Faux Big Bore Solids

[AtlLaw]

Thinking about my soon to have 50-140 Sharps got me to thinking shooting solids out of it.  Why?  I dunno...    But I want to duplicate the old classic 500 NE round.  Same same duplicating the 450 NE ballistics with my 45-120.
 
Now, jacketed bullets for those rounds ain't exactly a dime a dozen!     So naturally I'll be shooting cast bullets.  Which got me to thinking... 
 
Can a bullet be made, through alloying and heat treating, to be close to the hardness of a factory "solid?"   
 
I believe pure Linotype would be to brittle... 
 
What 'cha think? 

[Graybeard]

No and no.

No lead alloy is gonna be very close to the hardness of a jacketed solid but it can sure be close enough to get the job done.

I've made and shot tens of thousands of pure linotype bullets. Like all others they shatter to smiderins on steel plates but do just fine on everything else I've hit with them. I can't imagine anything you'd be shooting with them that they would not hold up fine on if it matters. What happens when they hit steel doesn't matter to my mind cuz all of them shatter on it.

I found one of my bullets long ago cast of pure linotype. It had hit a steel plate and one side of it was gone and the other looked like new other than the rifling marks. The bullet must have hit the plate almost dead center of the bullet right on the edge of the plate. The half that didn't touch metal just sheared off from what did.

I'm of the opinion that folks who put down pure linotype as not suitable just really don't have a lot of personal experience shooting it. I do.

[gypsyman]

The only reason I don't use pure lino is that it's awful hard to come by nowdays. Got a few hundred pounds stashed, and use it when I deem neccessary. Greybeard is right, pure lino should do anything that a mixture can do. gypsyman

[jhalcott]

  When I worked in the steel mill they had a coating called "Galvalume" for certain products. It "looked" like molten lead and was melted in large pots. I found it could be cast just like lead bullets.Others had tried to make and shoot them with little to no success. I finally used the lightest loads for like weight JACKETED slugs and got some good to excellent results. The 180 grain molds dropped galvalume slugs around 150 grains. So I used minimum 150 grain powder loads. ALL the guns I used were military surplus from LEE & Sunny surplus and other cheap sources. ALL the bores suffered from this test though! They were litterally worn out from the abrasive qualities of the alloy. IF you NEED any thing harder than Lino, you are using the wrong gun! Besides, wont the pressure of those solids be dangerous in your new gun??

[AtlLaw]

GrayBeard wrote:
"No and no.

I'm of the opinion that folks who put down pure linotype as not suitable just really don't have a lot of personal experience shooting it. I do."
 
Thanks Cuz!  In all these years I have never found reason to question you opinions or advice!     Gee!  All of a sudden I want to sing Cum-by-ya!   
 
Seems to me I recently read an article and the author said something about linotype disintegrating on bone.  But I don't think I've ever even touched the stuff myself.    No matter, I was just wondering if a lead bullet could be made hard enough to go through an elephant's skull.   

jhalcott wrote:
"wont the pressure of those solids be dangerous in your new gun??"

Shouldn't be...    The operating pressure of the 500 NE is within the Handy Rifle's limits.  Supposedly 40,600 psi drives a 570 gr. bullet to 2150 fps. 

[Graybeard]

In days of old when men were bold and powder was black they shot elephants with pretty much pure lead balls from those monster two and four bore guns. Iffen it would do it then I see no reason it can't do it now.

I've never shot an elephant in the brain with anything so can't say from personal experience what the outcome would be. I think I'd use the most modern of bullets should I attempt such a thing but since I don't think you're planning to actually shoot an elephant in the brain anytime soon I'm sure cast bullets will do fine for a recreation of the idea.

[AtlLaw]

I'm sure cast bullets will do fine for a recreation of the idea.

And that's exactly what it is Bill'um... Just for grins!   
 
If I were ever able to afford an elephant hunt I'm sure the $85 price per 50 Hornady Solids would be the last of my financial concerns!   

[twoshooter]

I do not claim to be an expert, but I have heard that wheel weights, and other lead alloys with a percentage of the lead as arsenate are heat treatable. I know from experience that quenching my wheelweight bullets do make them significantly harder than letting them cool slowly. I have heard that heat treating can elevate the number to 27- 28 on the hardness scale. Linotype is 22 to 24, is that not right ?

[AtlLaw]

I'd heard the same thing 2 s'r...  I have found that dropping WW bullets from the mould into water makes them measureably harder, but I have no idea how some commercial casters get their's up in the 20's like they advertise. 

[Nobade]

They use commercial "hardball" alloy. That is 92% lead, 2% tin, 6% antimony. Linotype is 84% lead, 4% tin, 12% antimony. (which is why it makes such light bullets)

That hardball alloy comes out around 21 BHN as cast, but if you oven heat treat it. (as close as you can get to slumping, or about 475 deg. for an hour and VERY QUICKLY quench in water they will go to 30 BHN)

Lino will not heat treat, something about it being a eutectic and for some reason won't harden any more than it already is. A real metals guy could maybe shed some light on that.  But the hardball metal, or wheelweights, or even a mixture of range scrap with a significant percentage of hardball metal in it, will harden up considerably to the point where your big fifty can shoot through very large trees and the bullets will still look quite nice. They're not as hard as steel jacketed solids or turned brass bullets, but there's not much living on this planet that can stop them and they are hard all the way through. Great fun to go bust big rocks into little ones with!

[Bugflipper]

Here's a heat treating article. http://www.lasc.us/brennan_4-5_heattreat.htm