Author Topic: Patch Lubes: Pros and Cons (Read 2269 times)

swecology · « **on:** February 08, 2004, 06:18:23 AM »

Howdy Y'all,

Does anyone have any experience and opinions regarding the best type of lube to use in a Lyman GPR, 1:60" twist?

Tried out the gun for the first time on Friday, and it worked fine. But, with each shot (only had time for 4 loads), loading seemed to get "tighter" and harder. I can only think that this is due to fouling. I was shooting .495RB, .010 patch, Goex FFg and using Trapper's Pure Mink Oil from TrackoftheWolf to lube the patch. The condition of the patch after shooting was fine - no burn throughs or cuts.

I'm just wondering if there is another (better?) lube out there to use. One that prevents fouling better and is "slicker"? On the other hand, the Mink Oil seemed to give a really tight seal without any blow-by.

Matt

rollingb · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2004, 07:41:21 AM »

My favorite lube is plain ol' "spit" when I'm at the range, or shoot'n competition. I've found no other lube thet "cuts" tha foul'n as good as "spit" does.

I use a "bear oil-bee's wax" mix, for a hunt'n lube 'cause it don't dry out like "spit" after a full day's hunt'n.

With yore .50 you might want to give FFFG a try, the "finer" powder creates less foul'n. Accuracy is always the main objective, and some folks "swab" 'tween each shot, I don't, and I still git sub-2 inch groups at 100 yards, but you'll have to see what yore rifle prefers.

DLH · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2004, 12:48:08 PM »

:shock: I have shot alot of muzzleloader compition, They require that the barrel be swabed after each shot, not so much for acc. (they would like to out shoot you any way they can) but for the saftey of it. about 9 years ago we were shooting on a cool damp day, one of the guys who didn't like rules, figured he wouldn't swab. well he dumped the powder, started the ball, and started to push it down the barrel, BOOM!! 2 fingers gone!!! one landed in a friend shooting box, he hasn't shot muzzleloader since.

Now someone will say" I blow down the barrel before I reload" think about it? putting your month over the muzzel. just might shoot your mouth off!! Point 2 "what is black powder made of?" charcoal, sulpher, and saltpeater. what happen's when you blow on your charcoal grill?

I will always rember "THAT BOOM"

Oh yea, for hunting I use a mix of 1lb CRISCO + 1 stick ALLOX bullet lube.

Ramrod · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2004, 01:26:55 PM »

DLH, lots of peolpe don't swab, you should see the N-SSA skirmishers if you wan't to see rapid firing, and their saftey record is pretty darn good.I know a guy who broke his neck on the way to a trapshoot, must be a dangerous game.
Point is, "stuff" happens.
swecology, as far as lube goes, it's kind of like a guy's choice of women. they all work for someone. Only you can tell what works best for you. Time to go into experimental mode!
Ramrod

ogemakw · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2004, 12:32:54 AM »

swecology, I use the infamous bore butter lube when shooting rifles and pure olive oil on the smooth bore. i don't own a gpr, but my tc renegade needs swabbing every shot or loading is hard. On the other hand I have a pedersoli that I can shoot 7-8 times no trouble. Alot depends on the depth of the rifling. Bottom line for me is do what ever the gun tells you to do.

bull · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2004, 02:09:17 AM »

I tried using bore butter years ago for a patch lube. Changed back to an old standby though. A friend and I found that when using the bore butter, our shots would "walk" high and right as we shot. This was happening to both of us. I was shooting a .50 Renegade and he was shooting a .45 Hawkin. We switched back to our old lube,Crisco, no walking. And it's easy to find and not very expensive. And if you carry enough with you, you can cook up your kill on the spot.

Snowshoe · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2004, 01:22:10 PM »

I started using windshield washer fluid, olive oil and a little Murpheys oil soap. It lets me shoot 4 or 5 shots with no problem. I have been using a felt wad under the patched ball to keep from contaminating the powder. I have noticed that cleaning is easier as well. As soon as spring rolls around, I plan on doing some gopher shooting with the .50, so that should give it a good test.

PowderFlask2 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2004, 02:46:06 AM »

DLH

I am curious, If you fire your gun and it goes boom. Now you blow down the barrel, are you saying that there is some thing left in the barrel that will go boom again?

It would seem to me that the heat, pressure, etc. of the first firing would leave nothing left combustible in the barrel.

has any one on the board ever fired a single barreled muzzleloader successfully and then found any way to get it to go boom again?

most BPCR shooters use blow tubes to blow down the barrel and get moisture down the barrel to soften fouling, and are winning national championships, of course in these competitions there is not enough time to wipe between shots.

it seems to me this might help accuracy with muzzleloaders in situations where there is not enough time or the conditions do not allow wiping the barrel between shots (we are after all both using black powder)

I think that if some one could replicate a single barreled muzzleloader going boom twice that it would be interesting for a lot of people and worthy of publication in Muzzleblasts etc.

rollingb · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2004, 04:49:01 AM »

I haf'ta admit, thet I blow down my bore after fire'n also,... ben do'n it since before thet 30 year-old range-officer (what cussed me out for it), was even borned.

Blow'n down tha bore USE'TA be "recommended" by the NMLRA, 'til they turned into a bunch of weird liberal fanatics.
I still blow down my bore when I'm alone in tha "hills", but I also git the "feel'n I'm be'n watched"!

DLH · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:44:30 AM »

Powderflask2
Go back and read what was written, not what you thought you read.

I wrote that guy didn't like rules, so intead of swabbing he "dumped the powder down the barrel and then started the ball down the barrel" Thats when the gun went boom the second time. Picture this a Ember (for lack of a better term is in the breach of your gun, you dump fresh powder down on it. then start the ball going down the barrel, it moves air around the ember fanning it hotter, (and we know that happens because we can hear the air comming out of the nipple)
As to something left in the barrel, the next time you shoot even 1 or 2 shots, turn your gun upside down and tap it on a clean sheet of paper, see what you get? I have seen a clunker (a hard burnt something) twice the size of a no. 4 lead shot! then scrape the breach face and see what you get.
as for 2 shots, it doesn't even work to put in 2 loads, just kicks more!!

PowderFlask2 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:54:06 AM »

DLH

Your quote was

Now someone will say" I blow down the barrel before I reload" think about it? putting your month over the muzzel. just might shoot your mouth off!!

OK Explain to me how this works

Again I ask, once your gun has gone boom are you saying you can get it to go off again with out dumping powder down it?

I want some one to explain to me how blowing down the barrel does any thing bad except for making your lips dirty

jgalar · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2004, 10:42:24 AM »

Why not get some cheap aquarium tubing and either push it on the nipple or run it down the bore and blow into it...

rollingb · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2004, 11:20:54 AM »

jgalar,.... Use'n a piece'a plastic hose to "blow" thru tha bore would probly be OK for 99.99% of most muzzle-shooters, but it's "not" for me.

When I shoot in a "NMLRA sanctioned shoots", I do tha "goofy swab'n thing", rather than chance dump'n powder down on a live ember!! (which BTW, they DON'T require you to "swab", so I guess blow'n yore hand off is "OK" with them!) :roll: :?

Ever heard the say'n,... "The small rendezvous/shoots are the "best"??.... thet's 'cause most of'em ain't "sanctioned" by the NMLRA!!

Heck!!.. I think I got sort'a "off topic",..... sorry!!

jgalar · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2004, 11:56:16 AM »

rollingb, I've gotten the black lip from blowing down the barrel also. It does get folks nearby upset seeing you stick the barrel to your face though. You are breaking safety rules doing it. When shooting at the range I just use the tube. If I saw a seasoned muzzleloader doing it it wouldn't bother me. Just don't inhale :-)

DLH · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2004, 12:13:29 PM »

Did anyone read the artical by Jim Shockley in North American hunter this month??
Seems that Shockley got his buddy Mangus to blow down the barrel. I forget to mention the temp. was below zero!! anyway his lips froze to the barrel!! the rest is antics of getting his lips unfrozen. Shockly about the only thing that I read in that mag. But someday I GOTTA meet Jim Shokley!!!!!

rollingb · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2004, 12:30:40 PM »

I don't read nuthin of Shokley's 'cause he gits paid to "bad mouth" traditional muzzleloaders and roundballs! :x :noway:

DLH · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2004, 12:50:22 PM »

come to think about it, I never have seen shokley shoot a real gun! it always looks like modern gun? I tried one once but couldn't stand the plastic feel!!

hey rollingb did you get your e-mail fixed yet??

rollingb · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2004, 12:59:50 PM »

DLH,.... Thanks fer ask'n,.. Yep!! got'er fixed!!

Bought a new keyboard, and some Norton software, seemed to fix this "junker" right up!!

tryit · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2004, 04:35:41 PM »

Gents, I am a charter member of the "EX Barrel Blowers Society" a very good friend of mine was shooting a .54 cal flint rifle. Now this fellow had just seen the movie Mountain Men and sort of wanted to be like Brian Keith. As happens the flint went dull there were a couple of pan flashes and a final pan flash when by instinct he wanted to blow the barrel. The thing went off at forehead level damn near blinding him and tattooing his head for the rest of his life, blowing a huge hole in the shelter roof and scaring the hell out of all of us. Needless to say the NMLRA has banned the art of barrel blowing.Tryit.

Longcruise · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:48:50 PM »

swecology, Guess the discussion got a little bit off on a tangent compared to your original question.

Wipng with a damp patch after every shot seems like a lot of hassle but it does work no matter what your lube. The trick is to use just a damp patch and just a couple passes. If you go to wet you need to chase with a dry patch and still leaves your breach wet.

I've used probably a dozen or more lubes in my GP and have found that the need for wiping after each shot varies with the humidity. I shot an aggregate once where I wiped after each target rotation (5 shots per) and then fired a fouler before the 5 record shots and all without wiping between shots. Was using sparingly applied wonder lube (1000+). The gun won't do that all the time, but it was very humid with even a bit of light drizzle at times on that day.

All the lubes mentioned above are good when used appropriately but I truly believe that for consistent shot to shot accuracy you need to wipe between shots. Just my .02 worth (or maybe less :-) )

ogemakw · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2004, 12:21:33 AM »

My opinion on blowing down the barrel is a ml is a firearm. :evil: Don't do it. :evil:

DDO · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2004, 07:30:11 AM »

Re: Blowing down the barrel. Tryit sums it up pretty well. None of use would do anything so stupid as blowing down a loaded barrel, we are all superior people who are never distracted. I would bet that no one here has forgotten it is, Powder, Patch, Ball. No one here has ever shot a double charge or their ramrod. I know I haven't but I've seen all of those things happen to Other People.

SPIT is my lube of choice.

Dewight

whitecloud · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2004, 09:03:19 AM »

you might wanttry different brands of powder. For instance: with elephant brand I have to swab after EVERY shot or next ball loads HARD,with goex Ican get by with three,sometimes four before swabbing.With wano I can get seven,on the eightth I have to swab.fter saying all that,out of habit I swab with a spit patch after every shot. When shooting alot I swab with t/c 13 or my own moose milk after every few sets.

rollingb · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2004, 10:20:34 AM »

I suppose, thet as this world's population git's bigger, we'll see an increase, in shooters "DUMB ENOUGH" to blow down a "LOADED" bore.

Ther NEVER was a "rule" thet said a shooter MUST blow down the bore after fire'n a shot,.... but we "got one" now, thet says we "cain't"!!

I "for one", take offense when other's try to "protect me, from myself"!!
I consider thet, to be a direct "insult" to my intelligence, and use of common sense.
and, I also see it as a "feeble attempt" by others, to inflict ther "personal opinions" upon me!!

Does this make me a "danger" to myself??.... well maybe, in TODAY'S "liberal way'a think'n",.. it DOES!!

Some "non-blowers" probly use bore-lites,.... I hope they "don't shoot ther eye out"!! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

I use "SPIT" for lube,...... too!!

PowderFlask2 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2004, 10:41:39 AM »

rollingb

I'm with you buddy

I have been blowing down the barrel of a flinter longer than I care to remember and yes I remember when it was the accepted way of doing things and the people winning the woods walk all blew down the barrel.

that said I used to use spit patches and had very good accuracy (I am a load from the bag kind of guy and have always wondered where the long hunters found benches to load at)

however in the heat of a timed woods walk I have shoved a piece of cloth in my mouth that had been used to wipe the gun with earlier and the taste of that convinced me to switch to wonder wad patches and I have had good accuracy from them (I try and convince myself that they could have used patches soaked in whale oil in the 1700's)

some one will now advocate outlawing spit patches due to the taste of some patch material and that some idiot forgot to spit on his patch and stuck his tongue down the barrel of a loaded gun

rollingb · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2004, 11:42:42 AM »

PowderFlask2,.... I tryed re-use'n a "spent patch" (once), tasted awful!!

Used to be,... "rules" were introduced to protect "others" from a possible accident!

It was a "SAD DAY",... when society became so "dumbed down", thet it felt the need for "RULES" to protect a fella from himself!!

'Course this is all because some folks now consider "lawsuits", as a source of "income"!!

Ther is nuthin "civil",... 'bout "civilization" and, I find it gits more disgust'n each day!

Load'n "benches/boxs" are for those folks, who lack the "skill" to load from the "pouch"!!

If I cain't "blow" down my barrel at a NMLRA "sanctioned shoot",.... at least I can reserve my "right to disagree" with such rules!! :toast:

flintlock · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2004, 03:44:41 AM »

If you are talking about getting the best accuracy (competition)
most people seem to clean between shots....when I'm hunting,
I load first with a tighter ball/patch combo for the first shot or two...
but then go to to the next size smaller ball...thicker patch...we all
seem to load a tighter ball/patch combo than our ancesters...
this way I can usually get several shots and not worry about
cleaning the barrel....also...I don't use petroleum based products
to clean the barrel...its like a cast iron fry pan...barrels need to
be conditioned oils seem to gum up black powder residue...
I use a mix of 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap/alcohol/peroxide...
don't store this in glass jars...it will expand and break the jar...
I usually just mix about what I will use for each cleaning....
I lube with Snow Seal....and have for about 20 years.
flintlock

crow_feather · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2004, 06:36:29 AM »

Flintlock,
I agree that oil, when mixed with black powder leavins (can't spell residu), seems to make road tar. If that stuff will break a bottle, will it push a ball off a powder charge? I am intrigued to know what type of hunting you do with your rifle.

C F

flintlock · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2004, 03:39:00 PM »

Crowfeather....The cleaner I mix evidently builds pressure over time...
I don't keep it stored for long, because it breaks down...it makes plastic
container bulge...the mixture of equal parts alcohol/peroxide and
Murphy's Oil Soap is one I read in a muzzleblast about 10 years ago...
I've been known to clean barrels with plain alcohol or even Windex...
But when shooting competition the homemade mix seems to not
only clean, but helps lubricate the barrel...
With my .40 I mainly now hunt squirrels, although I killed a turkey
in VA about '79 with it (It's legal to use a rifle in VA for turkeys....not NC
where I now live)With my .54 I hunt deer...I use 80 grains of FF and
cast my own balls...flintlock

dodgecity · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2004, 07:15:29 AM »

"There is nuthin civil about civilization"....that's a good one, and oh so true. I use a spit patch for target shooting and plinking and "old Zip" (mutton tallow mixture) for hunting, or when my rifle is going to remain loaded for a period of time. I always wipe my .32 before reloading, but the .50 only gets wiped every 4 or 5 shots. My rule is that if the last round was a little hard to seat smoothly, then I wipe before loading the next one.