Author Topic: Weird situation for cops?  (Read 1200 times)

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Offline briarpatch

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Weird situation for cops?
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:16:39 PM »
http://wreg.com/2012/07/30/handcuffed-man-shot-in-back-of-police-car/#ooid=1wcXVpNTruvNMdRb41pNgw1WqjVw50qJ


(Jonesboro, AR)     Teresa Carter just doesn’t understand what happened to her son Chavis in the back of a police car.  Officers picked him up, said he had drugs on him, and missed a court date on more drugs charges.

“As protocol he was handcuffed behind his back and double locked, and searched”, said Sergeant Lyle Waterworth, Jonesboro Police.

Somehow minutes later police say  they heard a thumping noised, turned around and found Chavis dead, shot in the head, in the back of the squad car.

“Any given officer has missed something on a search, be it drugs, knife, razor blades, this instance it happened to be a gun” said Waterworth.

They’re still investigating but they think Chavis, somehow managed to pull out a hidden gun and shot himself in the head.

His mother disagrees, “I think they killed him, my son wasn’t suicidal.”, said  Teresa Carter.

She says her son called his girlfriend while pulled over, to say he’d call her from jail.  The mother said she was also told her son was shot in his right temple. But she says he was left handed.  She says it just doesn’t add up.

Police say they’re still investigating and haven’t ruled out the possibility that someone else may have shot Chavis Carter.  The officer involved is on leave while they investigate


Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2012, 05:25:04 AM »
handcuffed behind his back, in back seat of a car, and... they say he shot hisself in the head?
 
Alrighty...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2012, 06:40:31 AM »
Hmmmm?
Most times when you are searched they find everything down to the size of a joint or small pill!
Then to be able to shoot himself in the temple while handcuffed ?????
 
 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2012, 07:34:25 AM »
 ;) ;) Hey its possible ! Vince Foster shot himself and the gun was out side the car away from the car . Windows rolled up and doors shut .  ;) ;)
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline finisher

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2012, 07:57:37 AM »
The BS just piles higher and higher all the time doesn't it.


I wonder if the cops kept their "poker faces" when asked up front :o . Too bad they weren't asked on camera.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 07:59:32 AM »
yep its education
BS -  ;D
MS -more of the same
PHD -piled high and deep
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 08:07:00 AM »
I think the coroner ruled that he died of natural causes. Apparently being shot through the head is natural causes in a case like this.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 08:40:35 AM »
OK, a few thoughts.....
 
First of all, no one will really know what happened until all the facts come out, right now its just speculation based on partial facts, and a lot of speculation.
 
"Double locked" means that after the cuffs are applied, they are locked, so they do not continue to ratchet closed, becoming tighter as the suspect moves around, actually a benefit to the person wearing the cuffs.
 
Yea, the search could have been better, but in the field, usually a pat search is conducted, which USUALLY is sufficient.  A more thorough visual (strip) search is conducted when the suspect is booked, before being placed in a cell.  After 30 years in the business, I can tell you you would be amazed at the things people are carrying, and where they are carrying it - between the ass cheeks comes to mind in this situation.  If you want to really hide something to avoid a pat search, its not that hard to do.
 
Being cuffed behind the back means little - a lot of people are flexible enough to "step thru" their restraints, or reach around reach around to the front of their body, even cuffed.  I have witnessed more then a couple assaults committed by "cuffed" prisoners, including the homicide  of another prisoner with a razor blade that was secreted in the suspects anus.
 
Anyone who has ever worked a jail will tell you that the most dangerous period for suicides is the first 24 hours of incarceration.  People, especially when still under the influence of drugs, do foolish things.
 
Don't know what really happened in this case, no body in this forum does, not even the wild eyed cop haters do.  The above is simply presented as food for thought about what happens in the real world.
 
Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 08:55:09 AM »
I agree with Bigeasy.  There is nothing to see here.  Just move along people.  Nothing to see here... 
 
Let it drop, trust the authorities...
 
Nothing to see here...

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 08:58:00 AM »
you would be amazed at the things people are carrying, and where they are carrying it -

Amen there Big E!   ;D   I hauled a young girl to Ju-bin-ile one and when I got her into intake she pulled a revolver outa her crotch area.  :o
 
I tell ta, that was the LAST time I put anyone in the back seat without doing a real good pat down!   ;D
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 09:06:41 AM »
I have worked in prisons and jails most all have boards posted that have things mounted on them that have been taken from prisoners. One jail was at the bottom of a hill and a low rent housing project at the top. Each day guards would serach the exersise yard for arrows shot in from above with drugs , smokes weapons etc taped to them.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline DDZ

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2012, 10:24:19 AM »
It certainly makes a better story for some if the speculation leans toward the cops shooting him.
 
Remember this story? It had to hurt. Then again maybe he was used to that sort of thing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/16/man-hides-gun-in-rectum_n_1208666.html
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2012, 10:34:27 AM »
Is it hating cops to wonder how this happened? How a left handed hand cuffed man who'd been searched managed to shoot himself in the right temple while detained a few feet from the officer? I know a little bit about suicide, and while it is common in the first 24 hours, its not common in the car on the way there ... it takes a little time to settle in. And shooters typically go strong side out of habit.


I don't hate cops; but this one should be investigated.
held fast

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2012, 10:41:54 AM »
The media dont help in these situations but the cop talking looked as though he needed convincing also.
maybe there is more to the story, at least I hope so.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2012, 12:15:48 PM »
Is it hating cops to wonder how this happened? How a left handed hand cuffed man who'd been searched managed to shoot himself in the right temple while detained a few feet from the officer? I know a little bit about suicide, and while it is common in the first 24 hours, its not common in the car on the way there ... it takes a little time to settle in. And shooters typically go strong side out of habit.
I don't hate cops; but this one should be investigated.
COP HATER!!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2012, 12:19:26 PM »
Is it hating cops to wonder how this happened? How a left handed hand cuffed man who'd been searched managed to shoot himself in the right temple while detained a few feet from the officer? I know a little bit about suicide, and while it is common in the first 24 hours, its not common in the car on the way there ... it takes a little time to settle in. And shooters typically go strong side out of habit.


I don't hate cops; but this one should be investigated.

 
Agreed, this, and any incident like it should obviously be investigated.
 
 My "cop hater" comment is directed at several forum members who continually post derogatory posts about law enforcement.  Fine,  if its accurate and justified.  But its often based on inaccurate, biased, or incomplete facts and information.  Anyone who reads this forum often enough, if they are honest about it, knows what I mean.  I could sit here each day, and post, say, derogatory Internet clips about school teachers, how they are all lazy, uncaring child molesters.  But I don't, because its unfair and not true.  Any time you make blanket statements about any group or profession, based on the actions of a few, you are showing your ignorance and bias.
I would certainly agree that suicide in the back of a patrol car is unusual, but not for lack of trying.  I have lost track how many suspects I have had to hog tie to prevent them from banging their heads against the metal cage or window.
 
Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2012, 12:29:18 PM »
Larry, you ought weigh in on the PA State police and case of Robert Leone...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 01:08:37 PM »
Not up on that case. Is that the one where several troopers are accused of beating a restrained suspect?  If proven true, of course prosecutions should follow.  No excuse for serious unethical or illegal behavior.  No excuse for lumping everyone in the same boat either...  Honestly have to say, in 10 years as a trooper (not in PA), and 20 as a Federal Agent, the number of times I witnessed serious misconduct by an officer I can count on one hand.  Those incidents did not go unresolved.   Just my 2 cents, anyway...
 
Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline finisher

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2012, 09:48:15 PM »
Perhaps I'm blowing some hot air as your quote says. You are absolutely correct Big E, when one has spent enough time on the streets, one definitely witnesses some things that blow the mind (no pun).


And you are also correct that no real conclusions can be drawn about the officers conduct based on what we are given here.


This good cop bad cop debate always pops up and their is never any middle ground on it.


I'm not gonna say that they are all bad because that is just one extreme and I know better, But I've known many cops where I grew up in LA and let me tell you, they are some of the MEANEST, most SADISTIC people I've known.


I'm not a cop but I have a good understanding of the job (believe me) and I know why some can become the way they do. But alot of the guys I've known , I knew before they became cops and they've always been bullies since we were kids. It's like dealing with 6'4" , 270 Lb. child throwing a temper tantrum with a bat or a knife.


I don't mean to make a joke of the job, and maybe comparing a grown, two legged animal to a child is giving the criminal too much credit. I've seen guys kick in the windows that are supposed to be unbreakable, I've seen a 130 lb girl fight off three big mooses for deputies (who I might add, showed incredibly professional restraint when I would have just put a fist across her jaw), Like I told Cuts recently...Scene a lot of stuff. It was EVERY day for me growing up and also for many others.


And just as cops become hard to regular people's BS because of all the crap they've had to tolerate from the real animals; regular people also become numb to the idea that cops are people too.


But they have less sympathy for cops because civilians KNOW... I know that I couldn't get away with half of the stuff that they've witnessed cops doing.


For me personally, if the suspect was a known POS, I could easilly overlook that "accidental" gut shot or "tripped and fell on his face". I'm sure you know that often times it may end up being more than what the court is gonna do. I think what really bothers me is the verbal abuse.


Many of these cops, just like the criminal, have mouths that could make a sailor cringe (and I'm an old sailor). I know that sounds crazy, "uh yeah, he FELL... repeatedly".  I'm ok with that. Hell that's what the neighborhood told the cops when they handed a black and blue Richard Ramirez over to the police.


But the crap talking, antagonizing and verbal abuse after the guys already been subdued (seen more of that than any thing else)... I don't know. It seems to piss a suspect off even further and unnecessarily. In LA it is usually one of the main reasons that so many cops get beat down. Yeah people, in LA cops take a beating all the time, but it's not made widely publicly known.


LAPD and LACSD have a very high turnover rate. And a very low percentage of cops will ever make it to what I've heard referred to as a natural retirement. In other words a retirement not due to injury or psychological reasons or death or quitting etc. etc. Yeah...It's a damn tough job. But like Super Chicken once said "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred".


There has to be some balance on this issue and I can understand how working in LE yourself, you want to give your community the benefit of the doubt. But it was my friends dad (an LACSD narcotics detective) that told me "even with cops, like criminals, for every one that gets caught there dozens and even hundreds more incidents that go unchecked". The official statistics mean SQUAT on both sides. They can be manipulated in the same manner that the gun grabbers do theirs.


And this guy was one of them MMMMEEANNN ones. Hell, he even hated other cops.


I don't hate cops but I look at every single one I see with that same poker faced, scrutinizing X-ray set of eyes that they all have. Surely you know the look to which I refer ;) . I'm uncomfortably toooo familiar with the psychological nature of the beast. It's the job they chose and it's the price they pay for the burden of power and authority that they carry.


Peace to you all.




Offline bobg

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2012, 11:23:45 PM »
     Have to agree with finisher on this one. I KNOW from experience. I won't go into the whole story.
     The felony charges were dropped but i was charged with disturbing the peace.  Even the judge admitted the only reason i was charged with anything was to keep me from charging the troopers with an illegle arrest. My lawyer told me the way the troopers acted when they pulled me over i was damn lucky they didn't shoot me.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2012, 01:07:25 AM »
I guess it couldn't be that in the process of getting his gun out from the arkward way he was positioned he could have fumbled the gun or droped it causing it to go bang at bad time pointed in an unfortunate direction ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2012, 03:25:16 AM »
Police say they�re still investigating and haven�t ruled out the possibility that someone else may have shot Chavis Carter.  The officer involved is on leave while they investigate


This is a strange statement even from the media/cops. What is not stated is if they have a gun or not. windows are up on cop cars?

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2012, 04:14:19 AM »
All I will say on this subject is what a cop told me---they may beat the rap but they won't beat the ride.
I have sat around cops wh joked about opening both back doors and throwing a suspect thru the car and add attemped escape to the charges.
As much as cops defend their fellow cops----you have to admit that there is too much smoke for their to be NO fires.
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2012, 04:29:08 AM »
It looks like the police side of the story is supported by witness accounts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/03/chavis-carter-handduffed-shooting?newsfeed=true


A butler was seen fleeing the scene, first on foot and then in a UFO.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2012, 07:11:05 AM »
This is what the War on (some) Drugs has brought us: citizens suspected of selling a little weed, shooting themselves in the back of the head while handcuffed (behind back) in back of police car.


Yessirreeebob.

Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2012, 03:56:35 AM »
A long long time ago I was all liquored up and got tossed in jail for disorderly conduct. Even though they searched me it had an inside the pants holster on when I woke up the next morning. No gun though.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2012, 04:17:58 AM »
''the worse case of suicide they ever saw''


i guess that  distasteful and  old racial joke  is now a doper joke
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Weird situation for cops?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2012, 03:07:16 PM »
ITTLE ROCK, Ark. –  Police video recorded the night a young man was fatally shot in a northeast Arkansas patrol car while his hands were cuffed behind his back hasn't resolved questions about whether he shot himself in the head as officers said.
Jonesboro police released footage to The Associated Press and other news organizations under a Freedom of Information Act request this week. They released more footage Friday amid questions about why the first batch of video appeared to end before the officers found Chavis Carter, 21, slumped over and bleeding in the back of a patrol car on July 28 as described in a police report. Police have said officers had frisked Carter twice without finding a gun.
The second batch of video occurred after Carter was discovered, police said.
"There's still nothing in there about what actually happened with Chavis," Benjamin Irwin, a Memphis-based lawyer representing Carter's family, said Friday before the second batch of video had been released.
The internal police investigation into the shooting has not yet been completed. The FBI has said it is also monitoring the case.
Sgt. Lyle Waterworth, spokesman for the Jonesboro police, said Friday morning that he hadn't yet seen the video his department released the night before. Hours later, amid questions about the dashboard camera video, he agreed to release more footage that he said occurred after Carter was discovered.
No other dashboard camera video exists, he said, but additional video was retrieved during a forensic exam of Carter's phone. He said that remains part of the active investigation and wouldn't be released yet.
To explain stops in the video, he said the camera system in both patrol cars is controlled automatically with an emergency light bar and siren system.
"After the light bar is turned off the camera system ends its recording," Waterworth said in a statement. He didn't respond to email and phone messages seeking further comment.
The second batch of video begins as what looks like light from a police car flickers on a stretch of road. A dog barks and a white SUV turns around a little ways down the street.
An unseen man curses shortly after he says, "He was breathing a second ago." An ambulance pulls up and someone, perhaps the same man, says, "I patted him down. I don't know where he had it hidden."
Later, someone instructs the others to leave everything as it is.
The video goes on to show an officer cordoning off the area with police tape. Two people can be seen looking on, but they leave after interacting briefly with an officer.
Carter is not shown in that video.
The first batch of video begins when an officer pulls up to a white pickup truck on a dark street in Jonesboro, about 130 miles northeast of Little Rock. He talks to the driver, Carter and another passenger. Police say the officer stopped the truck after someone reported a suspicious vehicle driving up and down the road.
Another officer arrives and searches Carter, who police say initially gave a different name. The officer doesn't appear to find a gun as he pats Carter down, though something else falls to the ground as the officer shines a flashlight toward Carter.
The officer leads Carter, who is not yet handcuffed, toward the patrol cars and then out of the frame. A police report said Carter was placed in the second patrol car without handcuffs, though the video doesn't show that.
Meanwhile, the other officer searches the driver and remaining passenger, who then stand in front of the first patrol car. The officer who searched Carter asked them where the rest of the marijuana was because he found some on Carter.
The driver and other passenger are handcuffed and led out of the frame, too.
Eventually, they appear without handcuffs and the officers let them leave.
They keep Carter, who had an arrest warrant out of Mississippi. Court records show it had to do with a drug-related case.
The video ends after the truck drives away and the officers talk about leaving.
"See ya later," one of the officers says. It sounds like he opens the car door and then the audio cuts out. The police car's blue lights continue to flash for several seconds, lighting a nearby bush.
Carter was shot in the head, though police have refused to give more specifics.
Police said in a statement that they're still waiting on a complete autopsy report, forensics and toxicology results from the state crime lab.