3.8% sales tax on YOUR house....starting jan 1 2013...3 months from now

[Cabin4]

This is a problem. It was not "caused" by Obama, nor Bush, nor Clinton, it has developed over decades. It is like Jenga, that game where you keep pulling out stick out until the pile falls. Every stick removed weakens the structure but the guy who removes the one that finally triggers the fall is blamed for the whole thing. Most people are not that smart, not up on financial matters, and they can't be. Real world people worry about small but immediate matters. I know a lot of those people, for whom a financial disaster would be having to replace a refrigerator, or some tires, not because their portfolio value dropped 10% overnight.
     As Americans, we have been told for well....ever I guess, that more is better, that we can have it all, which morphed into we SHOULD have it all, which then became the measure of all of us, that somehow your value as a person hinged on that fact. It became proof somehow of your worthiness, your absolute moral value as a human being. An awful lot of people either consciously or unconsciously bought into that. If you want to identify a "dividing" force, that belief is a major contributor.
     The flip side is also untrue, not all those poor are righteous, nor victims, nor lacking in responsibility for their situation.
      When you are in a boat that is sinking it is not the time to argue about who forgot to put in the drain plug, nor where the boat was going in the first place, nor who to throw out, it is time to bail, and those with the biggest buckets and most able are going to have to do most of the work. Once the plug is in and the boat is stable, then you can have those arguments. That is part of the problem, when there is a thunder storm and the roof leaks, you dont go out and get on the roof, but when the sun comes out there is no leak and so everybody wants to go to the beach, not get on the roof and fix it.
     You could take ALL of every rich persons money away in taxes and it would not solve the problem
      You could REMOVE ALL taxes on the rich and it would not solve the problem.

 I have to leave for work but I have a few counter questions.

      What is the best determinant of who is or is not a "good or valuable " person ?
       How much is enough ?
        Does it matter how or on what basis you achieve wealth, or just how much you have?
         Would you rather be good, or lucky?
          Do you believe there is a finite size to the "pie", or that it can just grow forever?


            How do we determine the correct answer when we do not have the SAME questions ?


Later, Dude.

Clearly your points are off target. Presidents and the rest of the elected are here to prevent problems and solve those problems that arise. The only relevent question for this election cycle is: Has obama accomplished these two goals? The answer is no. Lets get a new one and see if they can.

[45-70.gov]

will carpenters and house builders benefit from this tax
how about realestate agents


only parasites wanting some one else to pay their way will benefit from this or ANY TAX


remember this
any one is free to help the poor
but many think  they  MUST USE FORCE OF GOVERNMENT  to make others  help them too
 that is not freedom


people can and will manage their own money better than some one elses money

[garbhead]

I guess twoshooter, I can understand where you come from. You have been employed by the state for almost 30 years. All, and I do mean ALL, of your wages have been payed by taxpayers. Including the money you put into S.S., and, weather you like it or not, the people on welfare, get their money from the same place. The govt., which means it comes from taxpayers!!

If Romney/Ryan happen to get elected, then the VP(Ryan) will be a heartbeat away from being President...Other than college jobs at Oscar Mayer and McDonald's, all of his income has come from taxpayer money as well...but I'm sure he learned enough driving the "weeny-mobile" to drive our economy...

[garbhead]

only parasites wanting some one else to pay their way will benefit from this or ANY TAX

So I guess anyone who has driven on a public street , highway, or interstate,  or has depended upon a fire department to help with his fire, or the police to try to make them safe, are to be classified as parasites?

[Cabin4]

Your correct, he will be a heart beat away. The problem we have today is the sitting president not only has no real work experience, he obviously has no respect for people who actually have to run a business. And since Ryan is not at the top of the ticket, you wont have to worry about that but do have to worry given the buffoon we have in their now.

[garbhead]

Your correct, he will be a heart beat away. The problem we have today is the sitting president not only has no real work experience, he obviously has no respect for people who actually have to run a business. And since Ryan is not at the top of the ticket, you wont have to worry about that but do have to worry given the buffoon we have in their now.

I agree but my point was, don't put down a member here for working 30 years for the state, when your own Vice-presidential candidate has only worked for the state, without griping about him too.
Truth is a lot of good people have worked their entire lives in the government. And a lot of bad ones as well.

[gypsyman]

Garbhead, let me do this in my best Ricky Ricardo voice, and let me 'splain this. When 45-70 wrote, pay their way, I believe that means getting something for nothing. When somebody ''pays your way'' it means no money out of your pocket. Nothing against Fireman,Policeman, or even civil servants.(Such as twoshooter) They at least work for the money they earn.(at least I hope they do!!) But, what you have to understand, the well that the govt. is going to, is drying up. Tax revenue's are down across the board. Property tax,sales tax,income tax, all down. So, a real life businessman, would downsize,cut the fat, and do what he had to to stay in business. The govt, which depends on this tax base to run, does just the opposite. Lets try and figure out ways to up the tax revenue, hire more people, and get fatter. Look real hard at your natural gas or electric bill, and see how many tax's there are. Couple bucks here, couple there. Doesn't sound like much, add it up with millions of home owners across the country. England has a 70% tax base. I don't know about you, but I sure don't want to work 8 1/2 to 9 months out of the year for the govt. Time has come for govt. workers to realize, their going to have to start paying for part of their health care and pensions out of their paycheck, just like the rest of us do. Gravy train is coming to an end. gypsyman

[twoshooter]

Guys, WEALTH may belong to individuals, but MONEY DOES belong to the government. They literally MAKE it. The Fed authorizes the treasury, who PRINTS the money. It is worthless in and of itself, but it is an abstract that allows trade. It seems like you guys think you exist in a vacuum. The government sets and maintains the rules that allow you to do business. They make contracts possible. They maintain the mechanisms that allow you to settle disputes, keep intellectual property safe, maintain boundaries and orders etc. So before you expend all of your hot air, you need a little introspection.
There is a quote about a man who asked  a lady if she would sleep with him for a million dollars, after awhile she replied yes. He then asked her if she would for $5 , and she was incensed, asking "what do you think I am??" He replied, "we have already determined WHAT you are, now we are discussing the price!" You guys would not want to get rid of the defense department. I will bet you would keep the patent office, and have copyright's enforced. I bet you would like deeds recorded, and easements enforced. SO, we have determined WHAT you really are, now it is about the price.
What you REALLY mean is that you want things that YOU like, value, support- to be promoted by the government, while what I may like,value, support, uh---- not so much.
 As for being "money hungry", if you are not-----then you should not mind if someone else take some, right?? Jealousy is if I want what you have. I don't. I OBJECT to your attitude. I have the same feeling I get when I go to a buffet and watch someone pile their plate up and then take one bite  out of things and then throw them out. People who want to have enough not to live in fear, to not be controlled by others, that is just fine. People who want to have things in order to control others, who want things not for value intrinsic to the thing in question, but in order to impose upon and disadvantage others, people for whom it is not enough to win- but that others must be made painfully aware that they have lost.........they are sick, they are evil. 
    I have spent my nearly 30 years watching over people whom could not for themselves, monitoring and inspecting nursing homes, group homes, mental health facilities. I made sure their checks went for their care, that they actually got their medicine- it was not put out on the street for sale. That they did not get bed sores , were fed properly, did not get beaten up or assaulted, were kept clean and dry. I did it for a fraction of the pay of the manager of the local  Quiktrip convenience store. I wonder just where you think that comes from, if not the government?  If you want to put them all to sleep, well..... most of them actually wouldn't be missed much and it would save a lot of money, their care is really expensive. Would you like to come help me lobby for that??  Save all those tax dollars.

[Cabin4]

I'll take Ryan over the theatre hungry jackass that's in the VP spot now, any day.... A heart beat away.......
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9UdVkfbPd4

[billy_56081]

Government employees should not be considered taxpayers. They only give back some of the taxes stolen from taxpayers and given to them.

[twoshooter]

SO.....if you sold someone a car......and they robbed a bank.......you don't get paid........and you don't get the car back ??

[gypsyman]

Twoshooter, money belongs to the person who EARNS it. Sounds like you work for a state agency that watchdogs nursing homes. Thats fine, somebody has to watch over those place's, to many horror stories. Point of the post. I don't care if the 3.8% is on just the capital gains, the whole price of the house, or the real estate commission. Their not entitled to any of it. A home owner pays property tax for how many years. Pays the insurance premiums, pays for all the fix up to keep the house viable to sell someday. The govt. doesn't send over any painters,plumbers,carpenters. Doesn't pay for carpeting, new bathrooms or kitchens. So when a homeowner decides to sell, and his investment of say $80,000 or ?, goes up to $150,000, he's suppose to give 3.8% of that to the govt. B***S***!!! Nobody from the govt showed up to even shovel his driveway. They give to much away to foreign govts., welfare case's, stupid studies for college professors.(who cares how many times a frog has sex, as long as the legs taste good!!) Start worrying how they spend it. gypsyman

[twoshooter]

I am not as swift as I once was, especially typing, and the old prostate requires attention but I am back!

I was just thinking about what billy said. He may have a point, in fact, lets say I agree! Government employees, and their families/ dependents that make a living completely paid for by the government should NOT be considered taxpayers! I have always thought that people who were not taxpayers should not be voting on what to do with "OUR" money. So , those paid by the government should not be voting. That will save a lot, because no military personnel, their dependents, and no one on a veterans pension should be voting. Those people just suck up money. They VOLUNTEERED, pufft..... is it my problem that their legs are now permanently embeded in the wall of a farmers marker in Kabul?? They should have had better insurance an been less careless.....right??

As for Gypsyman: I don't like what they spend it on any better than you, but I have to pay anyway. Quote from Unforgiven: Little Bill " I just built a house.... I was going to retire.....don't deserve to die like this". Will Muny " deserve don't have a damn thing to do with it".

[garbhead]

Garbhead, let me do this in my best Ricky Ricardo voice, and let me 'splain this. When 45-70 wrote, pay their way, I believe that means getting something for nothing. When somebody ''pays your way'' it means no money out of your pocket. Nothing against Fireman,Policeman, or even civil servants.(Such as twoshooter) They at least work for the money they earn.(at least I hope they do!!) But, what you have to understand, the well that the govt. is going to, is drying up. Tax revenue's are down across the board. Property tax,sales tax,income tax, all down. So, a real life businessman, would downsize,cut the fat, and do what he had to to stay in business. The govt, which depends on this tax base to run, does just the opposite. Lets try and figure out ways to up the tax revenue, hire more people, and get fatter. Look real hard at your natural gas or electric bill, and see how many tax's there are. Couple bucks here, couple there. Doesn't sound like much, add it up with millions of home owners across the country. England has a 70% tax base. I don't know about you, but I sure don't want to work 8 1/2 to 9 months out of the year for the govt. Time has come for govt. workers to realize, their going to have to start paying for part of their health care and pensions out of their paycheck, just like the rest of us do. Gravy train is coming to an end. gypsyman

I don't need you or anyone else 'splaining to me what I can see on my own(parasites who benefit from any tax)...but thanks just the same

[jimster]

The bottom line is the private sector has to be larger than the public sector.  Yes, people that work for the state and federal governments pay tax too, but since taxes pay for their jobs, the money goes around in a circle and runs out pretty fast, obvioulsly it's mathamatically impossible for government employees to pay taxes to support themselves, so fire up the money printing presses which lowers the value of our dollars. The private sector holds it ALL up, the state and federal governments, the unions, pensions, all of it.  So it stands to reason you need to have a large private sector that is not hindered by governments, because that is where everything is generated.  Government can't be allowed to grow while the private sector shrinks, first thing that needs to shrink in hard times is the government.  We have been doing everything backwards for some time now, there is no way things will get better unless we put the brakes on hard and reverse all this...and yep, that will be painful too, but not as painful as going in the direction we are going.
 
I'm not down on public sector employees, I'm just saying nobody is using basic math and that will bring down a house, a business, and any government and there is nothing anyone can do about it...and taxing the small amount of people we are taxing and having almost nobody else paying anything is not going to change a thing. There is not enough wealth in this country to put a dent in the interest we owe even if you took it all, so taxing the wealthy is political, it won't work. We need to receive taxes from more people, we need to stop spending at the government level at the same time.
 
I would not want to pay anymore taxes if I were a billionare, since they use it for corruption, I would say they need to clean their mess up before I would pay them anything more, and the fastest way to shrink government and stop their programs is to cut off their money if they won't do it themselves. Which they won't.
 
So we might have some people divided again...public employees vs. private sector employees....but we shouldn't be...we are in it together.  Now how many public employees would vote to shrink government for the good of the country?  Good question. But in the end the public jobs will go away anyway, sure would be nice if there was a private sector for those people to get into....but that usually gets wrecked before the public employees hit the streets looking for jobs. Too bad it has to be this way. Michigan sent many public employees to the streets because it came down to that in the end, it was a shame the private sector had to say, "welcome to our world" instead of welcoming them into private sector jobs.
 
We never learn. Basic math is there, nobody wants to use it...too painful. Math does not have emotions, it does not feel sorry for anyone and it is not attached to any political party.
 

[twoshooter]

I do not have a great deal of argument with that post. Where I work 10 years ago there were 85 of us, now there are 36. There is no doubt that we could survive with less than is now being spent. However, you don't starve your dog to get rid of the ticks. We are getting pretty close to the margins here, not just fat, but muscle. The debate is where and what to cut. You cannot just expect those already barely at survival levels to"chip in", there is nothing left to chip. One of the things my father taught me was that there was nothing more dangerous than someone with nothing left to lose. Even a coward when cornered with no way out will surprise you. It is better to give some than have it all taken. I hear too little pragmatism here from people whining about "principle". I know dead people who had principle. If someone steals $100 from you and someone else says " I can prevent that for $150", let them steal.  Some here will get all flustered now and start to mouth off.  BUT, if you don't, the next step is for those two to get together, one provides the problem, the other the solution, and they milk you like a cow. You can't fix stupid.

[45-70.gov]

only parasites wanting some one else to pay their way will benefit from this or ANY TAX

So I guess anyone who has driven on a public street , highway, or interstate,  or has depended upon a fire department to help with his fire, or the police to try to make them safe, are to be classified as parasites?

yes  you are 100% correct


if they are not tax payers  .....they are parasites

[45-70.gov]

if this 3.8%  applies to rental trans actions


will the landlords just go up 3.8% on the teneants?


so  who  is the ultimate payer of the NEW tax


the rich landlord or the poor tenent?


the old saying is
''the smart keep getting richer and the dumb keep getting poorer''
or something like that