Libertarian party toying with being the spoiler.

[nw_hunter]

I still don't like anyone running for President (not talking about VP) & that includes Johnson. Johnson was not my pick before when he was running as a Republican. I don't see where his switching tickets has made him better. As a matter of fact, I don't remember others on this forum bragging on him back then either, but I may have forgotten.
 
Could someone show the post/posts where he was thought of as a good candidate back then ?

I remember several on the forum saying they could support him,and I liked him but, we (Constitution minded) voters had a better choice in Ron Paul.Johnson is now running as a Libertarian and if he is on the ballot in Oregon, I'll vote for him.
Someone mentioned Libertarians think they are the only ones that follow the teachings of the founders.I think we've had people from both main stream parties that followed the Constitution.Not many as late, but still a few!

I agree with Dee! I think at this point in time, it's too late to turn things around. Only a total collapse of the present Cabal, and then who knows how things will turn out. Time will tell If it makes one feel better being part of the herd, then vote for the  snake! Either head will do!    JMO

[powderman]

Hunter. Then are you saying that you refuse to vote for the ONLY one running that has a chance to dethrone the obamination?? You are willing to accept another 4 years of obummer destroying America so you can say, I have my pride?? Pride won't get it my friend, only voting for Romney will dethrone the obama supporters pride and joy. Shame on all of you who refuse to vote to send obummer back to kenya. POWDERMAN. 

[finisher]

Blaming Gary Johnson for Mitt Romney's loss in the upcoming election is nothing but liberal logic. The Republicans claim to be the party of personal responsibility but yet want to blame someone else when their candidate loses? That's no different than a black person blaming whitey because he can't get ahead in life.

It's real simple, nominate a candidate who is an actual fiscal conservative that follows the Constitution and I guarantee you that you won't have to worry about losing an election. The Republican party will reap what it has sown. The fact that the Republican party's candidate is running neck and neck in the polls with one of the worst presidents in US history is proof of that.

then  why can't he even win in hte primaries  with out all those democrats voting against him?

 SIMPLE!........Columnist Fred Reed had it correct  (Quote)We are ruled not by a government but by a class. Here the
   media are crucial. Unless you spend time outside of America, you may
   not realize to what extent the press is controlled. The press is
   largely free, yes, but it is also largely owned by a small number of
   corporations which, in turn, are run by people from the same pool
   from which are drawn high-level pols and their advisers. They are
   rich people who know each other and have the same interests. It is
   very nearly correct to say that these people are the government of
   the United States, and that the federal apparatus merely a useful
   theatrical manifestation.


   Finally, though it may not be deliberate, the schools produce a
   pitiably ignorant population that can’t vote wisely. Just as trial
   lawyers don’t want intelligent jurors, as they are harder to
   manipulate, so political parties don’t want educated voters. The
   existence of a puzzled mass gawping at Oprah reduces elections to
   popularity contests modulated by the state of the economy. One party
   may win, yes, or the other. But a TV-besotted electorate doesn’t
   meddle in matters important to its rulers. It has never heard of
   them.

Not enough people use the means available, like the Internet to educate themselves. They instead choose sides and only listen to the mouthpiece of their choice.

**********
 Hey NW, that is too big of a picture you're presenting   If you're not careful, you may cause smoke to come out of some peoples ears accompanied by some uncontrollable twitching  .


Reality is an extremely frightening thing to most people and poses a serious psychological threat to peoples already very fragile little psychological worlds.


Very true though, what you've said.

[Minnesota1]

"I agree with Dee! I think at this point in time, it's too late to turn things around. Only a total collapse of the present Cabal, and then who knows how things will turn out. Time will tell If it makes one feel better being part of the herd, then vote for the  snake! Either head will do!    JMO"


It truly is sad to see someone lazily say that both parties are the same and that's why they are blazing their own trail with a 3rd party.  Answer me these important questions if the 2 parties are the same:

If John McCain would have won, would we have had this:

1.  Nearly 6 trillion dollars in new national debt?
2.  Nationalize health care?
3.  Fast and Furious?
4.  Sotomayor and Kagan as Supreme Court Justices?
5.  All the other lower court pukes Obama has put in?
6.  An EPA Running wild?
7.  So much uncertainty for business out there?
8.  Czars? 

Need I say more?  For people to throw out that they are all the same is intellectual laziness and just another flap they get to say so they do not have to go out and do the hard work or spend the money to help elect good conservatives.  Just look at those 8 I listed and ask yourself if they are the same.  If they are then please list how they are and would have been, I'd love to hear about it.  The list does not even include all the idiots that are in the State Department that will sabotage our country with leaks for the next 20 years, or the CIA, or what he is doing to the Educational Department.   

[Dee]

I have no intention of trying to turn this thread into a religious topic, but I will state that I have, in the past made myself quite clear on my stance of the Mormon religion, and as far as Obama, I believe he has been "self explanatory" as far his religion, if any. I was the same with Bush, and had voted for him twice.
Bush is actually whom brought this voting issue to light in my mind, and heart, when he stated that everyone worships the same god, which they most obviously do not.
Now when I pick up the voting ballet, I am fully aware that God Himself is looking over my shoulder. In this election as in many others recently, we have been given two heathen choices on the ballot to vote for, and sometimes an "also ran" whom has no real chance of winning.
Because God is looking over my shoulder, and I am a "sinner saved by Grace", it is my duty to do what I believe (according to my beliefs) is right. An example would be: Voting for the rapist, because he is less disgusting than the pedophile, is what is going on here.
Some here constantly "Claim Christianity", and condemn other religions, yet follow the heathen in the government hierarchy, hoping for a few crumbs to be sprinkled in their direction, and saying "maybe it will get better" next election. It never does, it only gets worse.
I fully, and quite comfortably follow the instructions in Mark Chapter 12 verse 17. It is not these men "here" whom disagree with me, that I worry about. Their words will disappear when I turn this computer off. It is the one constantly looking over my shoulder, that I want to please, and I fail most times miserably. But I still try.
So I say: You may vote your fears, your heart, your hopes, or your logic, as none of it will not save you, and I will vote my principles, with pride having nothing to do with it.

[Cuts Crooked]

If John McCain would have won, would we have had this:

1.  Nearly 6 trillion dollars in new national debt?
2.  Nationalize health care?
3.  Fast and Furious?
4.  Sotomayor and Kagan as Supreme Court Justices?
5.  All the other lower court pukes Obama has put in?
6.  An EPA Running wild?
7.  So much uncertainty for business out there?
8.  Czars? 

That one is simple to answer..........YES!!!!!!!!

[Dixie Dude]

You know, before radio and television, one had to READ what the cantidates stood for or against in the papers.  No charisma, no one liners, no emotion, just the facts printed in the papers and print media.  That served us well.  FDR used radio and movietime news to tell things.  Nixon was ahead of Kennedy in the polls until they debated on TV.  Kennedy looked good an polished.  Nixon had dark circles under his eyes, and a little beard growth during the day.  Had he shaved before the debates and used a little makeup like Kennedy did, he might have come across better.  Kennedy was ok though, he at least wanted to return to the gold standard and he stood up to the Russians.  He also didn't want to send troops to Vietnam only advisors. 

[45-70.gov]

some  [like dee IN TEXAS]  live in a state who's electoral votes will go against OBAMA for sure
or those living in KALIFORNIA  who obumer will definitly carry


you people can vote  for the best....you vote won'y change a thing anyway


for  those like myself  in a SWING state[like florida]....
not voting AGAINST obumer [size=78%]is totally irresponcible[/size]
we HAVE to vote  only for those with  a chance


those that think we  need a total collapse to set things right


that resembles wha OBUMER is already doing
you must be on his side....either way you are just as contempt-able as obumer
how  can a patriotic american  suggest collapse of  our country

[Needles]

Voting AGAINST a candidate is not the same as voting FOR the other candidate.

[Dee]

Voting AGAINST a candidate is not the same as voting FOR the other candidate.

My, my,. Your logic is dead on. Have you any wisdom that will make others see, that voting "against" Obama, and "for" someone you do not agree with, out of fear of the former, is truly the "rapist" or the "pedifile" thought process, applied to the present situation?
I believe that America collectively "needs waking up" by what ever means necessary, before it slips completely into servitude. Some don't seem to comprehend that "same ole, same ole" has happened again, and "their logic" is not working.

[mcbammer]

Unless  theres  a  huge  population   of  Libertarians   in  Florida  ,  I  dont  see  them   spoiling   anything.

[Dee]

This is very true, and when you dance with the Devil, you have to pay the band, and so America never seems to learn. So the band plays on, and Americans continue to be as predictable as ever. They do the same thing over, and over, and try to justify it to others, whom will not drink either of the two most popular flavors of kool aid with them. They blame the independents for what they themselves are causing to continually occur.

[nw_hunter]

It truly is sad to see someone lazily say that both parties are the same and that's why they are blazing their own trail with a 3rd party.  Answer me these important questions if the 2 parties are the same:

If John McCain would have won, would we have had this:

1.  Nearly 6 trillion dollars in new national debt?
2.  Nationalize health care?
3.  Fast and Furious?
4.  Sotomayor and Kagan as Supreme Court Justices?
5.  All the other lower court pukes Obama has put in?
6.  An EPA Running wild?
7.  So much uncertainty for business out there?
8.  Czars? 

Or what he is doing to the Educational Department.   

Your Serious?  lol!
You think the Ejukshun Department was fine before Obama?
We know the EPA was doing a brilliant job under old Jorge Boosh.
Businesses?.............What stinkin businesses? I think they deserted the sinking ship before this last Lackey was installed. I'm sure old Liberal McCant would have brought them back overnight Never had a problem with the BATF before the O man either?  Someone has been napping along side old Rip Vanwinkle!

Speaking of appointee's ..................I remember GW Bush appointing a Prosecutor as Gov. in Texas, that sent two of our Border Patrol agents to prison for trying to do their job, by preventing illegal drugs to enter our country!

Some of us are tired of the same old Excrement coming from the so called Left and Right, and won't be a part of it anymore.If you see that as being lazy, I suggest you upgrade your glasses. I did! I have been voting for 44 years and all of them as a Republican until last election...............I was a slow learner.

[Dee]

It truly is sad to see someone lazily say that both parties are the same and that's why they are blazing their own trail with a 3rd party.  Answer me these important questions if the 2 parties are the same:

If John McCain would have won, would we have had this:

1.  Nearly 6 trillion dollars in new national debt?
2.  Nationalize health care?
3.  Fast and Furious?
4.  Sotomayor and Kagan as Supreme Court Justices?
5.  All the other lower court pukes Obama has put in?
6.  An EPA Running wild?
7.  So much uncertainty for business out there?
8.  Czars? 

Or what he is doing to the Educational Department.   

Your Serious?  lol!
You think the Ejukshun Department was fine before Obama?
We know the EPA was doing a brilliant job under old Jorge Boosh.
Businesses?.............What stinkin businesses? I think they deserted the sinking ship before this last Lackey was installed. I'm sure old Liberal McCant would have brought them back overnight Never had a problem with the BATF before the O man either?  Someone has been napping along side old Rip Vanwinkle!

Speaking of appointee's ..................I remember GW Bush appointing a Prosecutor as Gov. in Texas, that sent two of our Border Patrol agents to prison for trying to do their job, by preventing illegal drugs to enter our country!

Some of us are tired of the same old Excrement coming from the so called Left and Right, and won't be a part of it anymore.If you see that as being lazy, I suggest you upgrade your glasses. I did! I have been voting for 44 years and all of them as a Republican until last election...............I was a slow learner.

Actually nw_hunter, let us put the blame where it belongs. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT did the Agents, and has since done two more. One not for shooting anyone, but instead for picking a 17 year old illegal carrying 75 pounds of marijuana into the states, up by his hand cuffs.
The two agents you speak of by the way, had their sentences "commuted" for time served by Bush, but he should have pardoned them. Rick Perry, GW's appointed governor chooses to allow the latest two to languish in prison, and say nothing, while giving illegals half price college educations. Just so you'll have it straight, and won't be speaking out of turn.

[Doublebass73]

I have no intention of trying to turn this thread into a religious topic, but I will state that I have, in the past made myself quite clear on my stance of the Mormon religion, and as far as Obama, I believe he has been "self explanatory" as far his religion, if any. I was the same with Bush, and had voted for him twice.
Bush is actually whom brought this voting issue to light in my mind, and heart, when he stated that everyone worships the same god, which they most obviously do not.
Now when I pick up the voting ballet, I am fully aware that God Himself is looking over my shoulder. In this election as in many others recently, we have been given two heathen choices on the ballot to vote for, and sometimes an "also ran" whom has no real chance of winning.
Because God is looking over my shoulder, and I am a "sinner saved by Grace", it is my duty to do what I believe (according to my beliefs) is right. An example would be: Voting for the rapist, because he is less disgusting than the pedophile, is what is going on here.
Some here constantly "Claim Christianity", and condemn other religions, yet follow the heathen in the government hierarchy, hoping for a few crumbs to be sprinkled in their direction, and saying "maybe it will get better" next election. It never does, it only gets worse.
I fully, and quite comfortably follow the instructions in Mark Chapter 12 verse 17. It is not these men "here" whom disagree with me, that I worry about. Their words will disappear when I turn this computer off. It is the one constantly looking over my shoulder, that I want to please, and I fail most times miserably. But I still try.
So I say: You may vote your fears, your heart, your hopes, or your logic, as none of it will not save you, and I will vote my principles, with pride having nothing to do with it.

Excellent post Dee.

[45-70.gov]

Unless  theres  a  huge  population   of  Libertarians   in  Florida  ,  I  dont  see  them   spoiling   anything.

135 votes made the difference between bush and gore

[mcbammer]

Unless  theres  a  huge  population   of  Libertarians   in  Florida  ,  I  dont  see  them   spoiling   anything.

135 votes made the difference between bush and gore

A  prediction   of  the  Florida  vote  is  a  hard  call.  many   voting  blocks   there   .  The  cuban  vote  , the snowbird  retirement  vote  .  the redneck  riviera  vote.  I  wouldnt   bet  those   135  votes  were  all  Libertarians.

[45-70.gov]

but at least  i am just one registered libertarian that did help make a difference


did  i know that at the time......no


dont forget the  ''voteing for the best tho un-electable '' block

[mcbammer]

but at least  i am just one registered libertarian that did help make a difference


did  i know that at the time......no


dont forget the  ''voteing for the best tho un-electable '' block

I  commend   you   on  your  vote  .  God  forbid   if   Gore  were  elected.  Its  going  to  be  up  to  you  and  Florida  again  . 

[Buckskin]

I completely agree with Minnesota1 (which is usually hard to do as a guy from Wisconsin... ), most libertarian's are full of it.  They just like to sit back in the grass and take pot shots at who ever is sitting in the seat and who ever supports them, that way they are never responsible for the outcome and can complain until they are blue in the face, which is what they are best at....  I have a buddy of mine who was a RP fan and voted for him last time, not because he was a libertarian , but because he's too liberal to admit it so that was his out... I think a lot of them are like that, because they realize that voting for Paul, or Johnson or any other "libertarian" is as good as a vote for Obama.
 
Hey, if you think a couple more liberal supreme court justices are no big deal, heathcare sticking, taxes skyrocketing, the destruction of the constitution and what ever else this so called president is planning for his fairwell party... Then I think deep down you are hoping for the colapse of this country, so you can sit back and gloat about being a libertarian...  For what that's worth I have no idea...  Some of you have even admitted it.  Pitiful and you should be ashamed.
 
Stick to your guns (for now), you'll show em' (by putting Obama back in office), say you're doing it for God (yeah right, I'm sure he understands you're psuedo vote for the abortionist), or maybe you'll just not vote (I'm sure all of those that died for you would be proud)...
 
I didn't see any response to Minnesota1 about how little support the typical "libertarian" gives to their uprising... Why, because it's easier to complain and "support" the guy who can't win....

[Cuts Crooked]

Obama --------Romney

One's white--------the other isn't

and that's the only real difference.

[nw_hunter]

My Mistake Dee, Just a little off on the timing. Sutton was brought to Austin by(Then ) Gov. Bush to work as his Criminal Justice Policy Director. What ever that is.

He then followed Bush to DC to serve in the Justice Dept. Concerning the US Mex Border.
Later as Prosecutor he went after Ramos and Copeon. I see now the sorry piece of Crap has resigned!Bush should have given them nothing short of a FULL PARDON! Their lives and their family's are forever ruined as a result.

[Doublebass73]

I completely agree with Minnesota1 (which is usually hard to do as a guy from Wisconsin... ), most libertarian's are full of it.  They just like to sit back in the grass and take pot shots at who ever is sitting in the seat and who ever supports them, that way they are never responsible for the outcome and can complain until they are blue in the face, which is what they are best at....  I have a buddy of mine who was a RP fan and voted for him last time, not because he was a libertarian , but because he's too liberal to admit it so that was his out... I think a lot of them are like that, because they realize that voting for Paul, or Johnson or any other "libertarian" is as good as a vote for Obama.
 
Hey, if you think a couple more liberal supreme court justices are no big deal, heathcare sticking, taxes skyrocketing, the destruction of the constitution and what ever else this so called president is planning for his fairwell party... Then I think deep down you are hoping for the colapse of this country, so you can sit back and gloat about being a libertarian...  For what that's worth I have no idea...  Some of you have even admitted it.  Pitiful and you should be ashamed.
 
Stick to your guns (for now), you'll show em' (by putting Obama back in office), say you're doing it for God (yeah right, I'm sure he understands you're psuedo vote for the abortionist), or maybe you'll just not vote (I'm sure all of those that died for you would be proud)...
 
I didn't see any response to Minnesota1 about how little support the typical "libertarian" gives to their uprising... Why, because it's easier to complain and "support" the guy who can't win....

So let me get this straight, your party nominates a dyed in the wool Massachusetts liberal with an atrocious voting record that rivals Obama's and you expect Libertarians to abandon our party's nominee in favor of your liberal?
Who did you say was full of it?

[Buckskin]

I completely agree with Minnesota1 (which is usually hard to do as a guy from Wisconsin... ), most libertarian's are full of it.  They just like to sit back in the grass and take pot shots at who ever is sitting in the seat and who ever supports them, that way they are never responsible for the outcome and can complain until they are blue in the face, which is what they are best at....  I have a buddy of mine who was a RP fan and voted for him last time, not because he was a libertarian , but because he's too liberal to admit it so that was his out... I think a lot of them are like that, because they realize that voting for Paul, or Johnson or any other "libertarian" is as good as a vote for Obama.
 
Hey, if you think a couple more liberal supreme court justices are no big deal, heathcare sticking, taxes skyrocketing, the destruction of the constitution and what ever else this so called president is planning for his fairwell party... Then I think deep down you are hoping for the colapse of this country, so you can sit back and gloat about being a libertarian...  For what that's worth I have no idea...  Some of you have even admitted it.  Pitiful and you should be ashamed.
 
Stick to your guns (for now), you'll show em' (by putting Obama back in office), say you're doing it for God (yeah right, I'm sure he understands you're psuedo vote for the abortionist), or maybe you'll just not vote (I'm sure all of those that died for you would be proud)...
 
I didn't see any response to Minnesota1 about how little support the typical "libertarian" gives to their uprising... Why, because it's easier to complain and "support" the guy who can't win....

So let me get this straight, your party nominates a dyed in the wool Massachusetts liberal with an atrocious voting record that rivals Obama's and you expect Libertarians to abandon our party's nominee in favor of your liberal?
Who did you say was full of it?

Abandon your party's nominee??? LOL!!! You didn't even know who that person was until yesterday!!! Which proves my point of libertarian in name only and for reasoning explained above....

[Cuts Crooked]

.......and the "big lie" keeps right on working here on GBO!

[45-70.gov]

i had 2 bumper stickers one on the truck one at my work station


''don't blame me i voted libertarian''


i was proud to display this for 20 years  i was a member


it  might as just as well said


'DON'T BLAME ME....I DIDN'T VOTE''.....same  impact

[Doublebass73]

Abandon your party's nominee??? LOL!!! You didn't even know who that person was until yesterday!!! Which proves my point of libertarian in name only and for reasoning explained above....

Do you have proof of that or do you just like throwing BS against the wall and hoping that it sticks?

You argue just like a liberal, when all else fails just make stuff up about your opponent and hope that others believe it. What a joke.

[nw_hunter]

i had 2 bumper stickers one on the truck one at my work station


''don't blame me i voted libertarian''


i was proud to display this for 20 years  i was a member


it  might as just as well said


'DON'T BLAME ME....I DIDN'T VOTE''.....same  impact

What made you see the light?   Actually Libertarianism is political philosophies that promote freedom, and Liberty!Libertarians want a society that emphasizes small government. Not this huge Federal power that comes from the current Cabal of leftist Democrats and Republican Neo-cons.You don't have to belong to any party to believe that way!Just have the desire to be free and mind your own business

[twoshooter]

Nothing makes me want to support a party like having its members call me a treasonous scum sucking vermin. 12 pounds of EXLAX and this whole thread could be reduced to  two or three long sentences. No one who is interested enough to read one of these posts will be changed 1 iota by anything that will be found herein. We have our minds made up, tha

[Gary G]

I completely agree with Minnesota1 (which is usually hard to do as a guy from Wisconsin... ), most libertarian's are full of it.  They just like to sit back in the grass and take pot shots at who ever is sitting in the seat and who ever supports them, that way they are never responsible for the outcome and can complain until they are blue in the face, which is what they are best at....  I have a buddy of mine who was a RP fan and voted for him last time, not because he was a libertarian , but because he's too liberal to admit it so that was his out... I think a lot of them are like that, because they realize that voting for Paul, or Johnson or any other "libertarian" is as good as a vote for Obama.
 
Hey, if you think a couple more liberal supreme court justices are no big deal, heathcare sticking, taxes skyrocketing, the destruction of the constitution and what ever else this so called president is planning for his fairwell party... Then I think deep down you are hoping for the colapse of this country, so you can sit back and gloat about being a libertarian...  For what that's worth I have no idea...  Some of you have even admitted it.  Pitiful and you should be ashamed.
 
Stick to your guns (for now), you'll show em' (by putting Obama back in office), say you're doing it for God (yeah right, I'm sure he understands you're psuedo vote for the abortionist), or maybe you'll just not vote (I'm sure all of those that died for you would be proud)...
 
I didn't see any response to Minnesota1 about how little support the typical "libertarian" gives to their uprising... Why, because it's easier to complain and "support" the guy who can't win....

So let me get this straight, your party nominates a dyed in the wool Massachusetts liberal with an atrocious voting record that rivals Obama's and you expect Libertarians to abandon our party's nominee in favor of your liberal?
Who did you say was full of it?

Abandon your party's nominee??? LOL!!! You didn't even know who that person was until yesterday!!! Which proves my point of libertarian in name only and for reasoning explained above....

I have followed Gary Johnson since he was first announced as a Republican candidate and the pundits never let him on TV. He is Ron Paul lite, but he is much better than Rombama on the fiscal issues as well as the Constitution. If you want bread and circuses, and your grand-kids living in a cage, in poverty, then by all means, vote for Rombama and you will be speeding down the road to serfdom.