Author Topic: Is Chevy Volt a goner?  (Read 2393 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2012, 03:28:05 PM »
The information I read is that one reason Germany went to diesel is because they import almost all their oil.  The article I read was that you can get 20 gallons of gas per gallon of crude but can get 27 gallons of diesel per barrel of crude.  That is almost 1/3 more fuel per barrel, couple that with about a 30% increase in mileage of diesel over gasoline, and Germany cut their imports in half the last 20-30 years.  We could do the same.  Also, we do not import natural gas.  Natural gas for fleet use, diesel for others and we can start cutting imports.  Being in the natural gas industry, we are having trouble trying to get the gas service stations to install refueling compressors.  We do not need to be using ethynol.  We need to feed our animals for our food.
 
Electrics will come, and yes, Afganistan has a lot of lithium.  China is already trying to buy the controlling interest in them, like they did in Bolivia. 

Offline Conan The Librarian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4494
  • McDonalds. Blecch!
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #61 on: September 02, 2012, 05:23:46 PM »
I had no idea there was that much difference between gas vs diesel per barrel. How do I learn more about that? That's enormous.

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #62 on: September 02, 2012, 10:12:33 PM »
I read that in either Car and Driver or Road and Track magazine when I was at the doctors office one day a year or two ago.  The article was talking about the law passed to get mileage up.  It talked about Germany's diesel push.  Right now, so much gasoline, diesel, kerosene, fuel oil, and other oils are refined out of a barrel.  Diesel, kerosene, and fuel oil are almost the same.  Diesel is considered K2 while kerosene and fuel oil are K1 oils.  Gasoline is broken down further than the heavier oils.  They said by not breaking it down as far they can make more diesel per gallon of crude than gasoline. 
 
However because of the recent law to get mileage up, even kerosene has to be 10% vegetable oil like gasoline has to be 10% ethynol.  Both are making our food cost rise.  Only 10% of corn is used for human consumption, while 90% is used as feed stock for cattle, hogs, and chickens.  By diverting corn to make ethynol, it directly causes the animals we eat to go up in price, also affects eggs, milk, cheese costs.  Soybean oil is used to blend with diesel (10%) right now.  Of course soy is used in a lot of things, like oils, margerine, soy protein, dog and cat food, etc.
 
Like I said, we do not need to be burning our food for fuel.  We have an 800 year supply of coal and we could make synthetic diesel fuel from coal.  We have a 200 year supply of oil that is on government lands that are off limits to drilling.  We have stopped drilling offshore since the BP spill.  We have oil and natural gas in Alaska that we aren't allowed to get to.  We can't even install a natural gas pipeline parallel to the Alaska highway.  After installation the animals aren't going to know there is a gas pipeline under them, the highway is more dangerous to them. 
 
Alternative fuels are ok IF we had more farmland available to make it.  Then there is the issue of droughts, floods, bad weather.  Hydrogen is made from natural gas, not water, since it is much cheaper to make it from natural gas.  So why not just used the natural gas?  Electric vehiles are just not there yet, expensive batteries, excessive charge time.  If all vehicles were electric, we would need about 20% more electrical production capacity.  Flywheel hybrids can be made for less than the lithium batteries, but only increase mileage about 20% vs 30% for battery hybrids.  However it is a cheaper incremental start.  Diesels are also a cheaper step up in mileage. 
 
Imported oil is half our trade deficit.  If we can produce our own fuel, by more drilling, pipeline construction, or making synthetic diesel from coal we could cut half that trade deficit and put between 1-2 million people to work.  By streamlining government regulations on small business, and reducing their taxes we can put between 2-4 million back to work.  Same with large manufacturers, another several million.  Believe me, regulations have doubled in the gas industry in the last 4 years.  I have to spend 20-30% of my time just doing government required paperwork.  That is stupid.  That is what lawsuits were for, if someone screwed up doing their business.  Regulations weren't required, just common sense. 

Offline Conan The Librarian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4494
  • McDonalds. Blecch!
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2012, 01:14:03 AM »

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2012, 03:05:09 PM »
I didn't know that about the difference in European and American refineries.  If we go diesel in a massive way, we would have to change our refineries.  Hmmm,  maybe making synthetic diesel from coal would be the solution.  Natural gas is the way to go for fleets. 

Offline Conan The Librarian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4494
  • McDonalds. Blecch!
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2012, 03:15:35 PM »
I read some other articles about how they can make diesel out of natural gas, although i don't see the point of doing that. Another article said that demand for gas in the US has declined but demand for diesel is up, so there already have been changes to some degree, and it has been significant.




Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2012, 04:13:06 AM »
The upper surface of sea water contains more carbon dioxide than the air.  Something like 6% vs 3% for air.  The navy has been experimenting with making jet fuel with the excess electricity off the nuclear power of an aircraft carrier.  Aircraft carriers have from 2-8 small reactors.  They only need about half of them for full power at any one time.  Extras are for redundency and backup.  They can take carbon dioxde and crack out the carbon, then take sea water and crack out the hydrogen.  Then they force the hydrogen an carbon together to make natural gas (CH4).  From there, they can keep adding carbon and hydrogen to build the chain molecules to make almost any hydrocarbon, diesel, jet fuel, etc.  It is expensive, but they have extra power not being used on the aircraft carriers.  If this works out, an aircraft carrier can be completely independent for about 20 years, except for food.  They are fueled for 20 years service life without having to refuel the new reactors.  They already desalinate the water for fresh water use shipboard.  All subs and aircraft carriers are nukes, same with crusiers.  Not sure about destroyers and frigates. 
 
 
Here is the article.
 
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17632-how-to-turn-seawater-into-jet-fuel.html
 
 
It is energy extensive, but not impossible.  Synthetic natural gas from coal was made in the late 1800's and actually used in the natural gas systems around the country.  It can be done again.  However traditional sources from drilling and fracking have been more cost effective, and it was cleaner.  Coal gas contained a lot of soot that wasn't filtered out. 

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2012, 12:28:25 PM »
Yep, it's a gonner if efficency and innovation are allowed to rule and prosper. The government can always make it artifically successfull. ear
-
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big-abc-news/kit-turns-car-hybrid-170717691.html
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline Conan The Librarian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4494
  • McDonalds. Blecch!
Re: Is Chevy Volt a goner?
« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2012, 02:53:42 PM »
Blind Ear,
That is really, really cool!!! Thanks!


I'll bet you could do it with a 59 Caddie!