $

[Blackhawk44]

Right or wrong, the .223 and .22-250 is used rather often in my region.  Most use "game" grade 55 to 64gr bullets.  Head and neck shots are the norm with 200 yards being a very long shot.  I don't hear of regular use of body shots.  These are also shots over baited areas or food plots at unexcited game.  "Jump" shooting deer with a .223 is not an option.  Despite the limitations, there are a tremendous number of deer harvested each year.  I'm happy enough with my .257 Roberts and .308. 

[BBF]

I used the heaviest Hdy HP at the time I hunted with the 223. Never lost one deer( fallow and black tailed) and most didn't even take one step.

[SHOOTALL]

In Va. we cannot hunt deer with a 223 cal gun so I have never shot a deer with one. I would think a good bullet in the correct place would stop a deer in its tracks. I would add that conditions may change that. Here we hunt with dogs and often take stands where the land behind us is posted making a stopping shot important as some land owners won't allow acess to get the deer. I would rather have something more powerfull in that case.

[drdougrx]

I'm trying to work up a load using the 60gr partition (yet again).  I'll try it out this fall.

[flintlock]

I used a 22-250 back in the 70s for deer...Killed a few dozen with it...This included a beautiful 10 point that I killed with a shot in the lungs from about 125 yards...He ran about 50 yards and fell over...
 
Fast forward about 30 years...My brother remembered that rifle and picked one up on trade...He thought it would make a nice deer rifle for his daughter who was 13-14 at the time...I bought a couple of boxes of Federal Premiums with the 60gr Nosler Partitions...
 
To date she has killed 18 deer with that rifle, she got married a few weeks ago, she is 22...Never had a problem killing deer with is, she can drop them on the spot with high lung shots...

[Savage_99]

Don't use small bullets like the .22 on deer.

It's cruel and will make them suffer longer than needed.

It's not legal in many places for that reason.

"Use enough gun"

[flintlock]

Use the proper bullet and you'll be just fine, that 60gr Nosler Partition is bad...I cleaned 2 does my niece killed with that gun one afternoon, opened up the chest cavity and it was mush...One and a half inch exit holes on both of them...

[cjclemens]

Deer aren't particularly tough animals. Like everyone else here said, just use proper bullets. Most .22 caliber bullets are the highly frangible varmint types, so make sure you choose a bullet that's designed for controlled expansion like the Nosler Partitions. Deer don't run off if you hit them in the right spot.  Good marksmanship will prevent more wounded or lost animals than bigger bullets will.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Perhaps the conditions under which we shoot deer matter more than the caliber...in Tx. for example we have private land, stand hunting, bait is legal..there is little if any competion from other hunters...shots are at standing undisturbed animals, tracking if necessary can be done without some other hunter nabing your animal..add to this long liberal seasons...no problem...In a state like Pa.  where almost 1 million hunters are out looking for a deer..while there is lots of private land, the farms are not large..hit a buck and he runs you may loose him to another hunter...throw in the fact that in deer season, most animals are stressed,. bait is not legal, animals are often moving and only stopping for brief periods, and deer season with rifles lasts only 12 days, a smaller rifle may not work as well..I suppose over the years, I have shot between 60-75 head of big game with .22 caliber rifles...never lost an animal, but I only used them when I was hunting in states that offered Tx. like hunting conditions....

[Catfish]

I keep forgetting that the deer you guys down South are shooting are about the same size as our coyotes, and I do use a 223 on coyote most of the time. I rember the first deer I saw killed in VA., a swamp deer, and the guy was so proud of his big buck, and I`m thinking that`s about the size of our young of the year come Jan.

[BBF]

Lets remember even a 30 cal bullet or larger will not always drop a deer on the spot. So a larger bullet isn't insurance that you don't have to track or could even loose an animal. Placement!......placement!........placement!...... and a suitable constructed bullet for the animal.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

But a .30 cal. damges more vitals, and makes tracking easier if the job needs done...shoot enough deer and it will need to be done...

[R.W.Dale]

But a .30 cal. damges more vitals, and makes tracking easier if the job needs done...shoot enough deer and it will need to be done...

Ime a 22 caliber bullet going into a deers ribcage at close to 3000 fps does vastly more damage that any 30/30 load will.

That exit hole is nice if you do need to track. But I've never seen a ribcage shot deer with a 22 live for much longer than a couple hops

[SHOOTALL]

I have shot alot of deer with a 30-30 and it kills them grave yard dead . Most are bang flops . I have not shot deer with a 223 but have a 2506 . Either 30-30 or 2506 will take out both shoulders the 30 30 leaves more useable meat in most cases the 25 will do its work at greater distance. Both will turn the guts to mush on a shot to far back. I can't see an advantage to a more destructive round if you plan to eat the deer . First you waste meat or second in some cases you taint meat by exploding guts and allowing their content to mix with the meat nither is an advantage. I would suggest a wider bullet will do a better  all else equal even weight to a point. The perfect shot would be one the bullet take out the top of the lungs and part of the heart and fell to the ground as it exited the deer leaving a hole large enough for a good blood trail if ever needed .no matter cal. So what bullet offers that best in the conditions you hunt ? What bullet can be deflected easier ? What type gun will suit you better and what round is aval for it ? If a 223 meets what you need and want go for it if not find what will.

[nomosendero]

I keep forgetting that the deer you guys down South are shooting are about the same size as our coyotes, and I do use a 223 on coyote most of the time. I rember the first deer I saw killed in VA., a swamp deer, and the guy was so proud of his big buck, and I`m thinking that`s about the size of our young of the year come Jan.

The distance through the lungs for a large Northern is greater, but not that much. With a good bullet, it will still be a pass through if shot in the chest & done so at 100 yds or less. The biggest Sask. Buck that has ever walked can be dropped like a bad habit with one shot 100% of the time with the right bullet at a very modest range and a logical angle for the caliber. It amazes me that this topic comes up every 6 months or so.
 
I personally know of 300 + Whitetails that have been harvested with the 223 & I killed a few myself, all of mine died fast.
 
With what I have stated before being the case, do I consider the 223 a "Deer Rifle"? No, I don't, I consider it a rifle that can kill Deer with it's own set of rules that have to be adhered to for reliable killing. It goes back to the 3 factors, Distance, Bullet type & angles. I consider a Deer rifle to be a weapon that will allow me to take angle shots when needed, shot at distance when needed (enough vel. for terminal effect), in other words a rifle that allows me more opportunities to do that. So one should stay with those guidelines, the same way I do with a bow in my hand. If you understand this it will work. 
 

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot a couple deer and pigs with an ar. Not a bunch but enough to know that the 60 grain partition gets the job done. Longest shot was 200 yards and i dont think id stretch it much farther then that. Im sure it would do the job at 300 but ive got better guns for that purpose.

[Savage .250]

Is there a "min" cal in your state in the DNR regs? 

[flintlock]

Is there a "min" cal in your state in the DNR regs?

Not here in NC...
 
We believe in less Government...   

[SHOOTALL]

Is there a "min" cal in your state in the DNR regs?

Not here in NC...
 
We believe in less Government...   

like what a kid can carry to school for lunch ? or a permit to buy a handgun ? 

[charles p]

Just bought a 7-30W and 223 carbine barrels for my TC Contender.  The 7-30W is a tack driver.  Have not fired the .223.  Identical old Leupold scopes on each.  I have a grandson that is left handed and all my rifles are righty models.  Thought the TC carbine would be a good starter rifle.  Someone suggest I get a .223 and let him learn to shoot, then switch to the 7-30W when I take him to a ground box to sit in my lap.  He will not know the difference..  His dad also has a TC Contender, so I'll send my grandson home someday with both barres/scopes.  Kid is not yet age five so I have a few years to work with him and the 223.  Planing to use the 60gr Nosler if ever we hunt with the 223.  He is already eager to go hunting.

[SHOOTALL]

Good set up , the kid has a good grand pa !

[mannyrock]

 
  Tiny deer in Virginia and the rest of the South?  Depends on where you hunt.  They are somewhat small in the swampier areas, but in the mountain areas they can be huge.
 
   The first deer my wife ever shot was when we hunted on a farm in the Blue Ridge, at Covesville, VA, which is 19 miles southwest of Charlottesville.  (600 acres).  The author John Grisham bought this several years ago.  Anyway, the liveweight (undressed) of the deer was 195 pounds, and he was not in prime shape due to his age and running around crazy in the rut.   No so tiny.
 
  Even larger deer come out of the Appalachians.  West Virginia, East Tennessee, and Southwest Virginia produce some huge deer.
 
   She shot him dead on, in the chest, at 125 yards.   I guess a .223 would have done it, if it could have pierced all of the way through his breastbone and kept on going.  Don't know for sure though.
 
Mannyrock
 
 
 

[Bingo]

  You have a Contender. Why would you use such a marginal round. You can put any barrel you want on that gun. Use a round that is more suited for the game you are hunting. Braging rights (I shot a deer with a 223) is an ego trip. Wounding an animal should be a crime.
  Don't get me wrong, 223 is a great round for coyote and fun to shoot, but unless you are hunting from a stand and taking head shots, it is the wrong gun!!!
  I hunt with men who are professional hunters. If you came on their property for a deer hunt with a 223 you would be sent home.

[nomosendero]

  You have a Contender. Why would you use such a marginal round. You can put any barrel you want on that gun. Use a round that is more suited for the game you are hunting. Braging rights (I shot a deer with a 223) is an ego trip. Wounding an animal should be a crime.
  Don't get me wrong, 223 is a great round for coyote and fun to shoot, but unless you are hunting from a stand and taking head shots, it is the wrong gun!!!
  I hunt with men who are professional hunters. If you came on their property for a deer hunt with a 223 you would be sent home.

If they are "professionals" then they would know that if any Whitetail or Mule Deer is shot in the lungs at woods ranges (100-150 yds.) with a 223 and the right bullet, then that Deer is a dead Deer, because the right bullet will penetrate the ribs of a Deer & do it's work & it takes lungs to breathe. I started my boys with Handirifles, I sit with them and would only let them take broadside shots 100 yds. or less. The Deer ALL died fast & no suffering. And no, the head shot is NOT the best under hunting conditions.
I have already stated why I do not consider the 223 a "Deer Rifle' & why I don't want to limit myself, so I won't do it again. When using one you must understand the limitations, just as with a bow (diff. limitations). Some understand this & some don't. I would more readily accept someone hunting with me that uses a 223 within it's capaabilities than a slob hunter with a 742 30-06 that takes bad shots ( I have seen some of that) & no I am not implying 742 users are slobs.

[RevJim]

 Ive used a .220 Swift and 55gr Trophy Bonded on Axis deer and BlackBuck Antelope, plus one 150# young mule deer buck in Utah. I've also shot a 80# shoat with a little .221 Fireball and the older 50gr XLC barnes bullet. Range was under 75yds, took out a shoulder, both lungs, ahd a 50 caliber exit hole.
 My cousin uses a 22-250 on Texas whitetail, and she always kills. Its like said here, the "best' place to use a hot .22 is over bait, close range. I was limited to the above 220 Swift because I was recovering from a neck fusion and I was going stir crazy, needed to hunt! ha.
 Sure, I think a 6mm is more efficient, but lots of folks use the .223, but the ones who do are not making very long shots with them. You can "hit" the deer, but good luck finding any kind of blood trail, very iffy. As I get older, I like a .270 as an all around deer rifle, and to me, the grand old 30.06 was like a "magnum" on Texas deer, ha.

[D Fischer]

With cartridges like the 243, 6mm, 250-3000, 257 Roberts ect, I can't understand using a 22 cal bullet on a deer for any reason that to say, "I did it"! I have shot and killed very dead a number of deer with a 22LR. It's no big thing, use it within it's limits and learn where to shoot to make use of the cartridge. But what's the reasoning behind it? For me it was many many years ago and a matter of food. When you actually need the food, you learn to work within the limits of what you have. I have to say also, there is nothing sporting about using any kind of 22 cal for big game.

[nomosendero]

With cartridges like the 243, 6mm, 250-3000, 257 Roberts ect, I can't understand using a 22 cal bullet on a deer for any reason that to say, "I did it"! I have shot and killed very dead a number of deer with a 22LR. It's no big thing, use it within it's limits and learn where to shoot to make use of the cartridge. But what's the reasoning behind it? For me it was many many years ago and a matter of food. When you actually need the food, you learn to work within the limits of what you have. I have to say also, there is nothing sporting about using any kind of 22 cal for big game.

I am not sure anyone said anything about "sporting". And like you said use it within it's limits. I stated why I don't consider them a "Deer Rifle" even though the biggest Deer to ever walk this planet can be easily killedwithin the range and angle limits the round calls for. Indeed why would I use a 250 Sav when I have a hot 25-06, we could do that forever, but no need when the original post is responded to.