Author Topic: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....  (Read 2127 times)

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Offline sirsloop

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My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« on: September 02, 2012, 09:25:21 AM »
...weaver 4 screw scope base.  Sheared the scope screws right off and sent the entire scope assembly flyin behind me 30ft.  Luckily I didn't catch it in the face!!!  Landed in sand... scope survived the fall.





I guess ditch the stainless screws and try black oxide?

Offline Ladobe

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 01:25:55 PM »
Very happy to hear you were not injured (or worse).   Six screw base time.
 
Wish they had come along sooner while I still had some Encores... I would have loved trying one out, especially without a brake.   ;) 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline Dee

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 01:30:12 PM »
I would be more interested in the x-rays of the hand and wrist in a few years. That should be somethin to see.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 03:34:48 PM »
bahh... that's no worries.  ;D   It kicks but its not that bad (looks at missing scope again HAHA).  Once you figure out how to hold the thing its pretty pleasant to shoot.  I wear weight lifting gloves with the padded palms, and have a nice pachmayr grip.  Its more violent when you attempt to keep your arms completely locked and the thing bends your wrist back.  If your lock your wrist and bend you elbows slightly, when the gun recoils you just allow your arm to rotate up which acts as a big shock absorber.  Just look at youtube with people shooting handcannons.  The more memorable ones are the ones where the gun seems like its gonna rip the shooters hand off.  They are keeping their arms too stiff cause they are freaked out about hitting themselves in the face... and the weakest link ends up being the wrist.

Offline Dee

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 01:13:30 AM »
I'd freak out if someone told me I had to shoot it. ??? :-[
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Curtis

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 03:36:02 AM »
I'd freak out if someone told me I had to shoot it. ??? :-[

I'd shoot it since it has that JP brake on it.  Wonder how it compares with my unbraked 14" 375 JDJ Contender?
 
Curtis
Lord, please help me to be half the man my dogs think I am.

Contender in 17 Rem, 22lr, 22k Hornet, 223 Rem, 256 WM, 6TCU, 7TCU, 7-30, 30 Herrett, 300 Whisper, 30-30 AI, 357 mag, 357 Herrett, 375 JDJ, 44 mag, 45/410..... so far.

Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 06:53:56 AM »
My sister likes shooting it and she doesn't even like guns  ;D ;D ;D

Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 07:27:24 AM »
I just emailed SSK to get prices for them to retap and install the TSOB....  they say they NEVER had one fail on a 500!

Offline Ladobe

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 07:52:46 AM »
Assuming no medical issues that limit a shooter... as I've suggested many times it probably comes down to perceived recoil for each individual.   And that can vary widely between shooters due to factors like technique, experience and even mentality.    Somebody who has not shot anything with punch a lot or not at all on one end verses somebody who has progressively shot stouter and stouter handguns very often over many years on the other.   For some a 44MAG might be pushing their envelope, for others almost nothing does.
 
Since the 375JDJ was brought up... I found very few who would shoot any of mine at the range or when hunting during the years I had them.   Probably more out of fear of the unknown or lack of confidence to try after watching me shoot them than anything.   The couple that did were pleasantly surprised to find them not anywhere near as bad as their unwarranted reputation.  Those that do shoot the 375 regularly know they are not a fire breathing dragon at all and are quite manageable for anybody with good technique and some handcannon experience.   If you can handle a Contender 45/70 you can also handle a 375JDJ easily. 
 
I ran the numbers on mine so knew how they compared in actual recoil to each other way back when.   Somebody would have to run the numbers to compare the 500 S&W Encore for any idea of the actual recoil differences.   The Encore being heavier softens recoil, so I can't imagine it being enough difference either way to matter.   Back in my day the 500 wasn't around, but if it had been mine would not have been braked - I didn't like brakes on any of mine. 
 
The unbraked 416 Rigby Encore I had was approaching the Puff the Magic Dragon handcannon department maybe - at least if you go by how far it threw flames at night.   But it was not so much more that a shooter comfortable with a Contender 45/70 wouldn't have been able to handle it just fine, and I'd bet an Encore 500 as well.
 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 03:16:11 AM »
puff the magic dragon  ;D ;D

Offline spinafish

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 04:45:52 AM »
Not the one Peter,Paul and Mary sang about!
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Ladobe

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 05:48:30 AM »
spinafish... PPM's "puff" parallels in a way.   Can be recreational, put you in a euphoric state of bliss, can increase your heart rate.    All things a true handcannon can do as well.    ;)
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline darkgael

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 06:51:06 AM »
Hmmm. Now I am gonna hafta try it again. I am not recoil shy by any means but....I found the .500 in the Encore - 15" ported barrel - thoroughly unpleasant to shoot. I did not think to wear my Pachmayr gloves. I was testing loads for a friend, shooting Rick Gibson's 600 grain WFNGC bullets and his 700 grain Tyrannosaur Thumpers. Maybe the gloves will help.
Scope stayed on, though.
Pete

Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 02:29:15 PM »
barrel ships tomorrow to SSK... redrilling the holes, installing a 6 screw quarter rib TSOB, 4 rings!  JD says it'll take ~a week.

Offline spinafish

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 03:06:58 PM »
I have to believe you will be very happy with that setup.  Your scopes will thank you
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis

Offline HHI-7420

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2012, 05:26:12 AM »
Sirsloop, I would never use stainless machine screws. I worked for years for a boat company and we used tons of stainless. Found it to be soft and easy to strip. The front screw in your scope base SEEMS to have a point like it may have been twisted in to when mounted. I would use nothing but hardened steel. FWIW,  Pat

Offline Curtis

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2012, 06:55:42 AM »
Sirsloop, I would never use stainless machine screws. I worked for years for a boat company and we used tons of stainless. Found it to be soft and easy to strip. The front screw in your scope base SEEMS to have a point like it may have been twisted in to when mounted. I would use nothing but hardened steel. FWIW,  Pat

Pat, I've been in food manufacturing since 1987 and I share your disdain for stainless hardware.  I would never trust it for anything critical.
 
Curtis
Lord, please help me to be half the man my dogs think I am.

Contender in 17 Rem, 22lr, 22k Hornet, 223 Rem, 256 WM, 6TCU, 7TCU, 7-30, 30 Herrett, 300 Whisper, 30-30 AI, 357 mag, 357 Herrett, 375 JDJ, 44 mag, 45/410..... so far.

Offline rosewood

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 01:30:34 AM »
I am confused, every where I have read on that JP brake says that it almost eliminates recoil.  The theory being, the brake is pushed forward from the expanding gas counteracting the "opposite but equal reaction" from the recoil.  If that is the case, why would it shear off the screws? hmm....

Offline HHI-7420

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2012, 06:22:58 AM »
the brake makes the gun go to the rear and everything else wants to stay where it is. I've even had forearm screws bend and crack with just a 358jdj(probably a little loose in the first place).  Pat

Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2012, 03:17:34 AM »
I can assure you no amount of brake will completely eliminate the recoil of a 350gr bullet flying outta a pistol at ~2000fps!  ;D ;D

got it back from SSK... I'll find some time in between bow hunting to hit the range and we'll see what happens!!  The new mount looks real nice...great looking install.  I have a few .357 magnums, one with an optic.  Heck you can throw anything on that gun and its fine.  When you start breaking the glass in red dot and Leupold scopes, breaking light bulbs at the range from the concussion alone, shearing off scope mounts... then you know you have a true hand cannon!! Its been an adventure finding what gear holds up!!


Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2012, 03:33:07 AM »
RAWRRR!!!


Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2012, 01:51:13 AM »
The 500 is back in business!!  Took it to the range and muscled through 50rds.  Got it dialed in etc etc. The TSOB really does appear to be tough, and I'm diggin the rings they use at SSK.  They are nice and clean looking.


Offline spinafish

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 12:14:45 PM »
2 thumbs up!! :D
the most heartwreching words any man will ever hear
"depart from me, I never knew you"  Jesus
We may ignore, but we can nowhere evade the presence of God. The world is crowded with Him. He walks everywhere incognito.” C.S. Lewis

Offline HHI-7420

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2012, 08:07:13 AM »
Ladobe, this is directed towards you as you seem to have more knowledge than the rest of us in the recoil/scope area. I have a 2x7 burris w/leuopold rings(dovetail) and mount on my 358jdj. Been on there for a few years with no problem. At the range the other day the scope came loose in the rings and pounded the forward end of the turret a little(?). I' ve worked the rings for the scope so that's a moot issue. Re lok tighted the screws(blue) and tried it out. Belive it or not, it shot a 3/4" group dead on without any adjustment @ 50 yds.
The problem- I could see a LARGE chip in the glass inside the scope. When I took it off to send to Burris I noticed a slight rotational movement(1/16") counterclockwise only in the lower front ring portion. No side to side or front to back motion. Remember, it still shot fairly well. Is this slight movement(the ring was only turned once to mount the scope orignally) a problem and could it be the reason for the chipped lense?  Pat

Offline sirsloop

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2012, 03:46:59 PM »
from my experience if that sucker comes loose AT ALL with a hand cannon, you're gonna either break the scope or break the mount.  I've done both  ;D

I would replace any damaged parts... or just the gun out to SSK and get a TSOB.  The thing is built like a brick house and the rings are real nice.  Its worth the cash.  The scope is trash now that the glass has a crack.  It will just continue to break.  I tried shooting through a chip in one of my red dots and every shot a little more could crack.  ;D

Offline Junior1942

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2012, 01:20:37 AM »
sirsloop, look closely at your before and after pictures. I suspect you were a victim of what I call the "fulcrum effect."  The before scope mount extends beyond the point where the barrel taper starts--the fulcrum.  The pistol recoils and the barrel and its rings & mount want to stay at rest--Newton's Law.  The effect is a counterclockwise rotation of scope, etc., centered on the fulcrum. The front of the scope, etc., wants to move down, and the rear of the scope, etc., wants to move up.  That gives back and forth sheer force due to recoil and up and down force due to the fulcrum.   The result = sheered screws. 

Notice the after picture and how SKS eliminated the fulcrum effect via a moulded-in block on the bottom front of their mount.  It touches the barrel at the rear and at the front.

Your mount also did not perfectly match the contour of the barrel.  In the before picture notice the lines where the edges of the mount marred the barrel above the chamber.  In other words, your mount sat on its edges on top of the barrel instead of on the barrel.  I'd be willing to bet that the SKS mount is a perfect diameter-match to your barrel radius.

You could have eliminated the imperfect diameter-match with emery cloth on the mount with the barrel as a guide.  Then a thin coat of epoxy between mount and barrel would have given extra sheer insurance. 

You could have eliminated the fulcrum effect via a 10-32 x 1/4" or 5/16" set screw through the front of your before mount and just touching the top of the barrel.

But who knows.  SKS is in business for a reason.

Offline rosewood

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Re: My .500 S&W claimed another victim today....
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 01:41:43 AM »
I think "diving board" effect is probably more descriptive. ;D   That makes total sense.  It has been a few years since I studied this in Engineering school, but I do remember the concepts.  Not sure they are really shearing off, or more of snapping off, being pulled apart if this effect is the true cause.  Shearing would involve the mount sliding, this explanation is more of pulling apart of the screws.  I have scratched my head on several of these encore and contender mounts and have never felt warm and fuzzy about that overhang on the end of the mounts.  I try to mount my rings as far back as possible so they are not on that overhand if I can on the heavy hitters that is.  I haven't worried too much about that on the soft recoil calibers.  That set screw is a great idea, be sure to locktite it once it is in place.  If it moves once set, it could screw up your barrel harmonics and affect your accuracy if moving between shots.