Author Topic: How Romney did it.  (Read 1516 times)

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Offline rio grande

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How Romney did it.
« on: August 30, 2012, 05:12:36 AM »
Made his millions, that is. Good article from Rolling Stone. An economics lesson in plain language.  Here's a part of it.
(I don't know how your computer works, but I had to choose R/S's  print icon to see the whole text.)

"Here's how Romney would go about "liberating" a company: A private equity firm like Bain typically seeks out floundering businesses with good cash flows. It then puts down a relatively small amount of its own money and runs to a big bank like Goldman Sachs or Citigroup for the rest of the financing. (Most leveraged buyouts are financed with 60 to 90 percent borrowed cash.) The takeover firm then uses that borrowed money to buy a controlling stake in the target company, either with or without its consent. When an LBO is done without the consent of the target, it's called a hostile takeover; such thrilling acts of corporate piracy were made legend in the Eighties, most notably the 1988 attack by notorious corporate raiders Kohlberg Kravis Roberts against RJR Nabisco, a deal memorialized in the book Barbarians at the Gate.
Romney and Bain avoided the hostile approach, preferring to secure the cooperation of their takeover targets by buying off a company's management with lucrative bonuses. Once management is on board, the rest is just math. So if the target company is worth $500 million, Bain might put down $20 million of its own cash, then borrow $350 million from an investment bank to take over a controlling stake.
But here's the catch. When Bain borrows all of that money from the bank, it's the target company that ends up on the hook for all of the debt.
Now your troubled firm – let's say you make tricycles in Alabama – has been taken over by a bunch of slick Wall Street dudes who kicked in as little as five percent as a down payment. So in addition to whatever problems you had before, Tricycle Inc. now owes Goldman or Citigroup $350 million. With all that new debt service to pay, the company's bottom line is suddenly untenable: You almost have to start firing people immediately just to get your costs down to a manageable level.
"That interest," says Lynn Turner, former chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission, "just sucks the profit out of the company."
Fortunately, the geniuses at Bain who now run the place are there to help tell you whom to fire. And for the service it performs cutting your company's costs to help you pay off the massive debt that it, Bain, saddled your company with in the first place, Bain naturally charges a management fee, typically millions of dollars a year. So Tricycle Inc. now has two gigantic new burdens it never had before Bain Capital stepped into the picture: tens of millions in annual debt service, and millions more in "management fees." Since the initial acquisition of Tricycle Inc. was probably greased by promising the company's upper management lucrative bonuses, all that pain inevitably comes out of just one place: the benefits and payroll of the hourly workforce.
Once all that debt is added, one of two things can happen. The company can fire workers and slash benefits to pay off all its new obligations to Goldman Sachs and Bain, leaving it ripe to be resold by Bain at a huge profit. Or it can go bankrupt – this happens after about seven percent of all private equity buyouts – leaving behind one or more shuttered factory towns. Either way, Bain wins. By power-sucking cash value from even the most rapidly dying firms, private equity raiders like Bain almost always get their cash out before a target goes belly up."
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829?print=true

Offline tobster

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 03:25:57 AM »
If we aren't careful he might mortgage  our future to a country that doesn't have our best interest in mind, like China, funnel the cash to a business owned by his cronies that is about to fail, like Solyndra, and leave the American taxpayers on the hook for millions while the investors walk away with the cash. ( less a few bucks they "re-invest" in campaign donations)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 03:44:09 AM »
Take a look at who holds our debt now . I don't think he can sell off something already held by others .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline tobster

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 04:07:20 AM »
So much for my attempt at sarcasm..............

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 04:22:32 AM »
    It boils down to this... our choice is between the competent, capable, honest, morally straight and trust worthy Romney...and the devious, shifty, jump-shot, beer-drinking-in-the-rose-garden...maybe Kenyan..
 
   We learned more about Romney, his values, his principles, his competency and origins in a few minutes last night...than we have learned about Obama in the last 5 years..
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BTW:  Anyone expecting any form of honest, genuine journalism from Rolling Stone..must be smoking something..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline magooch

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 04:35:06 AM »
Corporate takeovers are nothing new and they are perfectly legal--though often slimy.  It usually is a result of poor fiscal management on the part of the corporate victim. 
 
The company that I spent my working time with, was taken over by a Canadian outfit that is still running the place, but everyone knows it's for sale.  All they really wanted were some of the assets.  In this case, the key to the whole thing was that the stock value fell significantly below the actual value of the company. 
 
 
Swingem

Offline rio grande

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 05:01:17 AM »
    It boils down to this... our choice is between the competent, capable, honest, morally straight and trust worthy Romney...and the devious, shifty, jump-shot, beer-drinking-in-the-rose-garden...maybe Kenyan..
 
   We learned more about Romney, his values, his principles, his competency and origins in a few minutes last night...than we have learned about Obama in the last 5 years..
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
BTW:  Anyone expecting any form of honest, genuine journalism from Rolling Stone..must be smoking something..

ironglow, any pathological liar can stand up and deliver a speech in which he says and promises all kinds of wonderful things.
What's that prove?
 The Rolling Stone article goes into great detail demonstrating how Romney gained his fortune through vulture capitalism, and vampire-like schemes that sucked the life blood out of companies, making millions for Romney and leaving nothing for the laid-off workers. For instance, Bain and Romney made $83 million dollars off the takeover of KB Toys,  while forcing it into bankruptcy. Employees with as much as 40 years service were laid off without a penny in severance.
Romney is competent? His 'success' with the 2002 Winter Olympics was underwitten by U.S. taxpayers to the tune of $1.5 billion dollars, and cost us an average of $625,000 per athlete - compare that to the $11,000 per athlete during the 1984 games in Los Angeles.
Romney is capable? Certainly capable at lining his own pocket, but not so much the investors in his company, whose average return on their investments was no more than could have been made 'picking stocks out of the paper at random' during the 80's and 90's, as the article details.

Did I say obama is better? Certainly not. Obama has failed America, and betrayed his own supporters.

That is the tragedy of this election.  It is also a shame that people will not bother to look behind the smiley-face mask of 'their' candidate.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 07:19:10 AM »
If people supported companies by buying their product then they would not be ripe for take over , if management made sound decisions they would not be ripe for take over and if employees produced for the pay they expected they would not be ripe for take ove in many cases. When you work for a company you get paid on payday and start over. If the indivisual finds a better job they leave so why does the company owe them more ? If you had a 40 year run with a company be glad , if they paid you on payday its even they don't owe you a thing .
If Romney has the power some think he has why would he need to be president ? it would be stepping down .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 07:37:11 AM »
    It boils down to this... our choice is between the competent, capable, honest, morally straight and trust worthy Romney...and the devious, shifty, jump-shot, beer-drinking-in-the-rose-garden...maybe Kenyan..
 
   We learned more about Romney, his values, his principles, his competency and origins in a few minutes last night...than we have learned about Obama in the last 5 years..
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
BTW:  Anyone expecting any form of honest, genuine journalism from Rolling Stone..must be smoking something..

ironglow, any pathological liar can stand up and deliver a speech in which he says and promises all kinds of wonderful things.
What's that prove? Ask Obama, he does it continually.
 The Rolling Stone article goes into great detail demonstrating how Romney gained his fortune through vulture capitalism, and vampire-like schemes that sucked the life blood out of companies, making millions for Romney and leaving nothing for the laid-off workers. For instance, Bain and Romney made $83 million dollars off the takeover of KB Toys,  while forcing it into bankruptcy. Employees with as much as 40 years service were laid off without a penny in severance... BTW:  I shall correct you misunderstanding..It's "venture" capitalism..not "vulture" capitalism..  Venture means the capitalist risks much of his OWN capital in his efforts to rescue a failing or poorly financed entity.  Vulture is the millions of people living off the taxpayer without paying their own way in the least.  Who is the candidate with more international financial transactions and business than Romney? 
Romney is competent? His 'success' with the 2002 Winter Olympics was underwitten by U.S. taxpayers to the tune of $1.5 billion dollars, and cost us an average of $625,000 per athlete - compare that to the $11,000 per athlete during the 1984 games in Los Angeles.  Figures don't lie, but liars figure...The Salt Lake City games were an incontravertable success.  He took over a failing effort, riddled with corruption and made a success out of it!
Romney is capable? Certainly capable at lining his own pocket, but not so much the investors in his company, whose average return on their investments was no more than could have been made 'picking stocks out of the paper at random' during the 80's and 90's, as the article details.   In case you are a bit delayed in news reception, i hasten to inform you that there are just two(2) people eligible to be on the ballot in november..so stop the dreaming. "Community activists" make NO money..they are parasites upon the taxpayer...and their main reason for existence is to cause trouble..that's our other choice this time around..

Did I say obama is better? Certainly not. Obama has failed America, and betrayed his own supporters.

That is the tragedy of this election.  It is also a shame that people will not bother to look behind the smiley-face mask of 'their' candidate.  So who is the candidate that has much more experience at personally running multi million dollar ventures, running a several thousand person payroll..and has dealt with foreign entities regularly?
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    By the way..I don't know what omnipotent and miraculous candidate you have in mind, but I hear tell that if you are looking for Superman..you should consult with DC comics..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Gary G

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 09:26:17 AM »
    It boils down to this... our choice is between the competent, capable, honest, morally straight and trust worthy Romney...and the devious, shifty, jump-shot, beer-drinking-in-the-rose-garden...maybe Kenyan..
 
   We learned more about Romney, his values, his principles, his competency and origins in a few minutes last night...than we have learned about Obama in the last 5 years..
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
BTW:  Anyone expecting any form of honest, genuine journalism from Rolling Stone..must be smoking something..


In politics, the best liars always rise to the top. If they told you the truth, then you would not vote for them.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 09:41:34 AM »
There were several companies that Bain took over that actually succeeded after they took over.  Why is that?  I think Burger King and Pizza Hut were two.  Some companies couldn't have been helped anyway, but some they actually did help.
 
This is from Wikipedia:
 
The firm was founded in 1984 by partners from the consulting firm Bain & Company. Since inception it has invested in or acquired hundreds of companies including AMC Entertainment, Aspen Education Group, Brookstone, Burger King, Burlington Coat Factory, Clear Channel Communications, Domino's Pizza, DoubleClick, Dunkin' Donuts, D&M Holdings, Guitar Center, Hospital Corporation of America (HCA), Sealy, The Sports Authority, Staples, , Warner Music Group and The Weather Channel.
 
All of these are still in business.  Hmmm.  So, it's not all bad is it.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2012, 09:46:19 AM »
Let me get this right.
 
You miss manage your business to the point you are near bankruptcy. Another company comes along and sees a way to change things around and make money with your miss managed company. They buy your company with or without your approval. Now they run the business as if it were their own ( WHICH IT IS ).  Soon they sell this business and do it all over again. Have I got this right?  Or did I miss something?
 
If you have miss managed your business I'm sorry but it is your fault. Likely you will be ka-poot soon enough. At that point nobody has a job.
 
Romneys job will be making money for his new company The United States of America. I don't give a rats ass if he dumps on most of the rest of the world doing so. If he can buy France cheap clean it up some and sell the carcass to China for a profit God Bless him. Squeeze all the yogurt out of Greece and give the country to Uragua for nothing Do It.
 
I Don't Care . Now is the time for America first. Touchy feely won't hurt another countries self esteem business as usual, ain't getting it. 
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 09:48:51 AM »
I liked that post !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 10:42:36 AM »



In politics, the best liars always rise to the top. If they told you the truth, then you would not vote for them.

How true! Ron Paul would be a good example of that!
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

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Offline tobster

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2012, 01:23:12 PM »
Hunter Thompson used to write quite a few articles for Rolling Stone, as well as High Times and Playboy. Just sayin'.................................

Offline ceadersavage2

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2012, 02:01:42 PM »
Empty quiver right on love it

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2012, 03:35:05 PM »



In politics, the best liars always rise to the top. If they told you the truth, then you would not vote for them.

How true! Ron Paul would be a good example of that!

Perfect example ;)
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Offline Cemo

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2012, 03:00:25 AM »
Well, Obama said it four years ago. "It's time for a change". I didn't like the last one so "It's time for a change again"!
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Offline ironglow

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2012, 03:49:35 AM »
Well, Obama said it four years ago. "It's time for a change". I didn't like the last one so "It's time for a change again"!
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  Ditto......
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2012, 04:55:19 AM »
Bain is still in business, just listed a few of the companies they own or have helped stay in business.  It's on Wikipedia. 

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2012, 05:14:18 AM »
Hunter Thompson used to write quite a few articles for Rolling Stone, as well as High Times and Playboy. Just sayin'.................................
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Rolling Stone has developed into a true journalistic powerhouse....Those Matt Tiabi articles, eg on Goldman Sachs, were terrific truth telling research which you won't find in the 'mainstream'.
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 This particular  article, "How Romney did it' and his foreign partners... details how predatory finance capitalism works...i.e. find a company susceptible to takeover via stock options and pick its bones....alot of companies they picked over weren't in need of the injection of Bain intermediary skimmers in the first place.....These guys were operating at the end of another supply side bubble breaking as opportunists of the predatory kind.  Where is Bain now that the bubble broke..?
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GaryG....
Quote
In politics, the best liars always rise to the top. If they told you the truth, then you would not vote for them.

that's pretty good.
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We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.
Aesop

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...TM7
Like the companies they bought and sold, they became irrelevant. At least the business plan that got them to the top has become irrelevant. Like it or not we live in a fluid economy. What was once the norm will not be in the future. From tilling soil to aero space manufacturing has and will continue to change. Why would you insist on continuing a product, company or manufacturing technique that is proven to be less efficient and or less desireable by the end consumer? The worn out tale of the buggy whip industry being an example here. How about the Space Shuttle? Talk about a nice vehicle, cutting edge design and performance. Can you imagine putting those miles on your Mercedes? I wonder why they were not marketed to commuters? Why were they discontinued? It is because they were no longer useful, they worked but they were no longer relevant in the world they found themselves in.
 
It happens, get over it, move on. Class warfare, jealousy, envy, I don't get it. Stop whining, go out and get your own.
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2012, 05:39:30 AM »
EQ,,,all that's well and fine and that's what happens. But Bain was a predator at the end of the last supply-side Bubble....they were skimmer financial intermediares inserting themselves in the process you decribe....any why you and I pay more for stuff than we ought to.
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..
..TM7
Was it that Wales character that said " buzzards gotta eat, same as worms" ?
 
I could easily see the same arguement being used to say they are keeping costs down. Make the process more efficient your company can compete on both quality and low price... But I know where you are coming from. One more mouth to feed in the corporate chain likely means a cost increase.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline magooch

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2012, 06:08:47 AM »
If liberals are so good at running businesses, why don't they go out there and start their own--with their own money.  I don't see where it's any more moral to take tax money to start, or "save" a business than it is for capitalists to use investor money to do it.  One is communism, the other is capitalism.  I'll take the latter and hope that business learns to manage better.  There are corporate laws that could be looked at to prevent unwarranted raids.
Swingem

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2012, 11:20:45 AM »
Are you implying they are all scoundrels? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.
 
 How about we go ahead and hate every single person who has made over  :-\ Oh let's say $94,286 in gross income for any 12 month period. Anyone who has made ( made ::) who am I kidding robbed and cheated) over $127,358  shall have all there property seized. Those who have a net worth over $250,319 shall be butchered and served to the homeless and indigent. Why in just weeks this country will be prosperous.  ::) Why, we'll be living off the fat of the land won't we.   ;)                                                                       
 
We have to choose between two of them, period. One is a scoundrel who has shown by deed he is hell bent on reinventing America in the image of socialist Europe. The other has worked for a company that at some time had nefarious dealings with the very government he would like to run. Arguments have been made these dealings were after his tenure. Lets assume they were not after, for the sake of this argument.
 
Do you want the poison pill that is guaranteed to kill you. Or will you opt for the one that will make you sick with a fairly high probability of death, though while killing you it will allow you to maintain some personnel dignity? It is rumoured many will survive and will gain antibodies as well.
 
There are planes and ships leaving America EVERY single day. If I wanted a European life style I would get on one. Millions upon millions of European REFUGEES came to this country for good reason. 
 
 
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline ironglow

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2012, 04:27:50 PM »
  Some folks truly struggle with definitions..  Romney formed Bain in order to arrange venture capital to save failing companies.
  Here is a short definition from Merriam/Webster..just so those who struggle with definitions.. can get it straight;
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     Definition of VENTURE CAPITAL   : capital (as retained corporate earnings or individual savings) invested or available for investment in the ownership element of new or fresh enterprise —called also risk capital  — venture capitalism noun  — venture capitalist noun
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Note please; Venture capital is also called "Risk Capital"..   Bain was formed to utilise venture (risk) capital to invest in already failing companies. Most of these firms did get rescued by the venture capital..but a few did fold, in spite of the infusion of venture capital.  Yes, some lost jobs..and those who invested in these firms lost their money.
   
 
  Now let's look at superman's investment strategy..  Solyndra..dead, Fiskars..dead, Sun Power..dead, Chrysler..taxpayers soaked for it, now owned by Fiat, several battery companies..dead; and untold others....
  then, GM bailed out and the stocks bought with our tax money..handed over to the unions.
 
  So, there are the facts..DUH!!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Swampman

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2012, 05:09:50 PM »
Class envy is a terrible thing.  I'm voting for Mitt no matter what.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline magooch

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 05:02:44 AM »
Yeah, okay it's all bad and it's gotten worse in the past three and a half years.  And who has been in charge? 
 
None of us here are getting our first choice, but for this country to survive, we absolutely must get rid of the communist and enough of his cohorts in the Senate to have any chance to begin to change course.  Romney may not be the best, most conservative choice we could have had, but he is so much better than Obama, there's no point in even debating it.
Swingem

Offline Swampman

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2012, 05:08:08 AM »
The Rolling Stone...what drug addicts use to line their bird cages.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 04:17:53 AM »
" How Romney did it " after all is said and done more will be said than done ! but at least he did it .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline rio grande

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Re: How Romney did it.
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2012, 05:01:13 AM »
" How Romney did it " after all is said and done more will be said than done ! but at least he did it .

At least Romney did it. 
A fine campaign slogan.

Romney learned quickly how to play the games deregulation created, when suddenly the 'ability to make deals became more valuable than the ability to make a product.'
When 'the ability to to instantly engineer billions in illusory financing trumped the comparatively slow process of making and selling products for gradual returns.'

................................

And Empty Quiver writes, "I don't give a goods rats ass what the faults of Romney are at this point."   I guess not.  It's good for you your mind is made up.
But what about us poor folks who see very little difference between Obama and Romney?
We must decide to 1) vote for Obama or Romney, but can't support either in good conscience
2) protest vote, third party.   or 3) abstain.

There's a lot more of us than you might think.