Suggesting Hunting Rifles

[Swampman]

Frequently I have folks asking me which deer rifle they should buy.  My current answer is....a Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather Stainless .30-06 or .270 with the new Leupold VX-2 3-9X40 mounted in Talley LW rings.  IMO this combo is the very best you can get for the money.

[Brithunter]

Just did a quick web search and found that they cost just over a thousand bucks    and that's almost double the price of a Howa and the Tikka T3 Lite Stainless Synthetic in .30-06 is under $800.

I wonder what make you think/say that the Winchester is the best value for the money?

[Cheesehead]

Frequently I have folks asking me which deer rifle they should buy.  My current answer is....a Winchester Model 70 Extreme Weather Stainless .30-06 or .270 with the new Leupold VX-2 3-9X40 mounted in Talley LW rings.  IMO this combo is the very best you can for the money.

If this rifle combination came in a short action and a chambering of 308 Winchester with a detachable clip, I would agree completely.

Cheese

[Swampman]

I try to discourage folks away from short action rifles.  If the Model 70 came without a floorplate like the ADL Remingtons I'd like it even better.  Better feeding and less prone to fail I believe.

[Lloyd Smale]

Id go with a model 70 or model 700 rem. Stainless or blued, walnut or plastic totaly a personal thing. Me I have lots of both but if i could only have one rifle it would definately be blued, walnut. As to calibers about anything from a 708, 308,270,280,06 up to a 7mag will do the job. Again if I absolutely had to pick only one round it would be the 06. Its tough to make a  really specific caliber recomendation unless i know exactly where the guy is hunting. Bottom line though is he sure wouldnt be making a mistake under any circumstances with your choise swampy. personaly i prefer a floor plate or magazine expecially for a young or inexperienced rifleman. Lots easier for them to unload. If i had my druthers id take the rem detach mag over any of them. I really dont care for the looks of the mag button but its really nice to be able to just carry a spare mag in your pocket and theres not a much faster way to reload a bolt gun. Granted for most hunting its not a consern but ive been in the fields crop damage shooting when ive put down 5 or 6 deer about as a fast as i can get the cross hairs swung from one to another. When i dont have  detach mag i try to keep it topped off but its not allways possible and ive a few times had 3 deer down and could have had more if i could have reloaded faster. I dont like cramming 4 rounds into a bolt gun as ive had feeding problems doing it so i load one in the chamber and two in the well. With a rem clip i can reliably load 4 in a mag (3 with my stw) and one in the tube.

[Swampman]

The Model 70 holds 5 in the magazine and one in the chamber.  That's one more than the Model 700.  I rarely have more than 2 in the magazine.

[cwlongshot]

One could certainly do FAR worse for not following swampy's advice given in first post.

(I'm SHOCKED, it's a Winchester and not a beloved remmy that he's recomended)

CW

[Lloyd Smale]

im pretty much a rem 700 fan myself but do own rugers and winchesters and weatherbys too. Id have to admit though that the finest mass produced bolt gun ever is the newer winchesters. Fit and finish is better then remingtons and the newer 70s shoot just as well to boot. A winchester featherweight would surely be a top choise of mine for an only rifle.

[GeneRector]

   Howdy! One of the best things about a forum is the wisdom of several or more people who have "been there, done that" using a variety of tools, techniques, etc. I like to hear and see with an open mind what others recommend in firearms, ammo, hunting equipement, etc. All of which is valuable when choosing your own firearms, etc. Always, Gene
 
 

[Brithunter]

Hmmm interesting .................................... not one answer to my question........................... Oh well.

[Scibaer]

is a winchester all that much better then a tikka, howa or even a remington to warrent $1000 buy-in to be called the best you can get for the money ? i dunno, i got a 700 that i paid $499 for and savage for$350 that are great rifles, shoot better then me and i suspect that they will last me a lifetime.   i got  marlin , circa 1949  that looks and fuctions like brand new and puts down whitetails like they got hit by  a car. and my savage and remmy are both short action rifles.. what is the problems with them then ?
 

[Swampman]

It's a violation of the forum rules to anwser people that you have on ignore and I'm not.
The new FN made Model 70 Extreme Weather Stainless has a useable stock that you won't have to replace.  The workmanship, fit, and finish are excellent.  It has a trigger that isn't going to give you trouble or need to be replaced.  It holds an extra round.  It will likely shoot sub-MOA.  It is CRF and has a 3 position safety.  FN's ability to achieve excellent accuracy and provide other desireable features has swayed me.  It rivals the Kimber 84 Montana......

[Scibaer]

well, what is the problem with short action rifles, that you recommend that people stay away from them ?

[Empty Quiver]

I would not hesitate to add a T-3 Tikka with same scope and chambering for someone on a more limited budget, Swampy. Depending on the individual a Marlin 336 or even a Savage bolt might get the nod.
 
However if this is a farmer looking for a tractor / combine gun there is nothing finer than a stainless / synthetic Mini 14. Those things are the Crescent Wrench of the gun world.

[Swampman]

The 270 & .30-06 feed better IMO than any of the short or magnum chamberings except the .300H&H.  Used  a .308 for years (still do) but you are giving up performance for no good reason.  The Tikka has too many plastic parts.  Other than the accuracy there isn't anything I like about a Savage boltgun.  The 336 is so limited in range and accuracy that I don't take mine if I'm serious about meat.  The Mini-14 is only a little better than the .336 and I have no love for it.

[Brithunter]

   I see a BIG plastic part on that Winchester your recommending ..................................... the stock.


Whilst I am no fan of plastics on rifles including the stocks having handled and shot several Tikka T3's including the Lite and the Tactical one has to admit they do shoot well right out of the box. The T3 trigger is of course adjustable but lot's find them perfect out of the box and never adjust them.


I also recall it was only the other Week ole SM was telling every one that the Mauser types cannot be accurate due to that extractor which of course is controlled round feeding  [size=78%].[/size]

[size=78%]Now I would like to see, handle and shoot one of the new Winchester Model 70's but god only knows when and if I'll get the chance.[/size]

[Lloyd Smale]

I could never warm up to the looks of a tikka. Nothing wrong mechanicaly with them and they sure seem to shoot well though. I do like the winchesters but would be the first to say they sure seem to be pretty proud of them when you look at the hang tag on one. Theyve definately took steps to make a better rifle but have for the most part taken it out of a comparison with a ruger, rem, or savage and up into the price of semi customs like kimbers. Same can be said though of remington lately. Sure they make cheaper guns but price a cdl or sendero and there right up there with a 70 featherweight. In the senderos case its even more.

[Swampman]

I'm seeing new blued Featherweights for $750.00.  That's cheaper than a CDL.  They are pretty too.....

[Dave in WV]

The only down side to a long action is most scopes are on the short side these days. If you don't want to crawl the stock or use extention rings to move the scope back choices are limited.

[wareagleguy]

I never understood the 30-06 is better than the old 308 when almost everyone uses ammo with 150gr bullets.  The two are almost a dead even tie with those rounds.  If you going to the trouble of working the bolt of a long action at least either get a different caliber or heavier projectiles.

[Swampman]

I shoot 180s in my .30-06s the difference is huge.  The .30-06 likes heavy bullets as it was designed to shoot 220 grain bullets.  The .308 is fine for deer.

[Brithunter]

I shoot 180s in my .30-06s the difference is huge.  The .30-06 likes heavy bullets as it was designed to shoot 220 grain bullets.  The .308 is fine for deer.

My god Sm does not even know the history of he US cartridge 1906  .


06= 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps.


it was the 1903 30-03 cartridge that used the same 220 grain bullet that the previous Krag 30-40 used.


Now that must be embarrassing having to have a Brit point out the facts and history of the US military cartridges    . After a real crappy day that has made me smile ............................................. Thank you swampman.

[Spanky]

Knock it off Brit.   The bossman has told you several times to stop the bs with Swampy and here you are once again trying to egg him on. leave it alone already.
 
 
 
Spanky

[Brithunter]

It's a bit like politics here it seems. one must allow and swallow all sorts of BS from some but woe betide any that point out the B/S. 


I was not egging him on just pointing out once agin the total B/S the "he" spouts.

[Lloyd Smale]

I can gurantee you that in identical rifles i can get another 150 fps out of a 150 in an o6 with some creative handloading and still have a safe load. What to many look at is the loading books. They run 308 pressures much higher then 06 pressures due to the fact theres old supposidly weak 06s out there. run them both at the same pressures and the 06 will woop the 308 even with 150s.

I never understood the 30-06 is better than the old 308 when almost everyone uses ammo with 150gr bullets.  The two are almost a dead even tie with those rounds.  If you going to the trouble of working the bolt of a long action at least either get a different caliber or heavier projectiles.

[Swampman]

When they converted the .30-03 rifles to .30-06 they stuck with the old twist.  I agree Floyd it's easy to load some .30-06+p loads in modern rifles.  Most of the velocity that Ackley gained in his wildcats was by increased pressure.  Just think of the .30-06 as a .308 Winchester AI and all of a sudden it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  The 7.62X51 was designed to work well in automatic weapons and to reduce the size and weight of the ammo the troops had to haul around.  It does that well.  It's a good woods deer cartridge IMO.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree swampy but i wouldnt quite relegate it to just woods hunting. the 308 is a fine round out to 300 yards and loaded properly the o6 adds a good 50 yards to that limit. Now before anyone gets up in arms and claims either  will kill out well past that. Its not my first rodeo ive used both for shots quite a bit farther but ive shot alot of deer at long range. Probably more them most and ive got pretty definate ideas on what the optimum range is for a given round. I not only want the dead but want them dead within 25 yards of where they were hit. When shots are possible in an area im hunting that may push 400 yards or more youll see me with some sort of magnum rifle. It may not be needed but it does make hitting deer a bit easier and it definatly makes finding them a bit easier.

[helotaxi]

Well, for those of us in our right minds (southpaws), the Win 70s are out since they don't consider us part of their consumer base and don't make a rifle for us.  I've yet to handle a Rem that I liked, though I was really close to buying a SPS Varmint lefty that I found for a really good price (the 1:12 rate of twist turned me off and broke the deal). 

I really like my Savages and my accuracy results have been excellent.  It will be a left-handed 111F that I take hunting this year.  I've had it for almost 20 years now.  I know that isn't that long for some of you guys but that's more than half my life.  It began as and is currently a .243 though I have a .308 barrel for it.

My "nice" rifle though is one that no one has mentioned and that is a Browning X-bolt.  It is available in just about every common cartridge (and also in some less common ones like .280 and 7 WSM), has a smooth feeding detachable magazine and a gorgeous and amazingly ergonomic walnut stock.  The trigger is excellent and adjustable.  The action is simple, sleek and solid.  The fit and finish is as good or better than any other production rifle I've handled.  It is also one of the lightest rifles I've handled.  I was genuinely surprised by how light it is.  I bought it earlier this year for right at $700.  The only reason that it's not going with me on my mulie hunt is that I simply don't have enough rounds through it to be intimately familiar with how it shoots like my Savage.  Thanks to the 7 WSM chambering and the light barrel profile I'm only comfortable shooting it about 4 rounds per hour at the range.  I give the barrel ample chance to cool between shot to prolong its life.

That said, if we're honest with ourselves, you'd be hard pressed to go wrong with any of the modern rifles from the major manufacturers if your goal is put meet in the freezer.  Spending more money just gets you a prettier rifle these days as far as production rifles go.  The premium custom jobs might shoot slightly better but for 99% of HUNTERS that extra precision isn't needed.

[Swampman]

I hope to never own a Savage or a Browning but who knows what will happen before we leave this world.

[helotaxi]

Those of us that love our Savages hope that you never own one as well.  We don't want you as an advocate.