Author Topic: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.  (Read 447 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« on: August 02, 2012, 03:05:49 PM »
Nestled beneath the picturesque mountains and cobalt blue skies of northern California is the shimmering deep-water Copco Lake teeming with fish—it’s where families like the Taits have vacationed for generations.
 
It’s the carefree fishing, exploration of rich geographical areas and the wildlife viewing of bald eagles and black-tailed deer that have lured Ken Tait and his wife Valletta to their vacation retreat for 32 years.
 
“It’s the great, hidden secret of California,” Tait says. “It would be a tragedy to destroy it.”
 
But that’s exactly what is happening.
 
Environmentalists, local Native American tribes and several government agencies want to tear down the four hydroelectric dams on the Klamath River—one of which created Copco Lake—that stretches 255 miles from Oregon to the Pacific Ocean.
 
Primarily the dams create clean energy to supply more than 70,000 homes and businesses in northern California and southern Oregon with electricity, but opponents say the dams must be destroyed to restore depleted fisheries and reinvigorate their upstream habitat.
 
Interestingly, a fish hatchery just below one of the dams produces five million salmon smolts a year, 17,000 of which return annually to spawn.
 
But those fish don’t count, says Rep. Tom McClintock (R-Calif.), chairman of the House Natural Resources subcommittee on water and power and the leading opponent on Capitol Hill of the dams’ demolition.
 
“Adding insult to insanity, when they remove the Iron Gate Dam, the fish hatchery goes with it,” McClintock said.
 
Genetically inferior
 
Environmentalists say hatchery fish are genetically inferior and lack the behavioral skills to survive in the wild, and should not be included in population counts.
 
“And yet science has not been able to define any conceivable difference between a hatchery fish and a fish born in the wild, than it’s been able to discern the difference between a baby born at home and a baby born at a hospital,” McClintock said.
 
“This is not about saving the salmon. This is about this bizarre new religion of the left, which reasons that mother Earth is suffering a terrible infestation of human beings and must be restored to its pristine, pre-historic condition. The only practical problem with that is it requires restoring the human population to its pristine, pre-historic condition. And that is not going to end well,” McClintock said.
 
“You laugh, but when you talk to these people, you realize that we are literally dealing with the lunatic fringe of our society, and they happen to be in control of our public policy on these matters because we’ve let them,” McClintock said.
 
It has been 50 years since PacifiCorp was last issued a license to operate the dams, a time when there was no Clean Water Act, no Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) forcing the agency to jump through bureaucratic hoops.
 
When the license expired in 2004, environmentalists and tribes took advantage of the process to push for demolition, while federal agencies demanded that PacifiCorp spend $400 million to construct bypasses around the dams for the fish. The complicated process also involves tribal treaty rights for Native Americans and water rights for farmers.
 
After years of negotiations, lawsuits by environmentalists, and an EPA ruling that further blocked PacifiCorp’s chance of getting needed permits to operate the dams, the company had few choices to consider and in 2008 announced that removing the dams would be the cheapest alternative for its customers. PacifiCorp, based in Portland, serves 1.7 million customers in eight states, including Oregon, northern California, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Colorado, Montana and Arizona. It is owned by MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co., which is controlled by investor Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway. Besides 44 hydro systems, PacifiCorp operates 14 coal mines and facilities, 13 wind systems and more than a half-dozen natural gas and geothermal operations. The company reported $4.6 billion in operating revenue for 2011.
 
Reopen spawning habitat
 
Dismantling the four dams would reopen hundreds of miles of spawning habitat on the Klamath River for Coho salmon—which are not native to the river—as well as Chinook, steelhead, and lamprey that opponents of the dams say are dangerously close to extinction. Using the dams to divert water to farmers and cities also creates toxic algae and parasites that contaminate the water built up behind the dams, opponents say.
 
It would be the largest dam removal project in California’s history if Congress and Interior Secretary Ken Salazar approve it at an estimated cost of nearly $300 million. PacifiCorp customers are expected to pay $200 million; another $100 million would come from California taxpayers while federal taxpayers will pay for the Interior Department’s work. By comparison, the price tag for PacifiCorp to keep the dams operational is $500 million.
 
PacifiCorp operates more than 40 hydro facilities in the western U.S., and while they have agreed to remove some of their dams on the Klamath River, they are forging ahead with the burdensome and costly license renewal process to keep dam operations on the North Umpqua River in Oregon and Lewis River in Washington.
 
“For us, it’s about what decision produces the least-cost, least-risk option for our customers and the company,” said Bob Gravely, PacifiCorp spokesman.
 
“Usually that decision comes when we have to renew a license. Does it make more sense from a cost and risk perspective to make the capital investments and adjust operations to continue operating a dam under the terms of a new license or does it make more sense to decommission the project and replace the power? It can go either way depending on the circumstances,” Gravely said.
 
Squandering $250 million
 
McClintock offers another alternative: “We’re told that yes, this is expensive, but it will cost less than retrofitting the dams to meet cost-prohibitive environmental requirements,” the congressman said during a House floor speech last year. “If that is the case, then maybe we should re-think those requirements, not squander more than a quarter billion dollars to destroy existing hydro-electric dams. Or here’s a modest suggestion to address the salmon population—count the hatchery fish.”
 
The dams would be replaced in 2020 with wind and solar power operations to provide electricity, MClintock says, but he warns that the intermittent nature of solar and wind means they are an unreliable sole source of energy.
 
“You may have noticed that when a cloud passes over the sun, or the sun goes down, or the wind falls off, the generating capacity of these solar and wind projects drops suddenly, unpredictably and precipitously,” McClintock said.
 
The numerous stakeholders in the operation reached an agreement in 2010 that the dams should be removed, prompting new scientific and environmental analysis with the Interior Department wielding the power to say whether or not the dams stay.
 
However, Salazar missed the March 31 deadline to make his decision. His spokesman told Human Events that the delay was due to Congress’s failure to pass legislation authorizing the Obama administration to move forward.
 
Asked whether Congress will give Salazar that authority, McClintock explained:
 
“Over my dead body.”
 
The multi-million dollar removal project also requires Congress to approve the federal funding, but a spokesman for House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Doc Hastings (R-Wash.) told Human Events that any request for money to tear down the dam faces the congressman’s determined opposition.
 
The chairman also weighed in on the Obama administration’s actions last year to include the entire nation in on the decision-making process, and to pay them for their troubles.
 
Some 10,000 households received surveys in the mail asking them to help measure the societal and economic value of removing the dams. The surveys included a $2 bill, along with a promise to pay respondents another $20 for mailing the survey back to government bureaucrats before the deadline.
 
“This is as maddening as it is wasteful,” Hastings said at the time.
 
Copco Lake—its name derived from the California Oregon Power Company—was artificially created by one of the dams in 1919.
 
Former President Herbert Hoover used to vacation there, so did Western novelist Zane Grey and the intrepid explorer Amelia Earhart. Today, nearly 150 vacation homes dot the landscape.
 
“It’s not a big resort, but people love the fishing, which will all be gone,” Tait said.
 
With the threat of the dam’s demolition looming and the prospect of the glimmering waters replaced by an arid lakebed filled with sagebrush, property values have already plunged.
 
The Taits intended that their four children and nine grandchildren would inherit the family’s vacation home, but now they fear there will be nothing left for their future generations.
 
“It’s just criminal that they are thinking of taking it down, and it’s all about the fish,” Tait said. “It’s government run amok. It’s really a shame.”



http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/01/radical-environmentalists-push-to-destroy-dams-to-reopen-salmon-spawning-habitat/
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 03:21:35 PM »
Looks like it would be better to add salmon ladders to the exsisting dams. Have a lot bigger estuary and create a wad load of jobs. Might have to build an additional river in essence, but what is money to the government. ear





Have a lot larger estuary
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 03:23:15 PM »
They use the idea that it opens the way for Salmon, Steelhead, and other species to spawn in the river.  But those fish are not native to that river.  The only way they can spawn there is if they are artifically introduced.  If introduced they will become an invasive species.  EPA is required to remove invasive species.  So they are going to remove this dam for no real reason, and harm the current beautiful environment.  Once the lake is gone, nothing but sagebrush flats will be there. 
 
I personally feel this is a situation of the lazy, no account, environmentalist knowing they will never be able to have a spot on the beautiful lake, (cause they won't hold a reguler job)saying if I can't have a spot there then I don't want anyone to have such a nice place.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2012, 03:01:48 AM »
This is just more of the on-going efforts of the silly environazis to push us back into the pre-industrial age.  Fish is just one of the stupid excuses they use to justify their looney tunes ideas.  They have already torn down an old dam on one of our small rivers on the Olympic Peninsula.  The indians and the environmentalists are expecting 100 pound salmon to return to that river.  I wouldn't hold my breath for that one.
 
What all of this ignors is the extreme predation of salmon by seals, sea lions and enormous populations of salmon eating birds.  Yes, this is nature doing its thing, but nature does not do a great job of managing anything.  It's a continuous cycle of feast and famine and it might be eons between the high points.  When the commercial fishermen used to manage the seal and sea lion population, we had enormous salmon runs.  Actually, it has gotten so bad in recent years that even the feds have allowed supervised killing of sea lions, but the private environazis fight it at every turn.
 
My suggestion is that those who oppose hydro electricity should not be allowed to use it.  They should be hooked up to those wind generators and solar thingies and that's it.  And they shouldn't be allowed to fish for, or eat salmon.
Swingem

Offline jhm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2012, 04:52:09 AM »
     I knew all those karosene lanterns I have been collecting over the yrs. would be a handy investment for me, I am going to be RICH selling them to the enviro-idiots, does anyone know where I can get my hands on some of those miners lamps?  I will open me a store up in Northan Cal. must show I.D. and prove you are not a liberal to purchase.  Jim

Offline kennyd

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 528
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2012, 08:42:44 AM »
How far back would you all like to go?  I would settle for the 1830's.  Give me a caplock, horse, and buckskins.  Or maybe go back further to a long flintlock.  Bow anyone?  Or maybe just go to the BP cartridge era.


These same people see nothing wrong with covering miles of "wastland" with solar panels to power "their" electric car, just not ours.


A lot of technology causes it's own problems and inentended consequences, but on the other hand I would have died young from a tumor, wife would have died from appendix, or at least breast cancer later.  We have to live i n the world ivilization created whether we like it or not.
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not watching you

Offline snapdragon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012, 12:02:34 PM »
It does not sound to me like those dams should be removed.  The reasons they give don't seem to hold water, so to speak.  The environment along and in the river has already been altered drastically by the building of the lake and would be a long time going back to the previous conditions if it ever would.  I do not have personal firsthand knowledge of those lakes, but have spent a great deal of my life dealing with TVA lakes.  It would be as a bad an idea to tear those dams down as it would be to remove the ones on the Klamath.  The lakes have become part of the environment and have their own set of plants, animals, and physical characteristics that would be destroyed by the removal of the dams.  Humans benefit greatly from those dams in a variety of ways, and removing the dams would have very bad effects on many people.

You can rarely go home again.  You have to live with what is available now.   

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2012, 01:25:53 PM »
They never should have been built in the first place.  As for TVA, they ruined Tennessee and stole thousands of acres of private property to do it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline snapdragon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 03:03:21 PM »
Building the dams in the first place and tearing them down after they have been in place for a long time are two different things. 

I have very mixed feelings about TVA.  That is a different discussion that could take a long time.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2012, 07:55:32 PM »
I grew up with TVA.  While the TVA dams gave us the cheapest electricity in the nation, there was a second far more benificial side effect.  Flood Control, I remember how the people complained about how they were washed out every few years when it flooded during the torrential rains that come there.  I saw pictures of small ankle deep streams with houses floating down stream.  I remember hearing my grand Parents talking about how many were killed when the floods came.  There was no way to predict when it was going to flood, it just happened.  Homes that had been in that hollow for 50 to 60 years were suddenly washed away.

I grew up on Old Hickory Lake.  The lake has created it's own economy.  Fishing, Water Skiing, Boating, as well as all the homes that have been built on and around the lake.  The Dams also backed up water and made the Cumberland and Tennessee rivers deep enough for commercial river traffic. 

The loss of any of those dams would devistate the economies of the area.

TVA was not the only government project that removed people from their lands.  The Manhatten Project took land from ranchers in New Mexico, many of which had to be forcibly removed.  Even the Chena River Flood Control Project, just a mile from my house, was forciably taken from the homesteader in 1979, who lived there.  I knew the old guy, Leo Morris.  I had rented a house from Leo, the foundation of which is still out there on the flood plain.  Old Leo decided not to give up his land without a fight.  He held the State Troopers at bay for three days when they tried to evict him and Grace his wife.   
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Environmentalists want dams torn down for the salmon.
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2012, 09:14:13 PM »
Change is hard to accept---you need someone who has a plan and who you can trust. I know that person.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD