New vs. Old 22 CBee rounds: Is there a difference?

[5kwkdw3]

I figured that this place was as good as any and better than most for the posting of this.  I remember only seeing Remington when it came to CBee rounds (don't know if they had any claim to the name or not).  At the time, early in my shooting career it was CBee's, or CBee Longs.  They both sounded just as quiet out of my cheapy bolt rifle (Monkey Wards as I recall).  But the CBee's were a bugger to get into the gun so I opted for the CBee longs as a better option.  Still shorter than a long rifle round, but close.  I made a shim out of a strip of brass that I put into the magazine and they fed OK as I remember.


Now up to today's time frame.  A bunch of folk are making CBee type of rounds and "subsonic" rounds as well.  I tried to find my two familiar Remington CBee's and could only find one round in that department, a CBee long rifle.  Now is that only in reference to the case length?  Or does it have an impact on noise and/or power as well?  I'd like to get a consistent, quiet round to use with my Henry Mini Bolt rifle for the backyard gophers that are undermining my shed.  There must be more to tunneling under a structure for the gophers rather than just happenstance, since I have several gopher holes in my yard but all are at the edge of my shed foundation.  Ie. no random holes in the middle of the yard or elsewhere besides the ones by my shed.  I'd like to plug all but one hole and cover them with plywood and weights and drop a smoke bomb into one of the covered holes to chase them out the one and only uncovered hole.  There I'd be waiting for them with my Henry and Remington CBee long rifles if that round is what I think it is (their regular CBee round in a long rifle case).  Just to take care of my Gopher problem.  Any thoughts or experience with a similar problem and the available ammo?  Smithy.

[Victor3]

 The Rem CBee LR HP is about the best round you'll find for what you want to do.
 
 However, your gophers do not have lighted exit signs in their burrows. Even if they did, and all came out in a neat single-file line, you wouldn't hit many of them without a 12 ga hi-cap auto. 

[SHOOTALL]

I think the longs are an effort to not get build up in the chamber from shorts making future use of longs difficult to chamber or extract. Shorts are shorts , longs are same bullet size as shorts but longer case. Long rifle is long case with bigger bullet in most cases . But today there are companies making really big bullets and different length cases.
 Something to consider is velocity , bullets traveling slower dont expand as well or go as deep into critters as solids do. Often it is better to use a solid to insure reaching a vital. I have just tried the Winchester Quiet bullet and like it alot. I also use the CCI CB long and like them. The Remington sub sonic never seemed accurate in the gun I shot them in but 22,s differ and others like them. I don't think I have shot rem cb's .
 BTW try amonia in the holes instead of smoke draws less attention .

[5kwkdw3]

BTW try amonia in the holes instead of smoke draws less attention .

Thanks for the tip, SHOOTALL, I'll give that a try.  Smithy.

[Drilling Man]

  You mean you can't just buy a box and see how you like them in your gun??? 
 
  Personally, i shoot them all the time and like them a lot!
 
  DM

[5kwkdw3]

  You mean you can't just buy a box and see how you like them in your gun??? 
 
  Personally, i shoot them all the time and like them a lot!
 
  DM

The Remington CBee's and CBee long's I remember from the past both had the same identical report from a bolt action gun, ie. nothing!  All this present talk of this round has more power than that round and this bullet will drop them dead vs. that round will just piss them off has me concerned.  Obviously amounts and types of priming compound could not be responsible for that variation, so powder has to be involved somewhere.  The older CBee's I talk about, I would have no fear of the police being called If I capped off a few rounds in the back yard, but with these new ones I'm just not sure.  I don't want to find out the hard way on my way to the local pokey.  That's why I'm asking first to folk that have had the opportunity to pop a few off so I don't get into undue trouble.  If the new Remington CBee 22LR's are just an extended case of their former priming power only, then I'll be safe with them.  If however they've been souped up a bit, then I may have a problem and need to find a different brand altogether.  Smithy.

[Victor3]

 All brands of CB caps (going back 40 years) I've pulled a bullet on have had powder.
 
 Only .22 LR length case I know of that's loaded with primer only is Aguila Colibri/Super Colibri. They're about as quiet as you'll find but I can't get them to score better than "minute of watermellon" past 20 yds in any rifle I own.

[ironglow]

The original CB round is much older than any of us..Remington may have a copyright on the name " CBee", since that is what they now call their CB rounds.  Some of the originals were quiet enough that they were used for "parlor shooting" in the early days of .22RF.  Here's a short history on .22 RF, by Chuck Hawks;
   http://www.chuckhawks.com/history_rimfire_ammo.htm
  As far as I know, the original Aguila Colibri is the only one which is fired on primer alone.  I am not a Remington rimfire fan for 2 reasons..dirty and and too often, failure to fire.  That's just my experience, yours may be different.
  CCI has CBs in two lengths..short and long.  The longs will function through most repeater magazines, although self-loaders must be hand operated. From my experience the longs and shorts are equal in power and accuracy.  It is said that the long, have the same amount of powder and posed closer to the rifling..has the powder all lying on the bottom of the case when fired, while the powder in the shorts stays more where it belongs..thus equalizing the accuracy.
   I think that with the new "quiet" round, CCI has developed a new powder which fills the case yet keeps the speed down to a quiet level to CB range (710 fps), yet delivers 40gr punch (45 ft lbs) .  Unfortunately, none of the CCIs mentioned are HP bullets..but I wonder just how well even hollowpoints expand in soft tissue at 710 fps.
         http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=3&loadNo=960
   One round I have used recently with great results, is the comparatively new Winchester, full 40gr subsonic with a big, gaping, hollowpoint..it is accurate hits like a sledge hammer on woodchucks etc.
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900255464/winchester-super-x-ammunition-subsonic-22-long-rifle-40-grain-lead-truncated-cone-hollow-point

[SHOOTALL]

Back when S&W invented the CB which grew into the 22 short it was a cap and round ball. I would guess CB was short for cap and ball but that's a guess. And I think I remember reading that it was for target pratice indoors . Folks would set a target in a fire place and shoot away.

[Drilling Man]

  You mean you can't just buy a box and see how you like them in your gun??? 
 
  Personally, i shoot them all the time and like them a lot!
 
  DM

The Remington CBee's and CBee long's I remember from the past both had the same identical report from a bolt action gun, ie. nothing!  All this present talk of this round has more power than that round and this bullet will drop them dead vs. that round will just piss them off has me concerned.  Obviously amounts and types of priming compound could not be responsible for that variation, so powder has to be involved somewhere.  The older CBee's I talk about, I would have no fear of the police being called If I capped off a few rounds in the back yard, but with these new ones I'm just not sure.  I don't want to find out the hard way on my way to the local pokey.  That's why I'm asking first to folk that have had the opportunity to pop a few off so I don't get into undue trouble.  If the new Remington CBee 22LR's are just an extended case of their former priming power only, then I'll be safe with them.  If however they've been souped up a bit, then I may have a problem and need to find a different brand altogether.  Smithy.

  AND, you will never know until you try them!  SO, buy a box and try them!  NO one here can tell you how they will sound at YOUR house out of YOUR rifle!
 
  I shoot them all the time, and i like them very much.
 
  DM

[ironglow]

One caveat;
  Those Aguila Colibris which only carry the primer as a charge..shoot them only in a barrel of about 20" or less.  I won't shoot them in my 24.5" CZ, tooo much chance of a lodged bullet..
  I have about ruled out the Colibris, since my Ruger air rifle can do basically the same job.

[5kwkdw3]

Only .22 LR length case I know of that's loaded with primer only is Aguila Colibri/Super Colibri.

Here's the round I'm talking about and yes it's in a LR case.  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601355683/remington-cbee-ammunition-22-long-rifle-33-grain-hollow-point     A long rifle case with a 33 grain hollow point bullet that according to most folks expands very well at low speeds.  These are the rounds I'd like to use, but have no idea on their report.  Loud, soft, pellet gun like?  I just don't know.  Smithy.

[Drilling Man]

One caveat;
  Those Aguila Colibris which only carry the primer as a charge..shoot them only in a barrel of about 20" or less.  I won't shoot them in my 24.5" CZ, tooo much chance of a lodged bullet..
  I have about ruled out the Colibris, since my Ruger air rifle can do basically the same job.

  Yes some say they will stick in a rifle bbl., but i've yet to have it happen.  There's NO .177 or 22cal pellet rifle that will even come close to what they do!  I bet you i've shot 50 coons with them, pellet guns don't even come close to killing as well and yes i do have some magnum pellet rifles.
 
  DM

[ironglow]

SKW;
  There are enough reviews right there on the Midway site to get a good idea.  That does look like a great hollowpoint, essentially a Yellowjacket slug with expansion slots.  The reviews all say they are good, so if you can find them they are sure worth a 50 round trial.
   I'm not a Remington rimfire ammo fan (centerfire OK) but reading the reviews, if I could find some, I would try them..

[Victor3]

One caveat;
  Those Aguila Colibris which only carry the primer as a charge..shoot them only in a barrel of about 20" or less.  I won't shoot them in my 24.5" CZ, tooo much chance of a lodged bullet..
  I have about ruled out the Colibris, since my Ruger air rifle can do basically the same job.

  Yes some say they will stick in a rifle bbl., but i've yet to have it happen.  There's NO .177 or 22cal pellet rifle that will even come close to what they do!  I bet you i've shot 50 coons with them, pellet guns don't even come close to killing as well and yes i do have some magnum pellet rifles.
 
  DM

 Not hardly. I have three air rifles that will dump more energy into an animal and do it way more accurately at longer ranges than I've ever seen Colibri/Super Colibri do. My airgun buddies and I gave up on the stuff after trying a brick of each type in various guns.
 
 I guess if one's not accustomed to the laser-like accuracy of a tuned German air rifle, the Colibri might not seem too bad. 3" group at 25 yds is acceptable to some folks.
 

[Victor3]

Only .22 LR length case I know of that's loaded with primer only is Aguila Colibri/Super Colibri.

Here's the round I'm talking about and yes it's in a LR case.  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601355683/remington-cbee-ammunition-22-long-rifle-33-grain-hollow-point     A long rifle case with a 33 grain hollow point bullet that according to most folks expands very well at low speeds.  These are the rounds I'd like to use, but have no idea on their report.  Loud, soft, pellet gun like?  I just don't know.  Smithy.

 If you're close to buildings their report will be noticable from a rifle; about like a loud hand clap in a 20" bbl IIRC. Longer bbl will of course be more quiet.

[Drilling Man]

One caveat;
  Those Aguila Colibris which only carry the primer as a charge..shoot them only in a barrel of about 20" or less.  I won't shoot them in my 24.5" CZ, tooo much chance of a lodged bullet..
  I have about ruled out the Colibris, since my Ruger air rifle can do basically the same job.

  Yes some say they will stick in a rifle bbl., but i've yet to have it happen.  There's NO .177 or 22cal pellet rifle that will even come close to what they do!  I bet you i've shot 50 coons with them, pellet guns don't even come close to killing as well and yes i do have some magnum pellet rifles.
 
  DM

 Not hardly. I have three air rifles that will dump more energy into an animal and do it way more accurately at longer ranges than I've ever seen Colibri/Super Colibri do. My airgun buddies and I gave up on the stuff after trying a brick of each type in various guns.
 
 I guess if one's not accustomed to the laser-like accuracy of a tuned German air rifle, the Colibri might not seem too bad. 3" group at 25 yds is acceptable to some folks.

  I have some Magnum German pellet rifles among others...  Yes they are accurate, but in .177 and 22, they do NOT "kill" as well a the Super Colidri do, and i'm talking as 15 yards or so, that's all i ever shoot them.  The extra bullet weight pays off in spades, on tougher animals like racoons!
 
  Out of my Henry, they are quieter than a magnum pellet rifle too.
 
  DM

[ironglow]

  I was of course, speaking of the original (powderless) Colibri  20gr @ 300 fps = 6ft lbs
 
  The Super Colibri upped the speed... 20gr @ 500fps = 11 ft lbs..... a slightly different story.
 
  But as Victor said, an RWS 460 Magnum pushes .22 pellets up to 1150fps.. 
  Just pushing a 14 grain pellet @ 1000fps will yield 31 ft lbs  with a flatter trajectory and a chance to mushroom.
 
  I was especially disappointed with the Colibris due to the rainbow trajectory.

[SHOOTALL]

The only cb rounds from long ago I used were ones a policeman gave my dad . The PO said they used them for peigon control . That was late 60's or so. They had nickle cases and were shorts. I would guess some type from CCI but not sure. The ones today seem about the same to me as I use CCI today.

[5kwkdw3]

If you're close to buildings their report will be noticable from a rifle; about like a loud hand clap in a 20" bbl IIRC. Longer bbl will of course be more quiet.

Thank you Victor 3!!  So many posts and I finally get an answer to the OP.  I'll get a box, leave the garage door open with my powder actuated nail gun and a box of it's ammo laying out just in case I get visited and crack off a couple rounds in the back yard.  Smithy.