Author Topic: Volley gun project  (Read 2892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Volley gun project
« on: August 06, 2012, 01:30:29 PM »
I've been wanting to build a breech loading multi barrel gun for a while and I finally started on one.  I am making this like the Requa volley gun of the Civil War.  The Gatling guns are cool but there's a lot of them around.  I don't see too many of these.  This one will be a 12 barrel model [that's what I currently have enough material for].  I have enough material for 13 barrels but some think that's unlucky so I'll stick with 12.  The barrels will be about 18"overall length including the breech sleeves and are 50 caliber. I was facing the tubes this evening and the bolt broke on my mandrel that I use to chuck the tubes in the lathe.  I have to face the end facing the chuck because the tubes are too long for the lathe.  I replace the bolt with a grade 8.   More photos to come as work continues.





Broken facing mandrel  :(

Offline Artilleryman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 02:06:30 PM »
Looking forward to seeing this project progress.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline carmy53

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 196
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 02:11:12 PM »
Dom,
If you put this up for sale after you finish the build I want to be first in line to buy it!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline cannonmn

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3345
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 05:17:04 PM »
Quote
I was facing the tubes this evening and the bolt broke on my mandrel that I use to chuck the tubes in the lathe.

'an alla that damage just 'cause ya looked at it?
 
 
 
 
 
sorry Dom, couldn't resist, now I'll go to my room.

Offline Cannoneer

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3950
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 11:11:34 PM »
Dom,
I've been interested in these upon first seeing them, so this will be a project to keep an eye on.

http://www.virginialighthorse.freeservers.com/catalog.html
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 02:56:28 AM »
     Dom, looks like another winner for you.  I believe it is the unique "Look" of that weapon that makes it so fascinating.  Your mind fairly races to imagine what sort of mayhem it could cause at the other end of a bridge, mountain pass or avenue of approach.  Because we want you to be around for a long time making these and all the other cool ordnance you make, please be extra cautious about reloading this one.  During cleaning, consider using an alcohol sponge after your wet and dry ones to remove the last vestige of moisture from each tube.  Hang-fires could be a real "beach" in such a weapon!!  Please consider pointing it into the dirt or off to one side when you go down range to check your target!


Quote
I was facing the tubes this evening and the bolt broke on my mandrel that I use to chuck the tubes in the lathe.

'an alla that damage just 'cause ya looked at it?          sorry Dom, couldn't resist, now I'll go to my room.   


      Cannonmn,    I thought the same thing as soon as I read that.  Now I have been trying to figure out why.  Obviously we both know the meaning of “facing the tubes” in machinist’s parlance, and that meaning is certainly in context here, so WHY would we instantly think of the other meanings of “facing”?

     In my opinion it is simply more common to be facing down a snarling dog or facing up to some challenge which confronts you.  Or one could be “facing the music” after a military court-martial.  In thinking about this, I’ve also noticed that, while “facing your problems squarely” is considered noble by most people, the vast majority of “facing” usages could have dire consequences.  Just consider the following:


                   The lawman found himself facing the fastest gun in the territory.

                   During the earthquake, the building’s brick facing came down all around him.

                   Facing the angry mob didn’t work out too well for Robespierre or Marie-Antoinette.

                   And worst of all, in “facing Medusa”, of Greek Mythology, you could reach the end of your 
                   days in an instant as you turned to stone. 
   
Food for thought,

Tracy                               
 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2853
  • Gender: Male
    • seacoastartillery.com
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 10:37:23 AM »
     Dom have you worked out a method of ignition yet?

Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 11:47:24 AM »
Dom,
That's one that's been on my "TO DO" list for a while..... looks like a good start.....
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 02:06:09 PM »
Quote
I was facing the tubes this evening and the bolt broke on my mandrel that I use to chuck the tubes in the lathe.

'an alla that damage just 'cause ya looked at it?
 
 
 
 
 
sorry Dom, couldn't resist, now I'll go to my room.

Ok, I didn't get it til I read Tracy's post.  :)   I was still in machinist's mode when I first read it.
 
     Dom, looks like another winner for you.  I believe it is the unique "Look" of that weapon that makes it so fascinating.  Your mind fairly races to imagine what sort of mayhem it could cause at the other end of a bridge, mountain pass or avenue of approach.  Because we want you to be around for a long time making these and all the other cool ordnance you make, please be extra cautious about reloading this one.  During cleaning, consider using an alcohol sponge after your wet and dry ones to remove the last vestige of moisture from each tube.  Hang-fires could be a real "beach" in such a weapon!!  Please consider pointing it into the dirt or off to one side when you go down range to check your target!
     
                                    Tracy                               
 

Tracy,  I gave that much thought and that's why it will be a breechloader.  It will have a connected strip of (12) 2-1/2" long cartridge sleeves [each one aligned behind a barrel] with a powder tray across the top. A lanyard and percussion will ignite the powder in the tray. The reloading of these short sleeves would be similar to a cap and ball revolver instead of the full length of each barrel as with your typical muzzleloader.  The sleeves would also be removed from the gun before I take a trip down range.
 
I am thinking of using a slow burning powder like smokeless in the ignition tray to slow down the rate of fire where it would sound more like a machine gun.  Any thoughts on that?  Dom

Offline Victor3

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 07:27:50 PM »
I am thinking of using a slow burning powder like smokeless in the ignition tray to slow down the rate of fire where it would sound more like a machine gun.  Any thoughts on that?  Dom

 When I first read your post, smokeless for the powder train came to mind. BP would set 'em all off so quick, loading and firing it would be like preparing thanksgiving dinner for two days and watching the family turn the turkey into a skeleton in 20 minutes.
 
 My idle mind went into devil's workshop mode, so I dug out a bundle of 6" long 3/16 ID x 5/16 OD 304 seamless tubes. I have enough to make a BB volley gun with ~100 barrels.  ;D
 
 I was thinking to take a 1/2 x 1" bar of 303 I've got, bore 20 holes and heat-shrink the tubes into it. Flash holes and a groove milled for the powder train and voila; a muzzle-loading mouse blaster.  :)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2012, 03:33:34 AM »
I finished the fabrication work on the volley gun.  I reduced it to 7 barrels from the original plan of 12.  The tubes are cold drawn seamless and the bore is not centered with the OD of the tube, so I could not use the cartridge sleeve idea for the breeches.  It's off centered about 15 thousands.   What I did instead was to make a heavy breech block that butts up behind the tubes.  The threaded rod and crank holds it firmly against the rear of the barrels.  The two bolts on the top of the block are the temporary handles for lifting the breech block.  I will video the test firing. 
 





Offline cannonmn

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3345
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2012, 05:15:08 AM »
Here's my 32-barrel muzzle-loader volley gun in action, if anyone wants to build a simpler device, this might give you some ideas.
 

Since someone always asks, that's Ed's 40mm rifled B/L in the background.  He got a section of 40mm barrel from my business then gave his specs with it, to a machine shop, and that cannon was the result.

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2012, 05:31:25 AM »
Here's my 32-barrel muzzle-loader volley gun in action, if anyone wants to build a simpler device, this might give you some ideas.
 

Since someone always asks, that's Ed's 40mm rifled B/L in the background.  He got a section of 40mm barrel from my business then gave his specs with it, to a machine shop, and that cannon was the result.

I like that 32 barrel volley gun and must have seen the video of it at least 20 times.  I have in the planning stage a smaller muzzle loader volley gun similar to it only with one row of barrels. Your video got me hooked on these things.  ;D

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2012, 05:56:15 AM »
Interesting concept though I am troubled by the centerd lockup..... I think you may want one near either end..... I am interested in seeing the test firing on this one..... Dom, don't take it as critisim I tend to overengineer ......
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2012, 11:14:14 AM »
KABAR,  thanks for pointing this out.  I gave it a bit of thought prior to installing the single screw. I wanted the quickest and simplest reloading method possible.  I feel the single screw is sufficient because of the rigidness and weight of the breechblock.  It is solid 1-1/4" x 2" steel.  Since there is only one barrel firing at a time, only one barrel will be trying to separate the block from the rear of the all of barrels.  When Number one barrel fires, the breech block will momentarily be loaded against number seven barrel with a force slightly less than what # 1 barrel will exert and at the very most, roughly double on the center screw.  There should not be any flex in the unit ample enough to cause separation.  I'm making up aluminum foil cartridges that should seal most if not all of the gas leakage between the block and the rear of the barrel.  I still need the mill across the rear of the barrels to have a tight mating surface with all of the barrels and the block assembly.  If there is an unforseen problem with this arrangement it will be changed.  What do you think?  Dom

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2012, 12:47:59 PM »
Only change I would make is to close the top of the back part (make it like a deep channel) so the part the screw is mounted to cannot deflect due to the unsupported top.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2012, 01:19:41 PM »
Only change I would make is to close the top of the back part (make it like a deep channel) so the part the screw is mounted to cannot deflect due to the unsupported top.

  Good idea!  Thanks.

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2012, 12:54:40 PM »
Dom,
Sounds well thought out, my only thought is while each barrel fires one at a time it is a very short time between firings in fact the next barrel may already be engaged as the pressure curve from the first is dropped off.... this will be an interesting test.... wishing success!
 
Allen <><
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2012, 01:27:29 PM »
Allen,  I am thinking of changing the the breech block to replicate the Requa gun.  I  may change it to two smaller tightening screws at each end anyway and have two levers at each to lift out the breech block. I'm also changing to fine thread on the locking bolts.  Dom

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 12:40:36 PM »
Well Allen I liked your idea and went with it. Thanks.  In addition to the two locking bolts, I made it resemble a requa gun more closely.  I added the levers for opening the breech.  The Requa patent show 7 barrels and there is a reenactor's replica that is also 7 barrels.  I don't feel so bad reducing it to 7 barrels from the original 12.
 







Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2012, 02:35:48 PM »
Still think you should close the top of the breech screw bay.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2012, 01:17:52 AM »
Still think you should close the top of the breech screw bay.
 
 
I wasn't sure whether it's still needed with the bolts closer to the side frames.  Wouldn't hurt to add it anyway so I will.  Thanks.

Offline Story

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2012, 06:33:47 AM »
The storage chest on some of the originals always reminded me of a dart board cabinet
http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/machinegun.htm

Given the size of yours, you could probably repurpose one.

What sort of carriage or mount are you planning to make?

Offline KABAR2

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2012, 12:57:08 PM »
Now that looks much better! I take it that the breech block is allowed to slide on the frame so the locking bolts jam it forward?
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2012, 01:41:08 PM »
Now that looks much better! I take it that the breech block is allowed to slide on the frame so the locking bolts jam it forward?

Yes,  There's a few thousands clearance to allow free movemnt of the breech block.  The bolt only need to be loosened less than A 1/4 turn to lift the block out.  I also closed in the top of the angle to form a channel.  That makes it look better too.

Offline skratch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 72
  • Gender: Male
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2012, 02:35:34 PM »
I was thinking of an adjustable cam over lock up on each end of the breach block levers. Similar to the cam levers in the old 73 Winchester rifles. More complicated than your design though. I too tend to over engineer.   ;D  Good work !


John...

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2012, 03:41:36 PM »
The storage chest on some of the originals always reminded me of a dart board cabinet
http://www.floridareenactorsonline.com/machinegun.htm

Given the size of yours, you could probably repurpose one.

What sort of carriage or mount are you planning to make?


Thanks for the link.  Interesting info on the Williams and Alger guns.  I'm not decided on the mount yet.  I'm thinking of either a simple stand or a field carriage with 20" wheels.

Offline oltom

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 135
  • Gender: Male
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2012, 07:06:53 AM »
  The Gatling guns are cool but there's a lot of them around. 

I disagree!!!!!!!!
I always wanted to be a machinist JUST to be able to make my own 45-70 gatlin gun~!

the steel/brass/wood would be a beautiful project and when done......shoot it!!!!!!!!

*sigh*
"MORE booze!"

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2013, 02:26:54 AM »
I thought I'd bring this to the top of the posts.  As soon as I get some some photos from the guy who bought it, I'll post them of the completed gun with carriage.

Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: Volley gun project Lots of pics.
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2013, 03:18:11 AM »
I finally had help tio figure out how to upload the photos from my cell phone that I took of the volley gun.  Here they are.  Sorry for the poor quality, the photos stored as thumbnails on the phone.