Just Plain Ignorant!

[Spirithawk]

I was just reading the new hunting regulations for 2012 and ran accross something I think is about as ignorant as things can get. Muzzleloader Season is now Alternate Weapons Season which is all and good. You can now use archery methods during it. Again, fine and good. However, archers are not required to wear Hunter Orange! That means that those of us carrying firearms, rifles and handguns, and wearing Hunter Orange, must now worry about archers hidden in full cammo head to  toe! Any responsible hunter makes sure of his target and what is in the vicinity of said target, but good luck doing that when you have guys dressed in a manor that the sole purpose is to not be seen! Sorry, but to me that's sheer stupidity on the Conservation Departments part! I know Hunter Orange is not required Turkey Season, and we all dress in cammo, but then you are using short range shotguns, not rifles and handguns, yet still folks get shot! I see this as many a tradegy waiting to happen! Guys am I wrong here? What's your opinions?

[mechanic]

Sometimes I think the folks that make the rules have no knowledge whatsoever about the sport of hunting or shooting.  Yours is not the only state with dumb rules....
 
In the southern zone of Ga. one may hunt deer over bait.  In the northern zone one may not, but he can hunt hogs over bait.  Now how is the agent to know, unless you are field dressing a deer near a feed station?
 
Ben

[Spirithawk]

 I just got off the phone with a high ranking Conservation Agent who 100% agreed with me and said it was a slip up on their part. He said whoever made the exemption for archers was probably thinking in terms of old style muzzleloaders which mostly had fairly limited ranges and not in terms of modern ones with far greater ranges. Not to mention centerfire handguns being used. (  I agree with my son. Many of those making the regulations probably never hunted themselve's and don't have a clue! ) The agent told me he would call the office where the regulations are made and inform them they made a serious goof and he thanked me for bringing it to their attention. Too late for them to change the regulation this season but I told them it might not be a bad idea to post a notice in the Missouri Conservationist magazine they issue that, while not yet required, it would certainly be advisable if archers did wear Hunter Orange Who knows, I may have just saved a few lives. I think I deserve a pudding cup and am about to raid the fridge!
 
Mechanic, I know what ya mean. Here it is illegal to hunt over bait such as grain blocks or corn, yet perfectly legal to not only hunt over crops but to plant food plots for the sole reason of bringing in deer to your stand! Go figure! lol The regs were that even if you didn't know the bait was there, such as hunting public land, they could still charge you! At least this year they changed it to saying they'd charge you if it is reasonable that you knew the bait was there.

[briarpatch]

A hunter should be responsible enough to realise what a danger this could be and wear hunter orange anyway. If you dont look out for yourself no one else will. 

[Spirithawk]

A hunter should be responsible enough to realise what a danger this could be and wear hunter orange anyway. If you dont look out for yourself no one else will.

I agree but it never fails to surprise me how dumb some people are.

[BBF]

An Archer wearing Orange!!
 
How many got them?
 
Say it isn't so !
 
    Sacrilege,   Geez !!

[Spirithawk]

An Archer wearing Orange!!
 
How many got them?
 
Say it isn't so !
 
    Sacrilege,   Geez !!

I archery hunt too and I'll tell ya straight up, I'd much rather wear some orange than catch a .50 the hard way! Unless you have Kevlar cammo I'd advise it!
 

[BBF]

Roger that !
 
I've always wondered why a deer can't see a gun hunter wearing blazing something but an Archer needs to be in full camo when on a treestand to remain undetected.   Strange !!!
 
If I had the choice in my Province I would wear full camo and rely on staying undetected from anything on two legs as well.

[Spirithawk]

Same here. My son and I rifle hunt, muzzleloader hunt and hunt with handguns as well as archery hunting. Many times I've had deer close enough to reach out and touch while wearing hunter orange. I've read that the only color that actualy hurts you is blue. That stands out as a shade they don't normaly recognise.

[fastchicken]

Archers never were required to wear orange during the muzzle loader season so you always had to watch out for us, it's not unique to the new Alternate Weapons.

[Spirithawk]

I guess there are some of us that don't  need to be told to be safe and some that do. If you can spot a guy in full cammo at over 50 yards, and muzzleloaders can easily reach out to 200 yards or better, then you have way better eyes than I do. In fact, better than anyone I've ever met! My son and I often sit at oposite ends of a food plot while bow hunting. At 100 yards, even though we know exactly where each other is sitting, it's near impossible to actualy see each other as humans with the naked eye. If you feel safe with guys slinging lead all around you under those circumstances you need to rethink safe. My son and I just simply stayed out of the woods with our bows and stuck with firearms during Muzzleloader Season. Seemed a wise thing to do.

[fastchicken]

I was just reading the new hunting regulations for 2012 and ran accross something I think is about as ignorant as things can get. .......However, archers are not required to wear Hunter Orange!....What's your opinions?

    I guess there are some of us who have read the regulations year after year and already knew archers didn't have to wear orange during ML season so it was not a big ignorant surprise to see that archers during the new AW season aren't required to wear orange. Does it make sense? No, but not surprising. It always seemed to me they had that backwards, if anyone was required to wear orange during ML season, it should be the archers. It's a no brainer that a ML hunter has a better chance at mistaking an archer at 100+ yards for a deer than an archer mistaking someone at 30.

If you feel safe with guys slinging lead all around you under those circumstances you need to rethink safe. My son and I just simply stayed out of the woods with our bows and stuck with firearms during Muzzleloader Season. Seemed a wise thing to do.

  Fortunately for me those aren't my hunting circumstances but I guess if hunted where you do I'd put my pumpkin suit on

[twoshooter]

I have relatives that are archers and this has always PO'd me.........since I DO NOT hunt with a bow, during archery season I STAY OUT OF THE WOODS, it is their season. They get from September 15 to November gun season , 2 MONTHS head start. Then WE get about 2 weeks. Then muzzleloaders got about 2 weeks. Then archers got ANOTHER month. Why are they allowed to mess with our season ? If you want to hunt during firearms season GET A GUN. Or stay home and sharpen your broadheads. This is STRICTLY about economics, about fees, tags, and sales tax revenue.

I also think the MCD screwed up in the handgun dept and should have based it on the performance levels of the weapon. They should have made it a "primitive weapon" season like Indiana or some of the southern states where you could use  single shot rifles chambered for cartridges originally designed for black powder, for use in a handgun, or cartridges that have performance that fall within those parameters. It is stupid that someone cannot use a 38/55 rifle but can use a 308 handgun. The Indiana case length rule may strike some as strange but in effect is really pretty smart. There you can use any single shot weapon chambered for a case 1.625 in length. If the MDC had limited the performance levels by say, limiting muzzle velocity to under 1800 fps, they would have been much better off.

[Spirithawk]

I was just reading the new hunting regulations for 2012 and ran accross something I think is about as ignorant as things can get. .......However, archers are not required to wear Hunter Orange!....What's your opinions?

    I guess there are some of us who have read the regulations year after year and already knew archers didn't have to wear orange during ML season so it was not a big ignorant surprise to see that archers during the new AW season aren't required to wear orange. Does it make sense? No, but not surprising. It always seemed to me they had that backwards, if anyone was required to wear orange during ML season, it should be the archers. It's a no brainer that a ML hunter has a better chance at mistaking an archer at 100+ yards for a deer than an archer mistaking someone at 30.

If you feel safe with guys slinging lead all around you under those circumstances you need to rethink safe. My son and I just simply stayed out of the woods with our bows and stuck with firearms during Muzzleloader Season. Seemed a wise thing to do.

  Fortunately for me those aren't my hunting circumstances but I guess if hunted where you do I'd put my pumpkin suit on

I guess my mistake was thinking people had enough brains to wear orange during any firearms season. I had thought the Hunter Orange reg applied to anyone hitting the woods during firearms season. Common sense says it should! Heck, even when not actualy hunting, if we walked into the woods firearm season we always put orange on. I don't care if it was even just going for a walk!

[keith44]

I guess my mistake was thinking people had enough brains to wear orange during any firearms season. I had thought the Hunter Orange reg applied to anyone hitting the woods during firearms season. Common sense says it should! Heck, even when not actualy hunting, if we walked into the woods firearm season we always put orange on. I don't care if it was even just going for a walk!

Sadly, no. Common sense is very uncommon these days.


I am used to KY's hunter orange regulations.  Since small game season runs concurrently with modern gun season, even rabbit hunters have to wear orange.


From the 2012-2013 regulations (this has part remained unchanged since the mid-80's)



Hunter orange required!
Kentucky’s Hunter Orange Clothing
Law requires ALL HUNTERS
and persons accompanying them,
hunting for any species during the
modern gun, muzzleloading, and
youth firearm deer seasons, or a
firearm elk or bear season, to wear
solid, unbroken hunter orange color
visible from all sides on the head,
back and chest.


If anyone wants to compare


http://fw.ky.gov/pdf/deerguide1213deer.pdf

[BBF]

I'm waiting for clearance lights to become mandatory.

[Spirithawk]

As I said, if ya feel safe running around in the woods wearing full cammo during firearms season you seriously need to rethink what is safe. Hunter Orange is required for a reason. Carrying a bow don't make you bullet proof! If for some crazy reason you believe it does you might want to make sure your will is up to date before hitting the woods!

[fastchicken]

I have relatives that are archers and this has always PO'd me.........since I DO NOT hunt with a bow, during archery season I STAY OUT OF THE WOODS, it is their season. They get from September 15 to November gun season , 2 MONTHS head start. Then WE get about 2 weeks. Then muzzleloaders got about 2 weeks. Then archers got ANOTHER month. Why are they allowed to mess with our season ? If you want to hunt during firearms season GET A GUN. Or stay home and sharpen your broadheads. This is STRICTLY about economics, about fees, tags, and sales tax revenue.

 It's not OUR fault YOU don't bowhunt, nobody's stopping you from taking advantage of all the seasons MDC has to offer, and since I do hunt all portions of the season [gun, muzzle loader, anterless, etc] I guess that does make them all MY season too.
 I got into bowhunting because I wanted more time to deer hunt, so when archery season in closed for the November  gun season, I do grab my gun [as you suggested] and hunt MY gun season, or is it YOUR season?. All of the various deer seasons are everyone's, you alone chose to make gun season your only one. I just have to laugh every time I hear a gun hunter crying about bowhunters having more time, getting all the deer, messing "Their" season up, and all the other sorry excuses for them not taking up a bow. Maybe bowhunting's too much of a challenge for them.
  I get to deer hunt every day from yesterday till Jan 15, been out this morning and going back out this afternoon, could be you gun hunters are just jealous.

[fastchicken]

As I said, if ya feel safe running around in the woods wearing full cammo during firearms season you seriously need to rethink what is safe. Hunter Orange is required for a reason. Carrying a bow don't make you bullet proof! If for some crazy reason you believe it does you might want to make sure your will is up to date before hitting the woods!

You guys must have a different style of hunting where you are, but I don't run through the woods, never see any deer that way .  Where I hunt, I do feel safe bowhunting during the ML season without orange, and I don't need to rethink anything. If for some crazy reason you feel you can deem people unsafe, because you apparently know everything about everyone's hunting situation, than maybe you should rethink your blanket statements about being unsafe just because they don't do what you feel they should be doing.
   Makes about as much sense as me saying if you feel safe driving a car without wearing a helmet you're stupid. I bet you do feel pretty safe not wearing a helmet in a car, but I've personally seen heads caved in from car wrecks. Think about this, do you have better odds of getting in a car wreck or getting shot while hunting? Start wearing your helmet .

[keith44]

Law says:


[size=1.357em]Firearms safety[/size]Firearms safety is the first responsibility of every hunter. All hunters must be familiar with and follow the rules of safe firearms handling.[size=1.357em][/color]Hunter-orange requirements[/size]The following people are required to wear a cap or hat and also a shirt, vest or coat of hunter orange so that the color is plainly visible from all sides. Camouflage orange does not satisfy this requirement.[/color]Firearms deer hunters during all portions of the firearms deer season

• [/color]Adults accompanying youths hunting deer on a firearms deer hunting permit

• [/color]Archery hunters during the youth portions statewide and during the urban zones and antlerless portions in open areas

• [/color]All hunters (except migratory bird hunters) during the urban zones, youth, November and antlerless portions in open areas.

• [size=1.357em][/color][/size]Note: Fall firearms turkey hunters must wear hunter orange in some areas Oct. 5–8 (see Firearms Deer Hunting).[/color]The following firearms deer hunters are exempt from the hunter-orange requirement:Hunters using archery methods within municipal boundaries where discharge of firearms is prohibited

• [/color]Archery permittees hunting during the alternative methods portion of the firearms deer season[/size]

• [/color]Hunters on federal or state public hunting areas where deer hunting is by archery methods only. Hunter orange, however, is recommended for archery hunters who are hunting close to areas open to firearms methods.[/size]

• [/color]Note: Safety conscious hunters display hunter-orange even when it isn’t required. Here’s some examples:When walking to and from a turkey hunt, especially when carrying harvested game[/size]

• [/color]When hunting inside a camouflage blind[/size]

• [/color]When hunting close to areas where firearms hunting is allowed[/size]

• [/color]Beware: When using a camouflage blind, other hunters cannot see you even if you are legally wearing hunter orange. To be safe, tie hunter orange on each side of the blind so it can be seen from all sides.[/size]
• [/color]
• [/size][/color]
• [/size][/color]Safe thinkers would realize that Orange is just a good idea anytime firearm hunters are in the woods in significant numbers.  Too many simply shoot at noise or movement.  Had a guy at work bragging about shooting at a deer running past his stand before he could see through the scope, 8 shots with a .308, and he couldn't tell if he hit anything  .  As long as these types still live and breathe be as safe as you can

[BBF]

With a guy like that  nobody   is safe unless in a bunker or far away.

[Spirithawk]

Sorry, never meant it to be a blanket statement. just posted when in a hurry. My bad. That being said, if you are hunting private land, are certain who else is hunting it, are hunting out of a tree stand ( Which still isn't garaunteed safe as in hilly country shots can be fired from the same hight or even higher than you) or everyone knows exactly where you are every single second of your hunt .....then you MIGHT be safe. Please don't try to claim you certainly are because we all know crap can and does happen. But, if you are hunting public land, as a whole lot of folks do, and if you're hunting from the ground as many bow hunters, including myself do, then yes you are in danger by not being visable to those shooting firearms. That's common sense and personal opinion has absolutely nothing to do with it.
 
 Running around the woods is a loose term not to be taken litteraly and you darn well know it. Nice way to make a point by using a meaningless cheap shot huh?Yes, you sneak through the woods to see deer and to do that you certainly ain't up in a stand. Even were you you still have to walk to and from it unless you can fly.
 

 How many of us have heard of guys getting shot because some idiot shot at a dark object and or movement? We all have! That's why there is a Hunter's Orange requirement in the first place. Now tell me, how many have heard someone say, " I thought you was a deer till I saw the orange!" I know I sure have and way too many times. If you hunt on public land during firearms season, and think wearing cammo and carrying a bow makes ya bullet proof, by all means good luck with that. If you're wrong I hope they say nice things about you at your funeral but wanna bet there will be at least one person in the crowd that says, " The dipstick should have been wearing orange!". Fast, you seem to imply that because you feel safe, you think your safe, then you must be safe. Lots of dead or crippled people that thought that. Either you hunt in a very secluded area or you think all hunters hunt as safe as you feel. Not sure I'd bank on that logic.