please help, my brain is hurting!

[ncloader88]

I have a 270 nef handi that i picked up this spring.  Here is my problem, I want a caliber that works well with cast bullets to hunt with.  Obviously i need something 30 cal or larger with a wide meplat to get the job done.  I don't really want to keep the 270 so i was planing on doing a swap at the pawn shop for a 308 or 30-30 that they had but that didn't work out so i will probably sell it in the classifieds.  Now i am faced with the dilema of choosing something from the list on the h&r site.  i was pretty set on the 45-70, but that uses up a lot of lead and powder (not to mention the recoil factor).  Then i learned about the 35 rem, 445 supermag, 357 max and the 35 whelen.  see what happens?! I've thunk myself in a cricle and can't seem to find a way out.  please give me some specific advice before i just give up on guns altogether!    Keep in mind, I have 200 yards of alfalfa field right off of my 15 foot back porch

[petemi]

I see you mention .445SM and .357 Max, so you must be considering reaming.  I'd get a .35 Rem or .357 magnum and ream one or the other to .356/.358 Winchester.  It'll give you more than the .35 Rem and somewhat less than the .35 Whelen, and it'll scrimp a bit on your lead and powder.  It'll shoot just fine across that 200 yard alfalfa and more. I love mine.  The .445 isn't going to save you any lead, very little powder and with hot loads, the recoil is there.  The Maxi is a great choice too because of its versatility, and it can be loaded to .35 Rem performance levels.  I wouldn't be without mine. 

So there ya go.  I'd vote for the .356/358 or the Maxi.  There's a couple of threads here on the .356/358 and lots on the Maxi if you're interested.

Pete

[jeepmann1948]

Personally................ If I was starting out fresh with the options you listed, I would get a 357 barrel or a 35 Remington. Before I fired either it I would ream to 356/358.  It can be loaded from 38 special  to 358 loads with cast bullets.And if you decide to use jacketed bullets it is ready for 300 yard shots. Pete knows a guy that can ream your barrel out.
 The 357 Max and 445SM are great cartridges but the brass for them is seasonal. Plenty of 308 Win cases and a pass thru the resizing die and you are ready to go.The 356 Win brass is out there and usually available for now.
 Check out the load data for the 358/356 using cast bullets. It may be the right choice for you.
Happy Trails
George

[cwlongshot]

First of all, WELCOME!!

The single caliber that came to mind when reading your post is the 35 Whelen!  It is a very good cast bullet cartridge!!

The 30/30 , 308 & 30/06 are great cartridges but if lead bullets and big game hunting agre your intension bigger bores will do a better job.

The Whelen can be loaded mild to wild with a good GC bullet suitable for everything this continent has to offer.

BUT any of the 35 cal you mentioned would also fill that requirement.

I have never been a fan of the 44's but will not hesitate to say they also have allot to offer! Same for the 45 Colt and certainly the 45/70!

CW

[ncloader88]

This talk about the 358 Winchester is interesting, how does the recoil compare to the 270?  It seems like a better option than the 35 whelen because it is more versatile and can be more easily loaded down if needed.  Has anyone tried a load with trail boss?

[tdoor]

Don't count out the 45-70 or the 444 marlin,  I shoot cast in both of mine and am not afraid to go out to 200 or more yards with cast,  Infact my 45-70 trapdoor and 1884 dantish rolling block with black powder loads is deadly at 200

[cwlongshot]

This talk about the 358 Winchester is interesting, how does the recoil compare to the 270?  It seems like a better option than the 35 Whelen because it is more versatile and can be more easily loaded down if needed.  Has anyone tried a load with trail boss?

In the same rifles, each shooting the "standard" loading the 358 has about 25% more recoil. BUT its shooting  a bullet almost 70g heavier, at about 500 fps less. (Based on a 130g 270 @ 3000 and a 200g 358 @ 2500)

I also have a long running love affair with the 358, receintly a couple of us reamed other 35 calibers into 356 Winchesters. (Its a 358 with a rim @ slightly lower pressures) The rim makes it SS friendly But hand loaded you can load it the same as the 358 so 2500 fps is attainable. A simple alteration to the extractor will allow the newly chambered 356 to fire 358 rounds. It would require reaming another 35 cal to get there.
Going 35 Whelen is a turn key. Buy the gun, buy ammo, (off the shelf) and go hunting/shooting. PLUS firing 200g bullets at nearly 2700 fps is possible PLUS 250 g bullets at 2400 fps while the 358/356 will only get about 2200fps.

CW

[twoshooter]

I have to say, given the ones you mentioned, I would advise the 444. Here is why. First, the 444 is a standard cartridge, you can buy them right off the shelf in any reasonably good sporting goods store. That also means that you do not have the expense and risk of trying a ream job.  Secondly, they have the flat meplat you mentioned for better performance on game. Most of the 35's have a pointed or roundnose configuration in their cast form. Also, 44 handgun bullets work just fine on deer sized game at longer distance where they are still at magnum handgun velocities. Third, although I love the 45/70, the 444 is more economical. The best cast loads for my 45/70 are with bullets in the 340 to 450 grain range, the 444 works very well with 232 to 250 gr bullets. At the same velocity the 444 kicks considerably less because it is throwing 1/4 to 1/3 less lead. In factory loads, or in reloads with jacketed bullets, the 444 is considerably flatter shooting than the 45/70. Loading to similar pressures I also think the 444 brass life is a little better than the 45/70, they have heavier walls.
 The 35 Whelan is great in a bolt gun, but there have been some problems ( supposedly fixed) with the Whelan in the single shot, and the 35 Rem also has a small shoulder and soft brass. The 444 has a rim, no headspace questions.
   If you actually wanted a 270, I would suggest an economy bolt from wally world, they are a good value. However........ if you have what it takes to join the few, the proud, the magazine capacity impaired..... world of handiholics....... welcome aboard! You really can't go wrong, we are happy to have you, we are all equal here....(but some are more equal than others they have rims --troll ---troll )

   I actually have and use 4 of the above mentioned, I just think that given your circumstances the 444 would be the best place to start. There IS no stopping.........

[geezer56]

I have or have had all the calibers you mentioned.  I also have a lot you didn't.  My input here would be the 444 or the lowly 30-30.  The 30 cal is easier on the wallet due to lower bullet and powder weights involved.   The 444 is like the 45-70, heavy slugs, larger amounts of powder.  BUT, all things being equal (and they are not) the 444 hits much harder, has the cast bullets available from 185 gr up to 300+, and can be loaded down to use less component weight for reloading.  For hunting, a 200 yd poke is a stretch for either with big flat nosed cast bullets.  I have shot game with the 30-30, the 444 and 45-70, all using cast.  Bigger is better, but the 444 and 45-70 are so close in performance as to make no nevermind.  The 44 cal bullets are available already cast, or Lee and some other folks make a nice hunting bullet mold for not a lot of cash.  I am partial to the Lee C429-310-RF.  It shoots good in my 444, and puts a thumping on whatever it hits.  I've been playiing with 7mm and 8mm cast, along with the 30's, there is just no replacement for displacement.  The 35's are a good compromise also.  Molds that are suitable for hunting are pricey though in the 35.

[ncloader88]

Geezer, that lee mold has been the biggest thing drawing me to the 44 cal!  I considered the 445 just because of being able to load 44 mag ammo in it for "plinking" and short range shooting.  After considering it, i think i am just going to stick with short range barrels for my cast bullets and have a seperate barrel for my long range.  i will probably still go the 44 rout so that i can cast my own bit i plan on getting a long range barrel first (been thinking on the 7/08)

[USSColorado]

I am not a fan of the 270, but selling one and replacing it with a 7mm/08 seems wasteful.  I once traded a 270 in because I felt I didn't need a coyote gun.  Now I wish I had it for long range shots on medium game.  The 270 gives you cheaper ammo, as well.  Very important while living in this Obamanation.

[reloaderman]

Just to add to your confusion, how about a 45 Colt ? Nice big chunk of lead with medium charge of powder. Easy on the recoil. I've got one and love it, I have to stifle a laugh every time I pull the trigger!

[Winter Hawk]

I'll throw out the .30-06 or .308 for consideration.  I shoot cast with my .308 and did so also with a -06 I had.  Plus, there are tons of .30 caliber commercial bullets available if you need a higher velocity.  I found recoil to be mild with the .30-06 Handi compared to some other rifles I have shot in that caliber, probably because of the stout barrel weight.

-Kees-

[BBF]

I vote for the Whelen and the 444,  the 30-30 Win bringing up the the last. IMO both the 30-30 and the 444 are not my idea of a 200 yard cartridge. Perhaps with the Hdy Flextip's only
 
BTW Beartooth makes a 140 gr GC big meplat bullet just for the 30-30 even good  loaded at jacketed bullet velocities.

[twoshooter]

Don't kid yourself. The drop of a 444 @ 200 yards is less than 10" with a 100 yd zero, a 30/30 150 gr load is about 8". Both will shoot a group of 3" or less at that range. The longest shot I have ever made on a deer was with a 444, at a range of 265 yards down a power right of way. I had about a hands width of daylight between the crosshair and his back, there was a clean pass through shot, he made it about 80 yards. If you are talking REAL long range- 400-500-600 yards, these are not the right equipment, but up to 200 yards, they will do just fine.

[rdlange]

If you really want serious performance with cast lead, check out the Paper Patch forum down the forum list a ways.  Also one on Cast Bollits.  Nobade is a regular poster on them.  Has alot of good advise.  A whole nother game, but they really get some winners.