If you are waiting for the government to collapse, how do know it will change?

[Minnesota1]

I've read through a bunch of the political threads here.  I'm interested in all those who are "not going to vote or are voting libertarian and can't wait for the government to collapse." 

Let's talk about that.  I'd like to know this:

1.  If the government falls apart, who would lead your restructuring?  Gary Johnson?  Ron Paul?  Do you think a country would follow them in any numbers?
2.  What makes you think your views would automatically be accepted? 
3.  Do you realize that the media would still be there and they would paint you as backwoods hillbilly extremists?
4.  By destroying what we have, that would mean everyone would start with nothing:  no savings, retirements, seniors, retirees's and millions more would be left desolate and suffering.
5.  We would not have a military.  No government = no pay = no soldiers, etc.  We would be vulnerable to attack from China, Russia, (Cuba and Venezuela?     )

I personally think we would be far worse off.  The chaos would be extreme.  I don't know if many of you actually try to go beyond the thought of keeping your powder dry or anything more than that.  The media would sway most American's against everything you would want.  They'd make it all out to be conservative's fault that this happened in the first place.  Don't believe me?  Look at the depression, the housing crisis, etc.  No democrat or liberal is ever blamed.  American's believe it is always the conservative's fault.  To think that people will automatically "see the light" is devoid of fact and is a pipe dream libertarians have.  Look at Greece?  Have they seen the light?  Has any country seen the light when they've been fiscallydestroyed?

How do you know those with guns would even support you and your agenda?  Seems to me, that the libertarian's view, would not be the majority conservative view and thus division and possibly a civil war.  Don't think that those who believe in smaller governments would automatically win all that they want.  In fact, even if we did go back to scratch, we'd be lucky to have a new constitution anywhere near as good as we have now. If you started everything new, it would only be a matter of time before the country would end up in the same place we are today.

Also something to think about.  When crisis and fiscal destruction have happened in the past--Who stepped in immediately?  The Communists and leftists and they grabbed power and crush dissidents.  They are doing so in Greece also look at the Arab countries now.  They will already be organized and prepared and probably have outside help from other big powers in the world.   So don't think things will be like they were during the Revolutionary war.  It could easily go the other way. 

I think you should look into yourself and think about this and realize it when you say you will not vote for someone because he is not 100% what I want.  No one is nor will they ever be.   

[Cuts Crooked]

I think you should look into yourself and think about this and realize it when you say you will not vote for someone because he is not 100% what I want.  No one is nor will they ever be.

And I think you should look into yourself and think about this....God will be looking over your shoulder when you pull that ever.

[SHOOTALL]

I doubt we would rebuild if the military was not aval. to discourage attacks from other countries or home brewed groups. We would be occupied and "guided" in the direction the invaders wished.
We would not likely ever have it as good as it is now. Wealth would be reduced or just be gone.
Govt. services would be gone .
It would be best if all the speical intrest groups got over what ever it is they are offended about.
All Americans need to be Americans not ____?_______  American. People need to stop confusing hertiage with citizenship.
Both are good until used aginst each other !
Cuts Crooked are you saying God dosen't want his followers to vote for the least evil ? better to allow more evil to win ? The war on evil has raged since Adam & Eve and will go on . Better to take what wins we can and keep chipping away at evil if we can't take it out in one blow . IMHO

[Cuts Crooked]

Cuts Crooked are you saying God dosen't want his followers to vote for the least evil ? better to allow more evil to win ? The war on evil has raged since Adam & Eve and will go on . Better to take what wins we can and keep chipping away at evil if we can't take it out in one blow . IMHO

ROFLMDO!!!!!!

You are treading dangerously close to a barred subject......"lessor of two evils"....only one thread in which that is permitted in here, remember?

Irrespective, there is no real difference b'tween Romabama and Oromney. All you gotta do is look over their records to see it. One is a baby killing gun grabber, the other is a gun grabbing baby killer.

And yes, America could easily take it all down in one swell foop, if they would only vote for a real Constitutionalist......but they won't. It's too late. The commies have won and are just waiting for the corpse to start smelling.

[dukkillr]

I decided to allow another lesser of two evils topic to proceed.  Boy was that dumb.  The reason those threads ultimately all had to be consolidated in one place was that a small group of people on both sides of the issue suddenly took over every thread.  Nothing else could be discussed, nobody was ever going to change anything, and very few people were even pressing their point with a dignity that would suggest credibility.  I hoped something had changed.  I was wrong.
 
There is a place for you to make your case, but this thread is about (apparently?) the collapse of the government, and something or other.  It may actually belong in the survival section, we'll see.  What it is NOT about is voting third party vs major party.  You have (now) two threads to do that in.

[SHOOTALL]

Sorry I didn't know about the LOTE post .
I also think there are Americans who will over come the challenges and get America back on track.

[twoshooter]

I doubt seriously that many here think the government will ever "collapse" absent an asteroid strike or the Yellowstone mega volcano erupting. All of those wealthy ( the real ones- not the ones you see everyday like Trump et al) people are not going to set around and let someone tear down their playhouse. We are the routing mechanism for the bulk of the money and force in the world that maintains the balance. They are not going to let that change unless and until they have an alternative routing mechanism in place. Perhaps in 50-75 years that will be possible, maybe not. There are a few people so radical and delusional that they actually think they will wind up in direct conflict with the government, but not many. The battle is about ideas, and for hearts and minds. We are the last country on earth that maintains the proposition that power derives from the people. I do not know how accurate that may be, but at least we have been able to maintain our illusion, which is critically important. It is called "HOPE", and as long as it is alive, so shall we be.
   When I supported the "carry movement" it was not so much about actually carrying a firearm, it is about the mindset that you are primarily responsible for yourself, that you do not have to wait on or depend upon others. That won out in my state. It has made a noticeable difference in the social climate here. THAT is what we can do, make a noticeable difference, make the status quo nervous, prevent smugness and arrogance from reigning supreme. Like the "civilized" person who has lived in the suburbs all their lives when in the night in the woods hears the howl of a wolf, they have shivers run up their spine. Instinctively they know somewhere in their primitive recesses, what is out there, there is an awareness that rises, an uneasiness that makes them more cautious, more thoughtful, less arrogant. We are that howl.

[SHOOTALL]

you mean the crowd that considers roughing it is a hotel with out room service .................

[P.A. Myers]

What is now almost unavoidable is a complete financial collaspe. The dollar worth nothing. Will the remaining govt simply zero out all accounts and start again or civil war or both?  I think if the military is weak at this point we may be attacked by France. I believe that after two hundred years they still want Louisana back.    P.A.

[Gary G]

Let's talk about that.  I'd like to know this:
1.  If the government falls apart, who would lead your restructuring?  Gary Johnson?  Ron Paul?  Do you think a country would follow them in any numbers?
Top down, or centrally planned economies have never worked. Look at all the countries trying that approach that have failed. Government is always a handicap on the economy. Their activities destroy capital which is the backbone of a vibrant economy. No one or two leaders is needed for restructuring. A bottom up approach is what built this economy and made it the greatest. Entrepreneurs utilize available resources to build the things needed. After the government collapses, all of the machinery and factories will still be there.
2.  What makes you think your views would automatically be accepted? 
My views are not important. If twenty people landed on an island, an economy would develop even without government, (faster without a government). If one decided to be government, then nineteen would have to provide a portion of their production for the one.
3.  Do you realize that the media would still be there and they would paint you as backwoods hillbilly extremists?
The media is dying now. It would be hard for a corpse to tell you how to think.
4.  By destroying what we have, that would mean everyone would start with nothing:  no savings, retirements, seniors, retirees's and millions more would be left desolate and suffering.
Like I said, all the machines and facilities will still be there and workers will be needed. Without government everyone would have a job because there is always work that needs to be done. From the beginning you have had two kinds of people that try to make a living off of other peoples productivity because work is hard and not much fun. One is the thief and the other is in the government.
5.  We would not have a military.  No government = no pay = no soldiers, etc.  We would be vulnerable to attack from China, Russia, (Cuba and Venezuela?     )
Germany would not attack switzerland because there every household was armed. Hitler feared that he would loose to many of his soldiers. Attacking countries attack opposing governments, not people. Costa Rica gave up their army sixty years ago to build schools and they are better off now. Although they have resources, they have not been attacked nor even threatened; especially since they are not a threat to anyone else.

[Empty Quiver]

I think there is a very good example of what the collapse of a super power looks like. USSR had pretty well documented case of government collapse. The "world" would not let things go too far too fast.
 
Why can you just imagine what a bunch of drunk rednecks would do with a missile sub on a friday night? We don't have any of those tiny little suitcase nukes.
 
Do you honestly think there will be a hole where the government used to be ?  Really? Here is a little visual for you to try at home. Fill the bathtub full of water. Now get yourself a Red Solo Cup. Submerge that Red Solo Cup in the tub and remove. Now can you identify the hole where you removed the water (government). I didn't think so.
 
Carry on.

[blind ear]

The power structure behind the Soviet Union is still there and still running the show. Putin is the director of ?
 
The frightening thing if the US government falls will be if the power structure "doesn't" change. That would mean that the European banks are still controlling us, our economy.
-
If the fall of the government was followed by an economy not under the controll of a Federal Reserve type system, (where all banking was paying hommage to a master bank that had no investment in it's own exsistence while at the same time that bank was collecting hommage from all transactions within the nation), there is a possibility that the outcome could be revolutionary. ear

[SHOOTALL]

What is now almost unavoidable is a complete financial collaspe. The dollar worth nothing. Will the remaining govt simply zero out all accounts and start again or civil war or both?  I think if the military is weak at this point we may be attacked by France. I believe that after two hundred years they still want Louisana back.    P.A.

If france attacks we could makle a profit on scrape metal and fund the recovery from the weapons they would drop ...........

[SHOOTALL]

BTW ya'll do realize that communism is set up to take over in a revolution . It takes less to set up than a federal form of govt. So if we have an all out revolution what will we gain ? what will we become ?
 

[Empty Quiver]

The power structure behind the Soviet Union is still there and still running the show. My point exactly. Putin is the director of ?
 
The frightening thing if the US government falls will be if the power structure "doesn't" change. See above. That would mean that the European banks are still controlling us, our economy.
-
If the fall of the government was followed by an economy not under the controll of a Federal Reserve type system, (where all banking was paying hommage to a master bank that had no investment in it's own exsistence while at the same time that bank was collecting hommage from all transactions within the nation), there is a possibility that the outcome could be revolutionary. ear

The Golden Rule will be the rule of the land. Much as it is today.

[Gary G]

BTW ya'll do realize that communism is set up to take over in a revolution . It takes less to set up than a federal form of govt. So if we have an all out revolution what will we gain ? what will we become ?

Today almost half of the people depend on government and that is growing every month. Communism is when 100% of the people depend on the government. After the coming government induced financial collapse, almost no one will believe that they can depend on the government for anything.


It is in the nature of man to want to get the most he can with the least amount of sweat. This attitude is what leads to big government. Then people depend on government as they would a daddy and the government conveys the message that "we can do whatever is needed". The truth is that they are a bunch of psychopathic lawyers that know nothing about running an economy. They are pretenders. The important message is that there can be no free lunch. It is living off of someones else's production. And as more climb on, it becomes an economically impossible feat. The parasite overwhelms the host.


When interest rates begin to rise, they always do, and because the debt is so large, the interest paid will overwhelm the ability to pay, a default must occur. Our government, because they will not admit failure, will choose to default in another way. They will print the money to meet the obligations which leads to and even more catastrophic consequence, the failure of the dollar and total collapse. P.A. Meyers is correct.