Cannon from the USS Hartford

[lthardman]

These three nine inch Dahlgrens now reside in Mackinaw City, Michigan.  The data on them says they each weigh 9300 pounds, were made in 1863, and you can see the proof stamp and the inspector's initials.  The historical sign nearby said that the USS Hartford, a sail and steam ship of Civil War fame, was equipped with 20 of these beauties.  It was Admiral Farragut's flag ship in the Battle of Mobile Bay.  Maybe these have been pictured before, but I don't recall seeing them. 
 

 

 

 

 

[KABAR2]

I don't remember anyone posting these before this,  I wish who ever is in charge of the monument would take better care of things rather then let them rust.....

[lthardman]

I fully agree, KABAR2.  I sent an e-mail to the Mackinaw City government officials on their web site and chewed on them a little.  I hope they take some action.  And I hope that action is more than just slapping a little paint on them. 

[GGaskill]

Yeah, they should display the guns with the barrels down or with a tompion so they don't collect water inside.

[cannonmn]

For years I tried to buy a 9" Dahlgren with HARTFORD provenance, and the owner kept telling me he'd call me when he got ready to sell.  About the fifth year I called him, he told me it was gone, but the buyer didn't want anyone to know who got it.  Turned out it was a "friend" of mine, who was fully advised that I had been trying to get it, and that the owner had promised it to me, but money talks, and it pays to know who your friends are, and aren't.  But I've been able to buy my share of cannons, so honestly I can't feel very sorry for myself, can I?
Maybe someday I'll take a photo of one of my cannon filing cabinets and post it.

[Max Caliber]

Here is a model of the Hartford.


Here is a full scale mock-up of a section of the Hartford. Located at the National Civil War Naval Museum at Port Columbus, Georgia.

[Cannoneer]

Ithardman,

Any day that I get to look at Dahlgren shell guns, is made better because of the chance to look; so thanks for the pics! I haven't seen these before either.

Good photos, Max; thanks for posting them.

[cannonmn]

But even though I missed that 9 in. Dahlgren from HARTFORD, I did manage to purchase the original model of the 9 in. Dahlgren tube, made by John A. Dahlgren himself, and I'd rather have that than one of the big ones.

[seacoastartillery]

     Thank you very much for posting this trio, Ithardman.  It's really hard to believe, but there lie three of the most popular naval guns of all time which were produced in greater numbers than even the 12 Pdr. Napoleon! We agree with you guys on the condition but we all have to remember that Mackinaw City has some of the harshest weather in the entire United States.  Google map it; it's right across the water from St. Ignace and Sault Ste Marie in Canada, award winning LOW temp locations in North America!
 
      Here's something that Mike and I always try to figure out.  Who was Naval Ordnance Inspector, J. M. B.?  He was John M. Berrien who worked almost exclusively at  F.P.F., (Fort Pitt Foundry) in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania from 1862 - 1864.  All three of these Dahlgren Shell Guns were cast in 1863, making them available for service on the U.S. Frigate,  Hartford, Admiral Farragut's flagship for the forced passage past the Rebel Forts, Morgan and Gaines at the Battle of Mobile Bay on 5 August 1864.  Another IX-Inch Dahlgren inspected by John Berrien was there too aboard the Frigate Brooklyn which led the Van that day because she had four chase guns mounted in her bow rather than the normal two. 
 
     Today, this gun is on display, mounted at the Dahlgren Surface Naval Warfare Center, south of Washington, DC in Dahlgren, Virginia.  It keeps pretty exclusive company there with the Dahlgren gun aboard the Merrimac (CSS Virginia), which had about a third of it's chase blown off during the Battle of Hampton Roads on 8 March 1862 when it rammed the Federal ship, Cumberland and received a broadside for it's trouble.  Midshipman Marmaduke, and several others were wounded and one sailor was killed.  In spite of the extensive gun damage, the crew continued to serve that gun although it repeatedly set fire to the wood inside the armor plates!  Markings include 1859 on the right trunnion and P over G.M. on the left trunnion.  Naval Ordnance Inspector G.M. is George Minor who worked very closely with Lt. John M. Brooke, CSN when Brooke was designing the CSS Virginia and Brooke rifles for her. On the barrel is "T F No 277 9164 lbs" ["T F" is the Tredegar Foundry]  This was Trophy #1 at the Washington Navy Yard for years and moved to Dahlgren, VA in 1960.
 
 Thanks Ithardman, excellent pics!
 
 Tracy and Mike 

[cannonmn]

moved to Dahlgren, VA in 1960.
 

Anyone seen it recently?  Some folks in the Navy told me it had moved to a museum (?) in Fredericksburg VA maybe 5 years ago. 

[seacoastartillery]

     Cannonmn,  Notes in my big nootebook of all things Dahlgren have, in a 2006 entry, that it was moved to the Fredericksburg Area Museum in September of 2003 and resided there until September of 2006.  I know it's dangerous to assume anything, so I won't say that I know for sure where it is today. 

Tracy

[The Jeff]

It keeps pretty exclusive company there with the Dahlgren gun aboard the Merrimac (CSS Virginia), which had about a third of it's chase blown off during the Battle of Hampton Roads on 8 March 1862 when it rammed the Federal ship, Cumberland and received a broadside for it's trouble.

Are you referring to the gun attached below? If so it's now at the Mariner's Museum in Newport News. For a while I believe it was up in Fredericksburg.





As best I've been able to tell, my great great grandfather served on the Dahlgren next to this one on the Virginia.

[seacoastartillery]

     Thank you Jeff, that is useful information.  Mike and I already had planned to explore Maryland, Virginia, the Mariner's Museum again and the Smithsonian next fall.  We will watch for it; looks like it would be hard to miss.

Tracy

[Cannoneer]

But even though I missed that 9 in. Dahlgren from HARTFORD, I did manage to purchase the original model of the 9 in. Dahlgren tube, made by John A. Dahlgren himself, and I'd rather have that than one of the big ones.

Cannonmn,
Are you referring to a scale model of Dahlgren’s IX-inch gun design made before production began?
Do you mean that J. Dahlgren fashioned the model with his own hands, or that he had craftsmen make the model to his specifications?
Have you ever posted photos of this model here before?

[cannonmn]

 
 
 

Cannonmn,
Are you referring to a scale model of Dahlgren’s IX-inch gun design made before production began?
Do you mean that J. Dahlgren fashioned the model with his own hands, or that he had craftsmen make the model to his specifications?
Have you ever posted photos of this model here before?

Sorry can't recall if I posted it here or not, perhaps I posted it elsewhere and was on vacation from here then, not sure.   But I will let JAD do the talking, here are two pages from his design notebook, now in the Lib. of Congress' Dahlgren Papers collection.   I have about a dozen photos of other pertinent pages from the notebook and will post if you like.  I own the model described, which is marked "No. 2."  That isn't a serial number but refers to the basic designs of which there were two, as shown on the cover of his notebook.  No. 1 was same basic shape but the adjoining basic geometric shapes forming the gun were not "faired" or radiused together as they were in No. 2.  This first design is shown in the Dahlgren chapter of THE BIG GUNS.  I'd like that model also and have let it be known that a substantial reward awaits the finder.  It would of course be marked "No. 1."   I think the notebook was put together in March 1853.  Dahlgren was very concerned about the exact preponderance of the full-sized weapon, and as far as I can tell, had the model made basically as a check the preponderance.  He weighed the model in water and in air to check the specific gravity of the iron in it.
 
I can't seem to find my photos of the actual model which is in a bank vault, and I don't have time right now to go there and take more photos so I hope I can find my others.  I know I posted them on some discussion board, but can't even find the photobucket album for them today, unfortunately.
 

[cannonmn]

Sorry these aren't the best pictures, but you get the idea and should be able to read the marks.  I found it interesting that everywhere else you look, the Navy designates the shellgun size with Roman numerals in inches.  This model is marked "9 IN. SHELL GUN No. 2"  Perhaps this was made before that convention was adopted?  Dunno.
 

[Zulu]

cannonmn,
Really nice!
It looks like the vent hole is clogged.  I totally understand about not trying to restore anything like this, but shouldn't the vent hole be cleared?
Zulu

[GGaskill]

Is the breech a separate screw in part (wondering about what looks like a seam or joint in the next to the last two pix)?

[seacoastartillery]

Is the breech a separate screw in part (wondering about what looks like a seam or joint in the next to the last two pix)?

     First of all we are extremely happy to see these pics, Cannonmn.  Thank you.  What a wonderful piece for your collection.  Although we all will have to wait for a definitive ans. from John, Mike and I would like to shed some light on similar lines on Dahlgren Guns and Rodman Guns which we have studied in different parts of our United States.  Explanation is by caption below.

Mike and Tracy


Mike searches the vast surface of a 15" Rodman Gun for markings or significant machine marks at Fort Knox in the granite state.




He points to one of five or six concentric grooves that he found, mostly on or near the hemispherical breech.  We had quite a discussion with Victor3 about the origin of these grooves during one of our "Where is it?  What is it?" contests back in 2007, I believe.  What we learned from 3 or 4 different sources was that these were marks put there to delineate between lathe form-tool elements used to machine the complex faired and blended curves present on the drawing for these cannon.




Mike leans on the breech of a large 11" Dahlgren Shell Gun we found in Exeter, New Hampshire in 2007.  Similar grooves show up here as well.




The Exeter gun has grooves in several places, but the one around the breech is deepest an coincides with the two vents and a line of character markings.  Before you jump in with assumptions, I must mention that neither of the two IX-Inch Dahlgrens on the Campus of Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut  have their markings along the breech groove. 




The other side of the Exeter Gun.




The Exeter Gun displays a groove just forward of the Naval Anchor impression stamp marking and one about 12" forward of that one.




Here I point to a groove on a 10-Inch Rodman Gun in front of the Connecticut state Armory in Hartford, CT.  There is another about 4-5 inches to this one's right.

[cannonmn]

As far as I could tell, the vent does not exist, there' only the slight depression you see to mark the spot.  I will check it again next time I get access to it, but that's what I came away with last time I looked at it.
 
There is a scribe mark all the way around the breech, and that's all it is.  I think it is there because Dahlgren had to make precise measurements from one point to the next to make his calculations, and he needed that scribe mark on the surface of the model to make some measurements.   I'm guessing further, looking at Dahlgren's notbook page 11, reproduced above, that this scribe mark coincides with the location of the "Base Ring," a critical reference point for J.A. Dahlgren's calculation method.  Again, there are several more pages of calculations available if you're curious.

[bluelake]

I've been away a while, so I just saw this thread.  A year ago, I put up a thread that featured a Dahlgren 9-inch off the Hartford in my hometown of Petoskey, MI (Just a hop, skip and jump from Mackinaw City)  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,234366.msg1099317659.html#msg1099317659 
 
 
 

[GGaskill]

That gun looks like a Krupp.



Like this one.

[Cannoneer]

I don't remember anyone posting these before this,  I wish who ever is in charge of the monument would take better care of things rather then let them rust.....

I fully agree, KABAR2.  I sent an e-mail to the Mackinaw City government officials on their web site and chewed on them a little.  I hope they take some action.  And I hope that action is more than just slapping a little paint on them.

Yeah, they should display the guns with the barrels down or with a tompion so they don't collect water inside.

It appears like some kind of abrasive method has recently been used to remove rust from the barrels; you can even see how the attempt evidently became more difficult on the bottom side. No matter how this task was accomplished, I would think that it took more than a slight effort, so you'd think that it would be followed up with a few coats of protective paint. It also doesn't make much sense that the carriage was totally ignored.
Ithardman; have you gotten any kind of a response from the folks that you emailed?


George; while it can't be known from these photos, in many instances outdoor display barrel's bores are blocked a short distance down from the muzzle.