First time hand loading .45-70...

[evan1395]

I just bought my first gun, a H&R Handi Rifle .45-70 and i'd like to reload my own rounds.Ok, so here is my list of materials. Please give me some feedback on what ya think.

Powder:
H1498 Smokeless. I am going to call around locally and see who has some.

Cases:
Hornaday Brass (Box of 50 is like $44 from midway)

Bullets:
This is the item i was skeptical on. I still don't know why these are so cheap? Anyone know? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/796...ose-box-of-250

But they seem like a good deal. Is 405gr a good load to fire through the handi rifle?

Primers:
Winchester "Long Rifle" primers off of Amazon. I already bought a classic lee reloader.

So how's the setup look guys? I still need to know how much powder to load up. I am going to buy a scale sometime after I get all my stuff. But i looked EVERYWHERE for the ammount of powder for a .45-70 shooting a 405 gr bullet. The closest ammount i found was like, 31gr or something? Does that sound right?
Not sure if I even read the chart right.

[flashhole]

This may help you.  http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/49
 I did not like H4198 (I think you have a typo) in the 45-70.  There are much better powders.
Do not buy Hornady brass if it is the Lever-revolution or whatever they call it.  It is much shorter than standard 45-70 brass. 
Do more research on loads.  Do you have a reloading manual?  If yes, have you studied it? 
 

[twoshooter]

+1 on the manual. I recommend the Lyman because it contains all brands of bullets as well as cast loads, not just Mfgr's info, and gives a broader range of loads, as well as pressure of most loads. READ CAREFULLY FIRST. Repeat-----FIRST. Then try loading.

I use a lot of IMR 4198, but not H. With a 405 gr bullet 29 to 33gr  of IMR 4198 will work fine , especially until you get some experience under your belt. Rx7, that is Reloader 7 mfg by Alliant powders is also a very good choice for a broad range of loads.

Jacketed bullets from 300 to 400 gr are standard, and cast from 340 up to about 450 gr are very common and widely used. Best of luck.

[jhalcott]

 A couple manuals AND a scale are the first things you need! How will you know how much powder is being dropped in the case?! I'm another guy that uses other powders than 4198 in the 45-70. Those bullets are cast ,so are cheaper than Jacketed. You may find some even cheaper with out the silver content. Casting your own can be even less expensive if you don't count time and equipment
     http://www.carrollsweb.com/gunshop/html/midstates_cast_bullets.html
  I have NOT used these as I cast my own, but a simple search found about 5 sites!

[charles p]

Among my early handloading mistakes was by quest to achieve max velocity.  Do not repeat my mistakes.  Your best groups will likely be at slightly lower velocities and you and your equipment will fair much better.  Game animals will never know the difference.  You have more than enough gun to kill anything in the lower 48.

[evan1395]

Guys at this point in time, all this is seeming SO overwhelming. i bought a classic Lee Reloader...thats it -.- I really dig those cast bullets I found in 405gr.
Personally what would YOU guys use if you were me, I'd like to stick with those bullets, so can you all give me some info on some materials that are applicable with that style cast bullet?
Im so lost right now it isn't funny. Im gonna have to pick up a reloading manual.

[spooked]

Hogdon (sp) has online info also , get a good manual also.. I got the Lee and am gonna get the Lyman also...I have a friend that reloads so I got some pointers there also

[evan1395]

I just canceled my order for the Lee Reloader. I feel that im getting in over my head. I need to do some more research before I start dumping money into something I know nothing about. I appreciate all your help/info guys. Look forward to a future posting when i decide to start reloading.
By the way I bought these rounds as my first box of ammo. They have AWESOME reviews. Are these going to be already in my Handi?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-906
 
 

[tacklebury]

Personally I would never use Hornady .45-70 brass as it's shorter than std. as it's made to use with their Leverevolution bullets and stay the same COL as flat point bullets.  I like Starline and Winchester.  Never had to replace or had a single failure on either type... 

[evan1395]

Well im not gonna reload as of right now, i'm taking it slow XD
What about the rounds in the previous link? Fair bullets? Anyone know where to get a scope mount for the handi? I bought a Pantex Gameseeker III Scope.
 
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/pentax-gameseeker-3-9x50-mm-scope.aspx?a=616315

[sr sawyer]

Best advice so far is to get a reloading manual.  Like a previous post, I would strongly suggest the Lyman as they do not supply component products and their manual is very thorough and informative. 
 
Many of the questions you have about reloading will be answered in the Lyman manual.  After that the GBO site is full of info to help new and old reloaders.
 
Ken
 
 
 
 

[keith44]

Hi evan1395,


I have been reloading for 25+ years now.


I read somewhere that the 45-70 is one of the most forgiving to load for.  The Handi rifle will safely handle loads in both the trap door pressure range as well as the lever action pressure range.  I use IMR 3031 with 300, 405, and 500 grain cast bullets, and 300 grain jacketed hollow points.


Lyman is one of the best first loading manuals you could own, get one.  I recommend also supplementing the Lyman manual with one of these:


http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Reloading-Manual-45-70-Govt/dp/B004JOGNQS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345700892&sr=8-2&keywords=complete+reloading+manual+for+45-70


There is load data from bullet manufacturers, powder manufacturers, and a couple of casting mould manufacturers.


As for those bullets, it depends on what you want to shoot with them.  The Handi will handle them with any sane load, but their effect on thin skinned game, like whitetail deer, will be under whelming.  I placed 6 of those (in a span of 5 minutes) through the chest of an 8 point with no telling effect, except for a blood trail.  Postmortum showed two holes through the heart and the other 4 passed through both lungs.  All exited and there was no sign of expansion.  The deer expired after traveling 150 yards.  He was in sight when he slowed to a walk and simply laid down.  For something thicker skinned, or larger than a deer they may do the trick.

[LONGTOM]

I have been shooting the 45-70 for over 15 years and my buddy close to 20 years.
We have never used anything but 300gr HP bullets in our loads.
To date between the two of us we have taken 169 deer with the 45-70 at ranges from 10' to as far as 350 yds.
All but three were one shot kills.
Most were either head shots on the close ones or through the shoulders on the longer distances.
We have only recovered one bullet over the years and that was on a quartering away shot at a tad over 150 yds.
It's impact was just at the rear rib (breaking it) and through the chest cavity on an upward angle (deer was on a ridge above us) and was recovered about 1/2 way up the neck line lodged in the neck bone.
We have lost three deer over the years using this bullet.
One was at close range of about 70 yds that the bullet hit a small sapling and angled down and through the front leg.
The deer was killed by my neighbour two or three days latter with minor damage to the front leg.
The second one was a high cut across the top of the neck.
The deer was seen many times through out the rest of the season.
He was killed by the same person latter in the late MZ season with a healed neck wound.
The last one lost was the very first deer I ever shot at with a 45-70 in my Winchester 1886 takedown rifle.
The factory sights at 150 yds covered up almost 1/2 of the deer.
I cut him low across the front of the chest with only a little hair and a single drop of blood.
He was killed on the next farm by a friend less than 10 minutes after I shot him.
The sights have been changed on my 86 and has proven itself many times since!
I know a lot of shooters that use the lead 405s with great results but we have never shot a deer with them.
Just never saw the need.
The open fields we hunt the most in lends it self quite well to the flatter trajectory of the faster, lighter bullets with less hold over at the longer distances.
I have tried many powders over the years and have several that work well for me.
My buddy loads almost everything with IMR 3031.
Who knows how much 3031 he has used over the years!
May not be the top choice but his guns seem to like it.
Just our experiences with the 300gr HPs in the 45-70.
 
 
 
LONGTOM
 

[stimpylu32]

Well im not gonna reload as of right now, i'm taking it slow XD
What about the rounds in the previous link? Fair bullets? Anyone know where to get a scope mount for the handi? I bought a Pantex Gameseeker III Scope.
 
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/pentax-gameseeker-3-9x50-mm-scope.aspx?a=616315

Evan
 
Those rounds will be just fine in your Handi , as for a scope mount the Weaver 82 will fit and you will need to get the Tall or even the X-tall rings to allow for enough clearance of the hammer . personaly I like the X-tall rings as they set the scope higher to fit my fat head . 
 
stimpy
 
PS - Check the " Stickys " at the top of this forum , there is a ton of info that will help awnser your ??'s about loading your own ammo . 

[evan1395]

Those bullets I bought, would they penetrate a bears skull anything under 100 yards? I JUST recieved them form Fedex, man .45-70 rounds are HUGE . Cannot wait to get my gun on the 28th.
I saw these 1" rings....
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/586771/simmons-1-weaver-style-rings-matte-high
 
And This Mount...
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/882678/ironsighter-1-piece-weaver-style-scope-base-h-and-r-ultra-nef-handi-rifle-matte
 
Does that look like it'll do it? or would you suggest bigger rings with a 50mm scope?

[stimpylu32]

Personally those rings are a little on the CHEAP side for my taste and I doubt that they would hold up very long under 45/70 recoil , as for BEAR rounds I'd need to know the type & size of bear your planning to shoot .
 
stimpy

[cwlongshot]

+1 on the manual. I recommend the Lyman because it contains all brands of bullets as well as cast loads, not just Mfgr's info, and gives a broader range of loads, as well as pressure of most loads. READ CAREFULLY FIRST. Repeat-----FIRST. Then try loading.

I use a lot of IMR 4198, but not H.  IMR 4198 will work fine , especially until you get some experience under your belt. Rx7, that is Reloader 7 mfg by Alliant powders is also a very good choice for a broad range of loads.

I agree 100%!!!  BUY A MANUEL FIRST!!!!!

Personally I would never use Hornady .45-70 brass as it's shorter than std. as it's made to use with their Leverevolution bullets and stay the same COL as flat point bullets.  I like Starline

I recomend you buy a couple boxes of factory ammo while you read up on loading. You can keep the cases for later loading. Just avoid Hornady Lever evolution, UNLESS you plan on loading the 325g Lever evolution bullets, of coarse.

Personaly those rings are a little on the CHEAP side for my taste. 

I agree with stimpy as well! These rings are about the cheapest avalible, you have mentioned bears a couple times... as well as shooting thru a bears head... If you are even thinking of using this in a defensive role, I would not be looking at the "cheapest anything" to be used to defend my life... Just saying. You also do not need to spend a fortune, but 30-50 is gonna be the price tag..
 
Try these most of us love them: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/612622/burris-1-signature-zee-weaver-style-rings-matte-high

Good luck,
 CW
   

[evan1395]

haha cwlongshot, i'm just using the bear thing for reference. I want to make sure i'm not buying a poor load. A 405gr at 1400fps with a rounded flat nose would damage a bear correct?
 
Those rings you had reccomended, the 1" should fit my 50mm scope? They will hold up through the recoil of the .45-70? Most of all, they will give me enough thumb room for the hammer?

[evan1395]

Personally those rings are a little on the CHEAP side for my taste and I doubt that they would hold up very long under 45/70 recoil , as for BEAR rounds I'd need to know the type & size of bear your planning to shoot .
 
stimpy

I have yet to see one around here that exceeds 5-600lbs.

[cwlongshot]

haha cwlongshot, i'm just using the bear thing for reference. I want to make sure i'm not buying a poor load. A 405gr at 1400fps with a rounded flat nose would damage a bear correct?
 
Those rings you had reccomended, the 1" should fit my 50mm scope? They will hold up through the recoil of the .45-70? Most of all, they will give me enough thumb room for the hammer?

Ha rectum.. damn near killed em!  LOL  if you put it where it should go, within range limitations, YES, a 405g 45-70 bullet will kill any bear that walks the earth.

I can not say with 100% certainty about clearance as I haven't mounted such large a large objective. I think that they will yes. BUT, yes these rings will hold up to any shoulder fired caliber.

CW

[evan1395]

 
Alrighty man, thank ya !

[keith44]

That 405gr bullet at 1,400fps is what I shot through every deer I ever launched it at.  A bears skull at 100 yards or less would be penetrated.

[evan1395]

That 405gr bullet at 1,400fps is what I shot through every deer I ever launched it at.  A bears skull at 100 yards or less would be penetrated.

Love hearing that man XD Good to know !

[45-70.gov]

safety glasses when loading!!

[tacklebury]

I always put on safety glasses for priming cases, most especially.  When using the bang - n - tap style classic loaders I wore them all the time.  Saved my eyes on two occasions or at least I had scratches in the lenses so it saved me from a close call at least.  Even using the Lee Autoprime now, I still wear them during priming.

[45-70.gov]

that lee with the hammer press is what i started with over 30 years ago
a 44 mag.....it comes with a scoop and instructions..thats how i chose my powder first time



it now sits on display in my reloading room


be very carefull this stuff is very addictive

[evan1395]

that lee with the hammer press is what i started with over 30 years ago
a 44 mag.....it comes with a scoop and instructions..thats how i chose my powder first time



it now sits on display in my reloading room


be very carefull this stuff is very addictive

I know, i'm already trying to buy every Handi Rifle accessory I can find. It's like Cocaine without the side effects. I'm diggin it. Currently i am trying to find nice 1" scope rings for this scope plate...
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/882678/ironsighter-1-piece-weaver-style-scope-base-h-and-r-ultra-nef-handi-rifle-matte
 
I need rings that will hold up with the .45-70 recoil. Preferably Extra high ! Willing to spend $50.00 or so.
 

[GH1]

I too have a Handi in .45-70 that I load for, it's a good shooter. It's light weight makes it a little uncomfortable for extended shooting sessions at the range, but it's great to carry in the field all day.  I have to echo what's already been posted, get the Lyman 49th Manual. I use it more than my other three manuals combined. I shoot 405 gr cast bullets on top of 30 gr AA5744, gives me velocities in the low-mid 13's, according to the folks at Accurate.
The .45-70 is a joy to load for, lotsa components and data available. Loads range from mild plinkers with little or no recoil to  shoulder bruising heavyweights that'll make you cry Uncle.
Being pretty much a straight walled cartridge, you don't have to worry about neck stretching and case trimming.
If you do decide to get into reloading, don't be surprised if you get as much enjoyment out of that as you doo shooting. I find reloading to be a relaxing, rewarding hobby and hopefully you will also.
GH1

[45-70.gov]

http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/instructions/Rifle_Lee_Loader.pdf


the instructions will tell you what powder to use in this scoop


you won't have much versatility with this set up....but still better than  buying whole cartridges


but then it is idiot proof......[beginner prof]


just be carefull and go slow......and read,read  then read some more


take a look at the red-dots.....particularly the bushnell trs-25
eye releif is  irrelevant so you set ahead of hammer....low built in mounts for a better stock fit
i hate high rings ...especially those look under ring for the iron sights....poor gun fit!!

[wileynet]

i agree with the lee loader, in expensive way to get started, 40 years ago i wanted to start reloading had watched my dad use a rock chucker, so i asked for one for Christmas, wound up with a lee loader for my 30-30 and 12 ga, after i mastered those i got press from him 2 years later, when all three of my kids got their first rifles i included lee loaders, my daughter loads her 9mm, and 243 exclusively with them 14 years later, my boys are as addicted as i am and have multiple presses, but close to deer season they load there rounds with there old lee loaders