3.8% sales tax on YOUR house....starting jan 1 2013...3 months from now

[45-70.gov]

http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home


http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home


Beginning January 1, 2013, ObamaCare imposes a 3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income of “high-income” taxpayers which could apply to proceeds from the sale of single family homes, townhouses, co-ops, condominiums, and even rental income, depending on your individual circumstances and any capital gains tax exclusions. Importantly, the “high income” thresholds are not indexed for inflation so will reach increasing numbers of middle-class taxpayers over time.
this will devastate my business!

[lgm270]

The tip of the ice berg.  A tax lawyer friend told me he was spending hours to get up to speed on the Health Care Act and its tax consequences.  He said it was a "nightmare."

 This  man  is  a tax lawyer of many years' experience. 

The question of whether this country can survive this law and Obama is very much in doubt.  I thought the Cold War was a nightmare as  a kid.  I am more worried now about our continued existence.

[streak]

This is just a manifestation of what happens when you have illiterate " sheeples", inexperienced college students taught by liberal professors, and those on welfare who are there just for a free ride , and those who are so entrenched in liberalism voting!!

[yellowtail3]

The tip of the ice berg.  A tax lawyer friend told me he was spending hours to get up to speed on the Health Care Act and its tax consequences.  He said it was a "nightmare."

 This  man  is  a tax lawyer of many years' experience. 

the current system is a nightmare, which is why your tax lawyer friend makes a good living (and he'd like it to remain as convoluted as possible - ask him if you catch him in an honest moment)

[twoshooter]

I feel for you guys, I really do.... but I have a hard time reaching you. I have worked for the state for almost 30 years now. I have paid Soc Sec tax on every dime I ever made. I have paid income tax on my "taxable income" which averages out at about 6-7%. I have spent about 95% of that income and so paid from 4-8% sales tax on that. I also own my home(well, me and the bank- for a short while) and so pay real estate tax- which incidentally is about 5% of my net income. I also pay personal property tax, and various fees and licenses. I earned a degree, I paid my school loan off. My salary has never exceeded 40K a year, and will not before I retire at the end of next year.

You said "high income" people with "unearned income" will or may have to pay a 3.8% tax on that?? That just breaks my heart. Pardon while I get some tissue.......honk,,,,,honk...now, that's better. Could you explain to me again how it is that someone who has enough money to live off their money should not pay tax on that income??     

[magooch]

I don't believe anyone said that higher income folks should not pay tax on that income.  And if you believe they don't pay their fair share and then some, you are misinformed.  This makes you sound envious and vindictive.  You don't advocate punishing success--do you?
 
 

[45-70.gov]

twoshooter
how much will you pay when you sell this house??
or if kids inherit it....will that ''wealth '' transfer get taxed too?


my busuness pays approx $11K in property taxes
soon it looks like i will  pay another $3K


weather  i make a profit or not....obomacare gets  3.8%  of the gross income not net income
weather or not i make a profit....i now pay   approx  $11k


earned income  is tax  on you NET INCOME  not your GROSS INCOME
with  these risk  factors  i think many business  owners will just join the un-employment lines

[lgm270]

I feel for you guys, I really do.... but I have a hard time reaching you. I have worked for the state for almost 30 years now. I have paid Soc Sec tax on every dime I ever made. I have paid income tax on my "taxable income" which averages out at about 6-7%. I have spent about 95% of that income and so paid from 4-8% sales tax on that. I also own my home(well, me and the bank- for a short while) and so pay real estate tax- which incidentally is about 5% of my net income. I also pay personal property tax, and various fees and licenses. I earned a degree, I paid my school loan off. My salary has never exceeded 40K a year, and will not before I retire at the end of next year.

You said "high income" people with "unearned income" will or may have to pay a 3.8% tax on that?? That just breaks my heart. Pardon while I get some tissue.......honk,,,,,honk...now, that's better. Could you explain to me again how it is that someone who has enough money to live off their money should not pay tax on that income??   

Hatred of people who have more than you is among the most destructive forms of bigotry in history.

[twoshooter]

I have heard that form ever car salesman, insurance salesman, con-artist etc that I ever talked to, and friend, that just dont float. I paid all the afore mentioned taxes on every dime that I paid for my house also, yet I pay that property tax to keep my house. I am not making any money with my house, I just live there. Those car salesmen that drive "demonstrator" models and write it off as advertisement, and go to "conventions" conveniently close to their favorite vacation spot and write it off on their business, etc etc. You can make some bad decisions and have a "zero profit "year which means that you just lived and broke even, because everything is factored in. I "just live" period. If you lose some property, you can insure it, refinance , etc etc when you own wealth, when you work for wages, you sell your time. You could sue to reclaim losses of property. How do you sue to reclaim your life? You can't replace ONE MINUTE of time that is gone. There are plenty of people around that fit the term "bigot", and they all have a list of things as long as your arm they think justifies it, and everyone else does is always "worse" than what they do. Well, if you have a nice car, a nice house, and maybe a business, that is great. When times were good you enjoyed the system that made it possible. Now it is not so good. That comes with the territory too, same system. Things aren't just peachy for me either, but I am not whining.It is what it is. So don't pee down my leg and tell me it is raining. If you think that is "class warfare" that is just too bad. I ain't afraid to say it, that is the Emperor- and his tush is showing, the  dude is naked. You need a new schtick, this dog won't hunt.

[45-70.gov]

not trying to argue or start something
but  why didn't you invest some of that HARD earned money??


i used to question why the working  man was hit the hardest
 i am an uneducated carpenter
started  investinding in realestate in my late 20s
quit working 4 years ago at 53


this  ''bad'' economy has opened up more oppertunity
instead of whining  i am always looking

[twoshooter]

That is great for you, I am happy. This is not the time nor place nor room enough for all of it, so I will give you a "nutshell" version. Graduated HS on friday, went to work monday. Got a car, paid for it, went to school again- Arab oil embargo, jobs went phut, had to pay for things and live, back to square one. Year later found another job- factory, about 50% more than minimum wage to start. Beggars cant be choosers. Three years later I had a car, a motorcycle, and a bank account. I met a woman that really connected with me (we are still connected 36 years later) and we got married. She had a child and elderly parents, and a few debts, but nothing big. We bought a place. Remember Jimmie Carter ? Interest went from 7.8% to 21% in just over a year. The banks could "adjust" their income, I could not. Ever try to sell property that has an infinitely adjustable loan? SO, back to square 1. Then there was my employer, one of those wonderful "small business" types that took our money for insurance, and when our first child was born we found out that we had been lied to about coverage, and I wound up paying 75% of the bill , not the 20%. Sue them? For what, and with what? They sold the company the next year, and when they left they returned my "retirement fund" minus their contributions to the match and 100% of any interest or profit. Don't you just love small business men? Good thing I did not have an address. SO, now in debt, no property, no job. Wife, two kids, blind father in law. Went back to school. Further in debt. When I got out I took the first job I found, with the state, guard in a medium security prison, 1200$ a month. GOOD INSURANCE. They paid ALL retirement. Vacation. Sick leave. The same year the stock market crashed.
         All the while guys guys "recovered and invested" I plugged along, through the deaths of my parents and inlaws, my wife being injured, once again, one of those wonderful "small business" employers without insurance, and when she could not go back to work after surgery of COURSE they kept on paying her. They now own a marvelous fancy restaurant and antique boutique by the way, drive Mercedes, and winter in the Bahamas. That was followed by breast cancer, then a hip replacement after a car wreck. Some states don't REQUIRE auto liability insurance. Ever try to sue someone out of state on their home turf? WELL, then came the bankruptcy. Square ONE.
       Now, I am a year away from retirement. I have Social Security, and I have a state pension that will kick in. After 43 years of work and paying out. And all I hear is how guys like me are breaking the country. Meanwhile, all those years those who are crying now have been driving their Lincoln, going on vacation, nice house. I have just kept my head down and trudged forward. I will be damned if I will now put up with their whining. Welcome to MY side of the tracks. The least you can do is stand up and take it like a man. All those bankers who adjusted rates, those business men who passed on their costs, those salesmen who sold crap then disappeared into the fog when their products went south, they want to tell ME how sad it is. I think you can guess where they can stick it. You can call it whatever you want. I did not go crying to them then. Don't come crying to me now. Just bend over and smile. After it is over, come talk to me , we will have something in common then. Was it as good for you ??

[lgm270]

I have heard that form ever car salesman, insurance salesman, con-artist etc that I ever talked to, and friend, that just dont float. I paid all the afore mentioned taxes on every dime that I paid for my house also, yet I pay that property tax to keep my house. I am not making any money with my house, I just live there. Those car salesmen that drive "demonstrator" models and write it off as advertisement, and go to "conventions" conveniently close to their favorite vacation spot and write it off on their business, etc etc. You can make some bad decisions and have a "zero profit "year which means that you just lived and broke even, because everything is factored in. I "just live" period. If you lose some property, you can insure it, refinance , etc etc when you own wealth, when you work for wages, you sell your time. You could sue to reclaim losses of property. How do you sue to reclaim your life? You can't replace ONE MINUTE of time that is gone. There are plenty of people around that fit the term "bigot", and they all have a list of things as long as your arm they think justifies it, and everyone else does is always "worse" than what they do. Well, if you have a nice car, a nice house, and maybe a business, that is great. When times were good you enjoyed the system that made it possible. Now it is not so good. That comes with the territory too, same system. Things aren't just peachy for me either, but I am not whining.It is what it is. So don't pee down my leg and tell me it is raining. If you think that is "class warfare" that is just too bad. I ain't afraid to say it, that is the Emperor- and his tush is showing, the  dude is naked. You need a new schtick, this dog won't hunt.

Getting some counseling  would be more helpful than bashing people more fortunate  than you.      You  apparently have suffered a lot of misfortune, but how are you better off if you have to fork over 3.8%  of the sale price of your house?    This  latest  tax is simply another act of theft of peoples' assets by a parasitic government.   How does that help you? 


 

[twoshooter]

Not bashing, just stating fact. When you are on the ladder and the guy above you is standing on your fingers, going "WHAT?". You may be used to browbeating people who just fold and say, "Oh no, I don't mean to offend". Anyone is welcome to get as offended as possible. You would lead people to believe that all of those "small business" people are just saints, that they all just slaved away and worked their fingers to the bone for years, no decades, they risked all , lived in impoverished conditions for years, just to eke a meager living from a harsh and hostile land !!
Fertilizer.
This may be a giant lovefest and mutual admiration society, and I may be the skunk at the picnic, but the smell here is from the feces fajita that is being served up. If you want to totally remove the government, fine. I will vote for that. No taxes. No safety net. No social security. No 911 to call. Just who do you think benefits more from all those rules and regulations? Me? Or that small businessman ?? Who uses the loans, the infrastructure, the utilities, the police and fire the most ? There are all kinds of things that the government provides. I don't use most of them. Many I am adamantly opposed to. I pay taxes that pay for them. It is the price of being "civilized". Apparently, you feel similarly. About different things perhaps. BUT, you are going to help pay for them. Just like I do. You want to be "civilized" also. You would just like to be able to delete MY preferred and perceived benefits, while enhancing your own. There is nothing surprising about that, nor do I expect otherwise really. But you also have the misguided idea that you can just make a rude gesture at me and I will run screaming from the field , Seek counseling huh ?? I love that! The things you want, like, promote, in some fashion benefit you, and you try to somehow rationalize that it is moral, lofty, righteous, just _________(fill in the blank.) It is NOT. It is just to your benefit. I too promote things that I perceive as beneficial to ME. I however make no claim that they need to be Godly, righteous, moral,  or just. They just need to meet my needs. The great thing about "democracy" is that our vote is equal. Don't ya just love that ! How is that working out for you?     

[gypsyman]

twoshooter, just stating facts! Now the govt. wants 3.8% sales tax on a sale of a house. Plus property tax's. Don't forget, water bills,electric,gas. My property tax is over $4,000 a year. I pay state sales tax from my business, over $3,200 a year. My wife pays over $8,000 in state and fed. tax's from her job. And, most govt jobs can be done by private business for about half of what the govt. employee's make. Wait a minute while I get a hankee and blow my nose, boohoo, when the overpaid govt worker finds out the gravytrain is coming to an end. About time. I can remember back in the early 60's, my aunt worked for the county, and just about every Friday, the secretary's would have a coffee and cinammon roll bake for a party. Fine way to spend your Fridays. At the tax payers expense. The only thing this 3.8% sales tax is, an extra teat for govt. to suck on. Time to end it. gypsyman

[George Foster]

This puts it in a little better perspective of what it really is.
 
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

[twoshooter]

Thanks George. First reasonable thing said here in some time. Both sides in this debate want to hyperventilate and put out as much venom and hyperbole as possible on these issues, lots of heat but little light. Life is not fair, never was- nor will be. They reportedly asked Willie Sutton why he robbed banks, and he said"thats where the money is". If you are going to collect taxes you have to collect it from those that have something to collect. I believe that in the bible it said " despise not the poor because they ARE poor". That is because being poor (expletive meaning to create large vacuum deleted). If you already are in that state, you do not need a bunch of those more fortunate sitting around pointing it out, you know it. Despite popular opinion and moralizing, most wealth is not simply due to hard work and talent, nor is poverty mostly due to laziness and stupidity. There are a lot of factors involved. Many of those that have wealth like to imagine that it all came simply because of their outstanding virtue, that it is proof that they are somehow better than others. It is not, "time and chance" happens in all things. I have a son in that tax bracket. He did and does work very hard, he is talented, dedicated, and smart. I am proud of him. I have a brother who is 75 that worked his entire life just as hard, just as moral, as diligent, and he was not stupid. The only thing he owns is a pickup truck and really good boots. My son pays more quarterly estimated income tax than my annual gross income. When we go somewhere to lunch he picks up the tab. He should. He is proud of the fact that he can. He is glad he is not me. An I also am glad for him. If I go out with my brother, I pick up the check. I am glad I am not him.
If you have it, be happy. Pick up the check according to your means, and don't be mean about it. There but for the grace of God go you. But don't whine, it is unbecoming.

[tobster]

Not all small business owners are liars and cheats. Many actually DID risk everything they had and worked their fingers to the bone  to get a business started. Many work their fingers to the bone to KEEP a business successful. Unsuccessful small businesses often fail and leave others holding the bag,much like people with a steady income who have had a run of bad luck or have made bad decisions and end up fileling personal bankruptcy. In both cases someone doesn't get paid the money they were owed. Life's a gamble. Why someone would feel better about having the "lucky" people pay more to a government that has  a propensity to waste it is beyond me.

[wganz]

I also pay personal property tax, and various fees and licenses. I earned a degree, I paid my school loan off. My salary has never exceeded 40K a year, and will not before I retire at the end of next year.

Divide and conquer. It is working.

The point is that the 'new' rich millionaire level is now $40,000.01/year.

And additional taxes on home sales will totally tank the construction & home sales markets. And the depression will just get deeper requiring more people to look to the mocha messiah for economic salvation. Then we need more 'stimulus' poured into construction jobs which is yet another union subsidy.


I'm still aghast that there was more money sent to the UAW through GMC than Uncle Sam spent on foreign aide while 0bama was POTUS.

[45-70.gov]

Divide and conquer. It is working.


yes  it is.....sorry i fell for it


two shooter  you have one advantage  i never had
a good woman....my divorce cost me around $100K
i  am  glad for  you....i am paying for  my own poor choice


as for insurance......i had 3 kids...OUT OF POCKET
in the carter years....i bought a  CD paying 12%!!!!


i almost just sent a PM
the divide an conquer  trick  we have fallen for

[garbhead]

All "sales taxes" are paid by the buyer, not the seller

[jimster]

Divide and conquer. It is working.

Yes it is.  We all need to stop looking at each other and worrying about someone elses money, and start worrying about what this bloated government is doing with "my money".  They take in 2.XX trillion a year in taxes and almost half the people pay ZERO taxes, and 33 percent actually RECIEVE money from this tax plan that pay nothing.  This is how they divide us, and build one helluva voting block.
For those of us who pay taxes, we pay too much, they spend it on corruption and elections and send the rest to other countries.  If we could reign that in those of us who pay would not have to pay nearly as much, and we really should stop transferring our tax money to this "earned income credit" deal...just the fact they don't pay anything at all is good enough, we don't have to PAY them too.
When they get us Americans bickering amoung ourselves on taxes, they did divide and conquer us for sure.  We need to take a step back and look at the real enemy here. I can't survive without wealthy people who worked hard to get there, I (censored word) work for them.  Let's get off their backs, they are paying most all the tax bills as it is, and now are stuck with buying our health care as well.
 

[twoshooter]

OK. Let me put it in these terms. Growing up on a small farm I learned about efficiency. You put 10 steers in a feed lot. Steers drop quite a bit of feed, and they are not extremely efficient on feed conversion , so you put 3 hogs in with them. The hogs ate everything the steers dropped, they even ate a lot of manure with partially digested feed. You did not " feed" the hogs directly. Then, you threw 10 chickens in. They are very feed efficient, they picked through the hog droppings and even picked parasites off the animals. Sort of the model for the supposed "trickle down" theory.
    We did not eat much beef, it brought too much money. It paid the bills, for gas and fertilizer and electric and seed. We ate the ham and eggs, the by products. That was the way the small guys survived.
     Now suppose someone comes up with a great idea to confine the steers, to put a vacuum and return system in the feed trough. Now there is NO waste, you can now have 11 steers. But there is nothing left for the hogs, nor the chickens. Nor the people who lived off them. The beef eaters did fine. Price of beef fell minutely, but the people who no longer had the hogs and chickens can't afford enough beef to replace the loss. The profit from the extra steer goes for the new feed system. Who gains?
      Trickle down only works as long as there is enough trickling. You talk about divide and conquer, no one is "dividing"anyone, some people are just too cheap to feed the dogs, and then when they walk into the pound with their steak sandwich they wonder why the dogs bark. Many here refer to "wolves and sheeple". Wolves are not that dangerous, they are relatively few and avoid man in general. Dogs are dangerous. There are millions of dogs, and when you dump them out they are not afraid of people. You need to factor in your "opportunity costs". Feed the dogs. 

[Cabin4]

Talk about raping the American worker and those who use the equity in their home to help retire on. obama is a criminal. This is no differant that reducing SS payments or raping Medicare. Same thing.

[twoshooter]

Whoa,Whoa there. "Raping", excuse me. I Know some ladies that had the misfortune to experience that activity, and comparing that to paying $2,000 extra tax on selling a half million dollar home is like me comparing a pimple on my butt with removing your testicles with a weed eater. You should read what George posted, that was the only reasoned , factual treatment of this subject. You guys are just foaming at the mouth, and this is kind of like spraying a rabid possum with a hose. He just falls all over himself trying to figure out what to bite next. I admit, it is fun.

I dont who is more fun, dealing with "Liberals" who are convinced that you can't "own" a bicycle, you did not earn it, and you have to let everybody ride.......

Or with conservatives who rightly say it is their bike, but also insist they also own the street and if you can't afford a bike, you have to stay off the sidewalk.

[Cabin4]

Curious how this all fits into that kinda view?
 
The Obama Record:
46 million on food stamps
23 million out of work
Unemployment rate above 8% for 41  straight months
$1.2 trillion dollar annual budget deficit
$15+ trillion dollar national debt
Record high home forclosures
Record level home devaluation
Highest sustained fuel prices in history
Record high offshoring of US jobs
Record level division between the rich,working class and the poor.
Record rising health care costs and disruption to our health care policies
Continued corp bailouts and crony capitolisam

[billy_56081]

WOW, the envy and jealousy of that class warfare parasitic bunch. Taxation is nothing but legalized theft.

[twoshooter]

 This is a problem. It was not "caused" by Obama, nor Bush, nor Clinton, it has developed over decades. It is like Jenga, that game where you keep pulling out stick out until the pile falls. Every stick removed weakens the structure but the guy who removes the one that finally triggers the fall is blamed for the whole thing. Most people are not that smart, not up on financial matters, and they can't be. Real world people worry about small but immediate matters. I know a lot of those people, for whom a financial disaster would be having to replace a refrigerator, or some tires, not because their portfolio value dropped 10% overnight.
     As Americans, we have been told for well....ever I guess, that more is better, that we can have it all, which morphed into we SHOULD have it all, which then became the measure of all of us, that somehow your value as a person hinged on that fact. It became proof somehow of your worthiness, your absolute moral value as a human being. An awful lot of people either consciously or unconsciously bought into that. If you want to identify a "dividing" force, that belief is a major contributor.
     The flip side is also untrue, not all those poor are righteous, nor victims, nor lacking in responsibility for their situation.
      When you are in a boat that is sinking it is not the time to argue about who forgot to put in the drain plug, nor where the boat was going in the first place, nor who to throw out, it is time to bail, and those with the biggest buckets and most able are going to have to do most of the work. Once the plug is in and the boat is stable, then you can have those arguments. That is part of the problem, when there is a thunder storm and the roof leaks, you dont go out and get on the roof, but when the sun comes out there is no leak and so everybody wants to go to the beach, not get on the roof and fix it.
     You could take ALL of every rich persons money away in taxes and it would not solve the problem
      You could REMOVE ALL taxes on the rich and it would not solve the problem.

 I have to leave for work but I have a few counter questions.

      What is the best determinant of who is or is not a "good or valuable " person ?
       How much is enough ?
        Does it matter how or on what basis you achieve wealth, or just how much you have?
         Would you rather be good, or lucky?
          Do you believe there is a finite size to the "pie", or that it can just grow forever?


            How do we determine the correct answer when we do not have the SAME questions ?


Later, Dude.

[gypsyman]

I guess twoshooter, I can understand where you come from. You have been employed by the state for almost 30 years. All, and I do mean ALL, of your wages have been payed by taxpayers. Including the money you put into S.S., and, weather you like it or not, the people on welfare, get their money from the same place. The govt., which means it comes from taxpayers!! And, this is just another way the govt. is trying to expand. And, when they do expand, it cost's the taxpayer more than if a private company/contractor, were to do the job. No different than the 1% the govt. wants to add to any bank transaction. Move money from your savings to your checking, the govt. wants 1$ for every $100 you transfer. More money for the govt. teat,and more for your pension. If I was you, I'd want more people to pay more tax's too. Comforting to know the milk will never run dry. gypsyman

[ironglow]

I feel for you guys, I really do.... but I have a hard time reaching you. I have worked for the state for almost 30 years now. I have paid Soc Sec tax on every dime I ever made. I have paid income tax on my "taxable income" which averages out at about 6-7%. I have spent about 95% of that income and so paid from 4-8% sales tax on that. I also own my home(well, me and the bank- for a short while) and so pay real estate tax- which incidentally is about 5% of my net income. I also pay personal property tax, and various fees and licenses. I earned a degree, I paid my school loan off. My salary has never exceeded 40K a year, and will not before I retire at the end of next year.

  You said "high income" people with "unearned income" will or may have to pay a 3.8% tax on that?? That just breaks my heart. Pardon while I get some tissue.......honk,,,,,honk...now, that's better. Could you explain to me again how it is that someone who has enough money to live off their money should not pay tax on that income??   

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  First off, practically all of us have to pay those same bills, taxes and fees you are whining about.  I didn't see anything which said this tax on a house would only hit millionaires.  ..And quite honestly, it wouldn't be right if it did!  ENVY is an ugly sin!
  I guess not being money-hungry, I don't relate to your envy.
 
  BTW:  In case you haven't noticed, the greatest numbers of people with "unearned income" are the multi-generationa lwelfare
families.  Perhaps you should address them.

[ironglow]

WOW, the envy and jealousy of that class warfare parasitic bunch. Taxation is nothing but legalized theft.

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...And so many suckers are alwaysd ready to go to bat for the "thief in chief"..