need load info for heavy (200+gr) 357

[rc51kid]

I want to start working on some 357 hand lodes. I have been loading up .38 for a while and got what i want out of that using Missouri Bullets cast lead and Unique. But for the this round of loading i what to make 357 shooting heavy lead cast bullets (220gr is possible) at subsonic velocities using Unique. I will be shooting this out of a Handi with the 357 mag 22" barrel cut and threaded down to 16.5 and through a suppressor. Some of my first questions are how heavy can i go and still get good bullet stabilization? Also how heavy (long) can i go and still fit it correctly in a 357 case with out having to buy max brass? I might go to Max in the future but right now i want to stick to Mag and 38 spl. Also What is a good source for lead cast bullets in the weight range i need? I would rather find something 200gr that is good quality, affordable and available then some 220gr exotic bullet that is expensive and hard to get.   These will mostly be for subsonic "plinking" when i went some "ass" behind the round. But i might also try it out for some varmit control.
PS any suggestions on volume of Unique and pimers is welcome as well

PS i cam across some bullets from Penn Bullets that look interesting. The 200gr TCGC looks nice but i dont know if it is too hard to be pushed 1000fps. The 230gr Thunderhead looks good. But i just dont know if it will stabilize.

[tturner53]

Whoa! Slow down pardner, that's a lot of questions at one time. I don't have a Handi .357 yet, but do shoot a Marlin 1894c .357. Best cast bullet so far is LBT 359-200 WFN. Lots of powder/loading info available, books and internet, powder companies. Maybe do a search for the LBT bullet, I know somebody sells them commercially. I have a mold and make my own. Good luck on your quest.

[gcrank1]

1) your rate of twist will indicate what length projectile will be likely max for stabilization. Weight is somewhat related, but a long pointy nose putting a lot of weight forward will still come down to the length, not necessarily the weight being the limiting factor there.
2) that projectile ojive will determine how far up-bore it can sit, and thus the amount of bullet in the case and thus case capacity.
3) your stabilization will also be affected by your velocity; ie, a sub-sonic heavy bullet will require more twist than a more typical velocity load 'in most cases'. Its a balancing act of bullet length, weight and velocity, not to mention the all important fit to the throat of the given chamber with cast bullets.
4) no need to re-invent the wheel; a lot of this kind of work has already been done, so rather than buy the wrong stuff use some of the proven heavy for caliber loads to gain some real world experience before venturing into rocket science.

[45-70.gov]

i have the 180  LBT  WFN   for  all things 38/357mag and max....[soon  to try in 35rem]


even  in  my suppresser


never felt the need to try any thing different  anymore than just a test fire


this is one great mold....3 pb cavities one gc

[rc51kid]

1) your rate of twist will indicate what length projectile will be likely max for stabilization. Weight is somewhat related, but a long pointy nose putting a lot of weight forward will still come down to the length, not necessarily the weight being the limiting factor there.
2) that projectile ojive will determine how far up-bore it can sit, and thus the amount of bullet in the case and thus case capacity.
3) your stabilization will also be affected by your velocity; ie, a sub-sonic heavy bullet will require more twist than a more typical velocity load 'in most cases'. Its a balancing act of bullet length, weight and velocity, not to mention the all important fit to the throat of the given chamber with cast bullets.
4) no need to re-invent the wheel; a lot of this kind of work has already been done, so rather than buy the wrong stuff use some of the proven heavy for caliber loads to gain some real world experience before venturing into rocket science.

Thanks this is a lot of very good info. My goal was to not have reinvent the wheel. I knew some of the people here had already done a lot of this work. Honestly i could just use some of the many LSWC 158gr i have and lode them up in 38spl brass with known data. For plinking i guess i dont really need the heavy bullet. However it would be fun.

[gcrank1]

Ive had friends in the traditional single shot game use 180gr. cast bullets in 357Mag or Max chambered rifles to good effect. Mostly they were keeping to more traditional velocities, like 1250fps or so. Thos 180ish really thwack the steel much harder than the 158s! On game they would penetrate better too. Id get some that fit closely my chamber throat dia. and see how far down I could load (ie, will they stabilize at sub-sonic?, and/or how far they go before they start to tumble). I would find working all that out to be fun and interesting.....Have Fun! .

[45-70.gov]

i  tried some 135 cast  for the 9mm  in my hadi and 38 brass


thinking  it would be better in reduced loads and save some lead to boot..[yes  i am that cheap]


no comparison to  the reduced  180 wfn   ....bigger is better


i haven't used these much  with the suppresor    because
the 180s are  soooo quiet  and accurate in my handi  with out the can
near 30-30  power  with this slug  in the 357mag  and very accurate  with this slug


357max with  180 wfn....just getting started....but i think  i am happy with my first  load already


this one slug does it all for me......[not counting the gc cavity]
the 200+  might end  up  specialized mold.......but molds are like guns  can't have too many

[rc51kid]

i  tried some 135 cast  for the 9mm  in my hadi and 38 brass


thinking  it would be better in reduced loads and save some lead to boot..[yes  i am that cheap]


no comparison to  the reduced  180 wfn   ....bigger is better


i haven't used these much  with the suppresor    because
the 180s are  soooo quiet  and accurate in my handi  with out the can
near 30-30  power  with this slug  in the 357mag  and very accurate  with this slug


357max with  180 wfn....just getting started....but i think  i am happy with my first  load already


this one slug does it all for me......[not counting the gc cavity]
the 200+  might end  up  specialized mold.......but molds are like guns  can't have too many

I would like to find one bullet that i could use for subsonic shooting and hunting. But can i find one 180gr LSWC to use for both? I thought that i would need different hardness of leads for such different velocities. I figured the subsonic would need a softer lead and full bore 357 mag or max would need something hard. I dont cast my own and would like to stick with bullets i can buy.

[45-70.gov]

if  your fit  is good


hardness  is less  of an issue


i stive for 50/50 pure lead to ww   and  always water drop


i rearly use the ones that drop out of the g c cavity

[blind ear]

i  tried some 135 cast  for the 9mm  in my hadi and 38 brass


thinking  it would be better in reduced loads and save some lead to boot..[yes  i am that cheap]


no comparison to  the reduced  180 wfn   ....bigger is better


i haven't used these much  with the suppresor    because
the 180s are  soooo quiet  and accurate in my handi  with out the can
near 30-30  power  with this slug  in the 357mag  and very accurate  with this slug


357max with  180 wfn....just getting started....but i think  i am happy with my first  load already


this one slug does it all for me......[not counting the gc cavity]
the 200+  might end  up  specialized mold.......but molds are like guns  can't have too many

I would like to find one bullet that i could use for subsonic shooting and hunting. But can i find one 180gr LSWC to use for both? I thought that i would need different hardness of leads for such different velocities. I figured the subsonic would need a softer lead and full bore 357 mag or max would need something hard. I dont cast my own and would like to stick with bullets i can buy.

-
Spin rate changes with velocity. Might be hard to find a bullet that will stabelize at sub sonic until you get down into standard 357/38 weights. I don't have the experience or learnin to know exactly. Heavy just takes more velocity to get the spin rate for the longer bullet. Good luck. ear

[gcrank1]

The problem is that a twist that is just 'marginal' or too slow for a given length projectile can rarely be overcome with enough velocity to stabilize and stay within pressure. Yes, it has happened, but dont count on it if the formula says your bullet is too long for the twist.