Make a case for weight or volume of powder charge...

[Land_Owner]

I have always weighed every long gun powder charge, except, as below, those that are thrown by the progressive press (.223's).  Handgun charges are typically progressive thrown and while the setup is weighed to achieve the charge desired, each and every round is not/cannot be weighed, so some reliance on volume is realized as I doubt the progressive is delivering the exact 0.05 grain charge each and every time. 

I state this as I know each powder charge thrown for a weighed long gun round is rarely exact.  If every charge thrown was exact after setup, the need for a powder trickler would be unnecessary.

I have read very few discussions on volumetric charge dispensing.  Some powder manufacturers make ladles for that purpose.  Mostly, powder mfg's publish charge weights.  So I stick to charge weight for long guns and to charge volume for handguns and .223's (as ascertained by first weighing the setup charge) as an accurate substitute in those progressive applications when each charge weight cannot be ascertained.

[LaOtto222]

I weigh all my loads, but I do not have a progressive press either. I do have a Chargemaster 1500 that I now use. I do not feel it makes a whole lot of difference if you measure by volume or if you measure by weight for accuracy. I used to throw a light charge, then trickle in the final weight. However, I do feel that the powder type you use for volume measuring is important to get consistant results. A ball powder is ideal for volume measuring. I have not switched over to a progressive, because I feel I do not have as much control over the reloading process. I had all single shot, bolt guns and revolvers, with the exception of rim fire semi-autos, so I did not feel the need for anything but a single stage press. I have recently acquired a Ruger ranch rifle and an auto pistol for self protection. I can see how a progressive would make feeding them convenient. I am detail orientated with my reloading and I just can not get over the feeling of not being in control with a progressive. Bench rest shooters, do it both ways. Some measure by volume right at the shooting bench and some do measure by weight at the reloading bench ahead of the shoot. They both get good results. Again, I do not think it makes a bit of difference how you measure your powder, but it does need to be consistant.

Good Luck and Good Shooting
 

[Graybeard]

I've been reloading at least 45 years perhaps longer. In that time I have no idea how many hundreds of thousands of rounds I've loaded for handguns, rifles and shotguns.

In that time I'd hazard a guess I've weighted fewer than a thousand and used volumertic for the rest. That should give you a clue as to my thoughts on the matter. Those I have weighted are primarily for rifle loads with the powder granules that look like small logs. These days I seldom bother with such powders anymore as I just don't like to weight them.

I do now have a Hornady dispenser/scale so in the future might again use more of the logs as the Hornady unit takes the hassle out of weighting charges.

[necchi]

Depends on the powder don't it?
Stick powders don't cut or drop real well from a volumetric measure.

[yooper77]

I weight all my rifle and handgun loads which are very consistent for all my needs.

yooper77

[Larry L]

I could write a book on this but I'll cut to the matter. If you think weighing is the more exact, you'd be wrong. Beam scales are not 100% and neither are the electronic scales. They are close and for our purposes, are close enough but they will vary weighing the exact same item. Here's an article for you to read:
http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html


Getting exactly the same weight out of any electronic dispenser is also not exact. Here's a comparison although you need to remember that it's being compared to a beam scale but the differences are pretty broad, considering.
http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers01.html
http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers02.html


There are other factors that can make weighing vary in results like moisture from the air that's absorbed by the powder can change the actual volume as well as air density. If you've ever shot in a traveling benchrest league you know better than to load up ammo at home and expect it to perform the same at a different altitude. Air density effects a scale just like it does the bullet.


Over the years I've had the privilege to meet and shoot with some of the best in the game. Because they all use a powder measure, I do the same. Tubb uses a Harrel, I use an RCBS with the small cylinder for all of mine-rifle or pistol. It throws even stick or flake powders on the money. Can't say if that's true with all measures but it works for me. Personally, I don't see that it matters all that much. Both are going to vary some. It's more of a personal choice than which is the more accurate. I doubt anybody can argue Tubbs success using a Harrels.

[helotaxi]

If you've developed a stable load and choose your powder wisely, throwing powder charges is as consistent as you need.  Choosing a powder that measures consistently is key here.  The good news is that the powder manufacturers are making it easier in this regard every year and with every new powder that it released.  If you examine them, you'll notice that pretty much every new powder released is either a very short kernel extruded or a ball powder.  They measure very consistently through a volumetric measure.  A max spread of 0.2gn (+/- 0.1gn) is easily achievable and perfectly adequate for a well developed load with the new short grain extruded powders and zero deviation is pretty normal with ball powder.

I keep a trickler on the bench, but mostly for load workup.  It's much easier to get the measure in the ballpark and trickle up to the desired weight than it is to gnat's rear-end the powder measure if you're only loading 3-5 rounds of each weight.  If I'm loading a lot of the same round though, I take the time to set up the powder measure either on the bench or the progressive and weigh 10 charges or so to verify that I have what I want and then just let it go.

[LaOtto222]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/featured/6mmbr-loading-for-newbies/

Pay particular attention to the "Load Development and Bullet Choice" section. The author suggests to weigh each load twice - "DO weight every load...twice". He is talking about precision shooting at 600 yards with a 6BR

As said, some prefer to weigh loads and some prefer to volume "throw" theirs. Do what you feel comfortable with, I do not think it makes a whole lot of difference. I load for a lot of different cartridges and I find it easier to adjust weights going from one to another than to adjust the powder thrower for each change. With my Chargemaster 1500, I can punch in the weight I want and it will weigh the charge with in + or - .1 grains. it will do it the same if it is a "stick" powder, flake powder or ball powder. If I were loading for one case and did little changing from one weight to another and used the same powder, then it would make sense to volume load, because you would not need to adjust the thrower at all or not very often. But that is my take and like I said, I do not think that in the long run it makes a whole lot of difference. It is done both ways by precision shooters, so for the average shooter, it makes sense to ME to do what is easiest for you.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[jhalcott]

 When I was "red lining" my loads for extra speed and distance, I weighed EVERY load! Then I found out about ball powders! Now I weigh enough to get the charge weight I want and throw powder till I fill all the cases. IF I am loading for extreme accuracy, I still weigh each charge,just can't help myself! But then ,being a bit anal, I weigh ALL the components AND the finished rounds!

[Land_Owner]

Let's get real...

Prometheus Powder Measures...$1175

This is the GBO Hand Loading for Rifles and Handguns Forum, a Public forum for certain.  Read posts here for a while and it becomes clear, most of us won't ever get there.

I was and am talking reasonably priced beam and electronic scales with inherent (in)accuracy of +/-0.10 grain of powder vs. measured CC cups with inherent visual (in)accuracy of +/- grains of powder for reloading hand gun and rifle cartridges .

I commend you for the links to these 6mmBR comparisons, but due primarily to price, few of us will benefit.

[Swampman]

I weigh rifle loads and drop pistol loads.  When I hunted with a pistol I weighed them too.

[Ranch13]

Doesn't much matter how you do it or what you call it, anyone that's intent on keeping all their appendages attached, check the weight of a powder charge dropped, dipped or otherwise dispensed .
So technically you're doing both, weighing and volume.... But just going by volume alone without verifing the charge weight can get you in some serious trouble with some powder bullet and cartridge combinations.
 And yes most of the time a tenth or two of a grain variation won't hurt the accuracy of a given load enough to bother most things, but when it comes to punching holes in targets and building scores it makes a huge difference.

[BBF]

I weigh 'em twice(electronic) !! Every one of them since I have the time, it is a hobby and I don't load a big bunch at any one time.
 
Working up an accurate load sometimes gets down to as little a grain to 1 1/2 grains. Under that situation a thrown charge will not do.

[helotaxi]

And yes most of the time a tenth or two of a grain variation won't hurt the accuracy of a given load enough to bother most things, but when it comes to punching holes in targets and building scores it makes a huge difference.

Some of the best long range shooters in the world load their ammo on a progressive press and don't weigh every charge.

[BBF]

And yes most of the time a tenth or two of a grain variation won't hurt the accuracy of a given load enough to bother most things, but when it comes to punching holes in targets and building scores it makes a huge difference.

Some of the best long range shooters in the world load their ammo on a progressive press and don't weigh every charge.

There are load,bullet and rifle combo's that are forgiving with the variations. Others are not.

[Ranch13]

And yes most of the time a tenth or two of a grain variation won't hurt the accuracy of a given load enough to bother most things, but when it comes to punching holes in targets and building scores it makes a huge difference.

Some of the best long range shooters in the world load their ammo on a progressive press and don't weigh every charge.

Those same folks are extremely miticulous in sorting components etc for the slightest variance, and they also use very consistant technique. Longrange ammo isn't slopped together.

[stimpylu32]

I weigh rifle loads and drop pistol loads.  When I hunted with a pistol I weighed them too.

This never made any sence to me , dropping a small powder charge that could be as much as .5 grains over could be BAD , 1/2 a grain in a 2.5 grain load is 20% while a 1/2 grain in a 25 grain load is only 2% , which would you be more willing to shoot in front of your face ?
 
stimpy

[victorcharlie]

I weigh all my rifle loads and every 10th dropped pistol load.

[helotaxi]

And yes most of the time a tenth or two of a grain variation won't hurt the accuracy of a given load enough to bother most things, but when it comes to punching holes in targets and building scores it makes a huge difference.

Some of the best long range shooters in the world load their ammo on a progressive press and don't weigh every charge.

Those same folks are extremely miticulous in sorting components etc for the slightest variance, and they also use very consistant technique. Longrange ammo isn't slopped together.

Never meant to imply that it is, but it is definitely worth noting that meticulous weighing of every charge is not part of their regimen.  You also have to make the distinction between benchrest shooters (known to be a little excessive in their compulsion) and practical shooters that shoot for score or "hits" not groups at long range.  The practical crowd just buys good components and uses them, understanding that more trigger time is going to benefit them more than time spent at the bench with a comparator measuring bullet ogives or a lab scale weighing bullets, brass and powder charges out to the 0.001gn.

Powder isn't perfectly uniform.  Every kernal has a different surface area and burns at a very slightly different rate.  Likewise no two bullets are perfectly identical nor two primers or cases.  As such even powder charges measured to the tiniest fraction of a grain are going to exhibit differences in velocity.  You can chase that "perfect" load all you want but achieving a load with a max spread of 0 fps for a statistically significant sample size isn't going to happen.  Single digit max spreads with a tiny standard dev is relatively easy to achieve and will suffice.  You can get that level of precision with thrown powder charges.

[charles p]

Bench rest shooters I used to observe loaded by volume.
 
I weigh until my dropper is dead on for about five cycles, then drop about 20 and test again.  After that, I just drop.  Can't tell any difference.  I used to weigh them all.

[jhalcott]

 I once had several cans of identical powder. all had different lot #'s. I decided to put them all in the same larger container, but my brother said it would be a bad idea! I set the measure and dropped a dozen charges from each can,empting the hopper between cans. Then I loaded 10 rounds of 6mm ammo from each can. There WERE some differences iin charge weight from each can, about .2 grain +/-.This is about half a grain total top to bottom.  There were also some accuracy variations. My NORMAL load would shoot into sub half inch groups(5 shots @100). I had to adjuust the charge weight to get this from the other lots. I DID mix enough of the cans to load a dozen rounds just to SEE what would happen. My old charge had to be adjusted down about 0.2 grain to get back to the tiny groups expected. I was using this ammo in competition and for ground hog hunting. NOT bench rest, just club shoots. When I lost the large farms to housing , I started to drop down in caliber from 6mm to .17 REmington . I found that a one inch group was more than accurate enough for the distances I was shooting. So I am not as anal as I used to be with my reloads!

[Ranch13]

[]Never meant to imply that it is, but it is definitely worth noting that meticulous weighing of every charge is not part of their regimen.  You also have to make the distinction between benchrest shooters (known to be a little excessive in their compulsion) and practical shooters that shoot for score or "hits" not groups at long range.  The practical crowd just buys good components and uses them, understanding that more trigger time is going to benefit them more than time spent at the bench with a comparator measuring bullet ogives or a lab scale weighing bullets, brass and powder charges out to the 0.001gn.

Powder isn't perfectly uniform.  Every kernal has a different surface area and burns at a very slightly different rate.  Likewise no two bullets are perfectly identical nor two primers or cases.  As such even powder charges measured to the tiniest fraction of a grain are going to exhibit differences in velocity.  You can chase that "perfect" load all you want but achieving a load with a max spread of 0 fps for a statistically significant sample size isn't going to happen.  Single digit max spreads with a tiny standard dev is relatively easy to achieve and will suffice.  You can get that level of precision with thrown powder charges.

I can tell you from  many thousands of rounds sent down range that even swattin 8ft square gongs at 1000 yds doesn't happen very often if you don't make your loads just as consistant and as accurate as they can be. If you've got a good technigue on the powder thrower you can achieve good loads for long range (to be clear anything under 600 yds is midrange and over is long range), but those charge weights are still verified at some point and often many points with a scale.....

[helotaxi]

I can tell you from  many thousands of rounds sent down range that even swattin 8ft square gongs at 1000 yds doesn't happen very often if you don't make your loads just as consistant and as accurate as they can be.

Everything with regard to consistency can be described with regard to standard deviation and max spread on muzzle velocities.  8ft is 96".  A 100fps max spread will keep every round on the the 8ft gong using a .30cal 168SMK with an average velocity of 2600fps, a center hold and a 1MOA rifle.  I would hardly consider a 100fps spread all that consistent, especially when getting down significantly lower than that can be done with thrown powder charges.  Powder weight isn't the most important factor when it comes to consistent loads because the powder itself simply isn't that consistent.  Neck tension is probably the single most important factor followed by bullet uniformity and concentricity.  A good load will exhibit single digit max spreads, and can be built consistently with thrown, not individually weighed, powder charges.  Ball powders and the newer short kernel powders make throwing charges +/- 0.1gn very easy and for a cartridge of the general capacity of the .308, that is plenty precise to build a very consistent load around.  That works out to less than 0.5% max variation in powder charges.  If that were to directly relate to velocity, and it doesn't, that would be a max spread around 13fps for a .308.  In reality it will get lost in the noise of case inconsistencies, bullet inconsistencies, sparrow flatulence, etc...  Bottom line, getting the powder charge exact in a rifle cartridge of medium or greater capacity isn't critical; it just isn't.

[Ranch13]

Might not be critical but it dang sure don't hurt either.

[1armoured]

I use a cylindrical/mini stick powder in Hodgdons/ADI's H4895/AR2206H in both my .308 and .222's


I find it difficult to throw consistent charges by volume in my 'ordinary' throwers.


Besides the inherent 'pick up sticks' consistency of the powder, the cutters sometimes have a difficulty.


I consequently weigh each charge, even if it's just for piece of mind.


I no longer shoot competition, but I do enjoy the satisfaction of shooting acceptable groups in my sporters.


I also weigh each charge of Lil'Gun for my .22Hornet, as the powder seems a bit different to a normal ball, and consistency is probably a bit more critical in these little cartridges.


I haven't checked one method against the other.
No need, shooting is just a hobby, as is the reloading side of it, which i enjoy, and I've plenty of time.


As others have pointed out, powder is just one potential variable in the big picture,
together with;
cartridge
primer
projectile and it's variances
neck tension
and probably a few more,
besides the rifle and the shooter


Let's face it, good results take a lot of effort by a lot of people along the way.


cheers,
SS

[RevGeo]

All of my loading is for hunting. I developed my loads by weighing and then made dippers that held the right amount. I also use a set of Lee powder dippers. My scale has been sitting in the box for a long time. I always use ball powders for rifle loads - usually H380 for my 30-40 AI and 22SavHP AI.
I suppose if I was a target shooter I would weigh all my loads.
I use a dipper for my pistol (.357 S&W) as well. I always use Unique in my pistol and it dips well. 

[res45]

When I first start reloading about 30 years ago I used to weight all my charges for both pistol and rifle loads,today after many years of testing I've found it just simply isn't necessary for the type of shooting that I do or the ranges that I shoot at or the load densities that I use.



Gun writer John Barsness is a very experienced reloader with a lot of shooting industry inside information.  A very intelligent writer, during his tenure at HANDLOADER magazine he wrote.

There isn't any real advantage in weighing each charge rather than using a powder measure, except perhaps in some very small cases with very large-grained powder, an unlikely combination. This is because powder doesn't always ignite exactly the same way from each case, so any tiny amount of charge variation is lost.

Plus, when we are looking for an accurate load, we're trying to match the powder charge with the vibrations of the barrel. Usually a half-grain either way won't affect this much.

I've pretty much found this to be the case although about 0.2  +/- grains or less is what I normally experience with the type powders and the RCBS DUO measure and Lil Dandy throwers I have.  The thrown charges may not shoot to the exact point of aim as the weighed charges but the groups are the same size and all it takes is a simple scope or sight adjustment to get back on target. 

The fact is that the small  + /-  in powder charge variation falls within the sweet spot so to speak.     I do load one cartridge with a pretty course stick powder that I did weight out each individual charge,but I loaded up those rds. many years ago for a particular rifle that doesn't get that much,at some point I will load up a test batch of thrown charges vs. the weighed charge and shoot some test groups.  Unless there is some very extreme  + /- charge variation that goes outside the rifles barrel vibration accuracy cycle I don't expect much change other than POI.


As far as weighed charges vs. thrown charges I only see the need to weight a charges for my use in very extreme cases otherwise I'll just continues to throw all my charges as they fit and suit my needs for the type shooting that I do.

[Dave in WV]

It depends on the powder I'm using for me. I have a Redding powder measure that does a great job and I've measured some loads that have been just as accurate as weighed loads for me. The "short cut" stick powders have really helped for measuring loads.

[D Fischer]

I have never had a problem dropping flake and ball powder. Get the charge to where you want it. Then throw ten charges into the pan and set the scale up to weigh ten charges at a time. If you hit on, then you can be pretty sure you don't have a problem. Tube type powders I weight every charge. I set the scale light and trickle up every charge. Truth be known, I don't think that that is necessary. If the measure handle is worked the same every time, the charge will be more than close enough every time. I have tried it just to see if it really works and it does. To do it, I take the handle up and fill the chamber. Then I give it a couple fast sharp bumps. When I do that, the charge come's out so close every time it wouldn't matter. But I am hung up on weighing each chg of tube powder, been doing it 40 some years and can't find a reason not to now.  Think of it this way, how does progressive press's work if each charge had to be weighed/ Lot of guy's will say to use only flake or ball powder, maybe!

[keith44]

when loading for pistol (.38,.41,.44) if I am not wanting absolute max loads (which I rarely try for) I look for a powder that throws consistently and fills the case at least 1/2 way.  These are used for close in plinking and general shooting.

If I use one of the above for hunting, where ranges could (and have) extend to 80+ yards then I weigh each charge.

Similarly with my rifles, the straight wall cases are loaded by the same methods, for the same reasons.  My bottlenecked and high pressure magnum rifles have not only the powder weighed, but also the bullets.  This is because I only shoot these at ranges that the other guns just should not be pushed to.  Prarie dogs, coyotes, deer, and antelope at and beyond 500 yards.