Rifle for Hog defense

[skippylou]

This is not strictly a hunting question; more of a hog defense question.  In the winter, I enjoy hiking along the Rio Grande in New Mexico with my dogs.  Over the past few years I have seen an increasing number of feral hogs.  I always carry a 1911 loaded with hardball as a general precaution.  One incident with a charging hog of about 200 lbs.  One shot, shoulder hit at about 15 yards stopped the attack.  From what I have read about feral hogs, I think I was very lucky.  Now I do not feel adequately armed with a 45 auto.  I know that these unprovoked attacks are rare, I think he was actually after my 18 pound terrier.  I would prefer to go with a rifle over a big bore revolver.  I can hit what I aim at with the single action 45 but can't hit squat with a double action big bore revolver, especially one handed.  I would like lightweight, maneuverable, reliable rifle with adequate stopping power for oncoming head or shoulder shots at close range. Lots of dust, sand and dirt here so I need reliability in these conditions.  I don't want an AR or AK or a super heavy recoil like a 45-70 or 358 Winchester as I want to practice a lot.  Here is what I have been thinking about:

1894 in 38-55, 44 magnum or 45 long Colt.  Use heavy hard cast FN bullets.

Ruger Gunsite Ranch Scout 308.

Ruger 10/44.

Open to other suggestions or opinions on which might be best.  I will probably try a variety of factory loads and get into reloading when I have a good supply of brass so suggestions on good commercial loads for this task appreciated. Thanks.

PS: Getting bigger dogs is not an option. 

[Larry L]

FWIW, my little brother is a trapper in South Texas. He'll kill well over 1000 hogs a year. Most of the time he's packing his 375 Winchester which is a lot like a 38-55 on steroids. He's loading RE7 behind a 220gr Hornady as I remember. I assume that if the yardages are low, a 38-55 is all the gun you'd need. He also uses occasionally a 38-55 with Beartooth gas check bullets. He has the old Model 94's in the rifle and carbine versions so they are kinda expensive guns to drag thru the brush. But when he knows he's going to run into a bunch of hogs and big ones, the 375 gets in the truck. Might consider a 375 and load it down some....or up if need be.

[kynardsj]

A lever action 44 mag or 30-30 would be a good choice. Both would be capable of a fast follow up shot if needed.

[Land_Owner]

Check out the Buffalo Classic Handi-rifle in 45 Colt claiber.  It is a REAL short single shot rifle:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/open-h-r-nef-firearms-forum/42601-pics-your-h-r-nef-rifles-5.html

http://50caliberforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=handirifle&action=display&thread=2683

...and pay less than $225.00 regardless of what Flea-Bay and Rip-Off Consignment Guns of America have to offer.

[skippylou]

FWIW, my little brother is a trapper in South Texas. He'll kill well over 1000 hogs a year. Most of the time he's packing his 375 Winchester which is a lot like a 38-55 on steroids. He's loading RE7 behind a 220gr Hornady as I remember. I assume that if the yardages are low, a 38-55 is all the gun you'd need. He also uses occasionally a 38-55 with Beartooth gas check bullets. He has the old Model 94's in the rifle and carbine versions so they are kinda expensive guns to drag thru the brush. But when he knows he's going to run into a bunch of hogs and big ones, the 375 gets in the truck. Might consider a 375 and load it down some....or up if need be.

I've been kind of leaning towards the 38-55.  Can get 255 grain FN from 1250 fps (Black Hills Cowboy) to 1950 fps (Buffalo Bore).  With the factory prices I will have real incentive to get into reloading.  Since I am no rifle expert, I would rather buy new than used; hopefully avoiding someone else's problem.  Although some people don't consider them "real" Winchesters, I have heard that the Miroku made Winchesters are good quality and they don't have that crossbolt safety.  The 375 might be a bit too much for me. 

[skippylou]

Check out the Buffalo Classic Handi-rifle in 45 Colt claiber.  It is a REAL short single shot rifle.

Even though a second shot might not be possible in a close quarters emergency, I think I want more than a single shot rifle.

[Ranger99]

get more magazines for your 1911,
and some quality ammo.


i wouldn't think you should feel undergunned
with a .45


if you still do after much .45 practice,
get you a marlin 1894 .44 or a marlin 30/30


with the right ammo and confidence-boosting practice,
there's nothing that can't be put down with
one of those.


good luck

[Ranger99]

and shoot for the head on angry porkers.


i've shot 'em with .50 cal mzloaders and
95 gr. 3f in the body.
that don't work.
you cant get through the armor plate good
enough, and the fat plugs the holes.

[skippylou]

get more magazines for your 1911,
and some quality ammo.


i wouldn't think you should feel undergunned
with a .45


if you still do after much .45 practice,
get you a marlin 1894 .44 or a marlin 30/30


with the right ammo and confidence-boosting practice,
there's nothing that can't be put down with
one of those.


good luck

Nothing that can't be put down???  Yeah, I'll just ask him to turn left and shoot him behind the ear!

I have confidence that I can hit what I aim at with my 45.  My only question is adequate penetration.  More magazines (which I have but never carry) are not much help if you only have time for one or possibly two aimed shots.  I have considered getting a few boxes of Buffalo Bore +P FN cast 255 grain 960 fps (less from my 3 inch barrel).  255 grains at 1500 to 1900 fps from a rifle should give me more confidence.

Has Marlin cleaned up their act since the Remington takeover? 

[Ranger99]

you can do it. . .
pop it in the head with the .45
if i can do it , you can.


(nothing that can't be put down
meaning the rifles)

[Larry L]

Only issue with the 38-55, if you've never loaded for one, is the barrel bore diameter. They're not the same and bullet diameters from .375 to .379 are common...and it effects accuracy a lot. Most are comfy at .377 but it doesn't always work. Factory ammo is according to brand as to what you get. That's kinda why the 375 loaded own might be a better choice, providing you reload. Factory ammo is pretty stiff on recoil. If an AR platform doesn't make ya wanna throw up, might consider the 30 Remington. It's not bad in recoil yet packs a pretty good wallop. Factory ammo is not bad either. Another old dandy hog getter would be the 35 Remington. Recoil is going to be about the same as the 38-55 using a 200 gr bullet. You should be able to easily find an old Marlin in 35 Remington. I'd suggest one with the Ballard rifling over the microgroove though. I have several of them in 35 Rem and they all shoot extremely good. Remington factory ammo works best in mine.


Marlin, from what I've seen and heard has major issues. Most any of them before the Remington buyout were decent but the farther you go back the better.

[Ranger99]

marlin does have issues now.


all mine are oldies, from 1950
thru late 70's all pre-cross bolt


i've had as good luck with my
1894 .44 on pork as anything.


noggin shot is where it's at.
those things can absolutely
soak up the lead like nothing
i've ever shot at if you try
body shots.

[Hodr]

For the price you are talking about you could get a Mossberg 500 JIC (just in case) cruiser.  under 6 lbs, 18.5" barrel, pump action and the advantage of multiple rounds of 12ga buckhammers or 00 buck shot in a proven system with a pistol grip handle.  I can just about guarantee this as a hog stopper if you are discomoded in the Rio Grande river area.  For practice use bird shot gain muscle memory and buck hammers when a hog is at a distance you can smell him.  Personally when I am in Texas after hog I use a 357 mag Win Trapper with  8 125 grain Buffalo Bore in the tube, and 1 more in the chamber.  I have never had a hog decide to come after me in Texas but it has happened to me with russian boar on Catalina Island off Calif.  The guy I was backing up took the boar out with an 8' spear. 
 
Hodr

[drdougrx]

I'm thinking of a nice LW winchester 94 with a 170gr rn bullet.

[Land_Owner]

Even though a second shot might not be possible in a close quarters emergency, I think I want more than a single shot rifle.

I was mostly thinking of lighter weight to carry with ample stopping power.  If required, the barrel is an effective club!  A lever gun Marlin 336 in 30-30 Win. is 4 rounds in the tube and one in the chamber.  Got to go +1 with drdougrx on the 170 gr. ammo even though 150 grain will go through side to side, depending on the bullet.  My choice there is the Nosler Partition in either weight.

The "armor plate" mentioned above is mostly a myth.  True, there is a real thick cartilage and fat "shield" covering both shoulders and the top part of the back that others have reported will deflect a glancing bullet (mostly Urban Myth in that).  I have never seen this to be true and I kill a lot of hogs, even with the lowly 22 LR.  The right bullet in the right place and they are DeadRightThere (DRT).

[Ranger99]

when i say armor plate, the cartilage you speak of is
what i mean. i've never said a bullet or arrow would glance
off. that said, in my neck of the woods, add the wire-like
hair covered with dried mud and diesel or creosote that
they like to wallow in , and it makes for a tough broadside shot.
the fat and cartilage will also "plug"  what would be considered
a textbook broadside shot, and leave you with little or no
blood trail. i'm sure not saying they're invincible, i've killed too
many. but they won't give up the ghost as easy as a whitetail
and sure don't bleed as easy . that's why i use a head shot when
i pop one.

[Land_Owner]

Got to seriously agree that the head and neck shot is an effective killer.  From a steady rest and within 25 yards I shoot them in the "X" between ears and eyes with a reliable and accurate Ruger K77/22RP LR for an effective killing brain shot.  The report of the lowly 22 LR doesn't send them running for cover.  They settle down to eating corn and I shoot another...then another...then another until they get wiser if there are any left.

[Ranger99]

two is usually all i'll take.
i figure that's enough to bother
with cleaning at one time and
not enough freezer room.


if someone else is with me, we'll
get as many as we can.
my hunting buddy is still agile
enough that he can still run fast
enough to grab a suckling or two
to carry home and feed out. we've
shot a sow on the nest before, and
waited, and the babies drift back in
15-20 minutes.


hogs are hardy, like big cockroaches
with hair and backstraps.

[onegunred]

IMO a 12ga pump slug gun with a carry strap.  I carry a Ruger SBH 4.6", but the shotgun will put a stop to darn near anything. Where along the RIO do you walk? My son saw a pig laying dead along the road north of Los Lunas.
'

[cwlongshot]

WELCOME Skippylou!

 I have actually shot two 200+# boars in self defense...  Both where shot in the head, between the eyes with a Remington 2 3/4"  Slugger 12 ga. @ about 10 yards.
Believe it or not, shot with a 18" H&R single shot. Cooler heads prevail, I simply did what was needed.
I didn't move from the spot. I fired at the first, as he charged. I opened the gun, the shell ejected, I replaced it. All with out taking my eyes off the second pig. He spun and charged me, I put the front site on the head and squeezed a second time. Both pigs died, in a pile not 10' from where I stood.




Personally I would load that 1911 with a good SWC hard cast bullet. Chances are you carry it because you feel confident with hitting what you shoot at. I have taken a couple hogs with the 45 ACP, with good bullets from a careful shooter it can be a effective tool.

If you feel the need for a rifle, without knowing your preferance in actions. I will give you mine. A Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt (44 Mag just as good) Loaded with a heavy, WFN bullet hard cast for penetration. I like a 300G but a 250 would be just as good. Something else, the colt or mag will hold almost ten in the mag tube where a 30-30/ 35 rem only gets you 4-5 rounds.
Oh yea, forget about the amour "plating". These bullets will not "bounce" off the pig. Watch my video and see...



You mentioned rifle, so I did not think shot gun. BUT I agree with OneGunRed (WELCOME!!)  and say that there is nothing better than a Pump 12Ga for a close range defensive firearm.

[mechanic]

A 12 guage slug gun is as good a pig stopper as you are apt to find at close range.  If it don't put them down, you better find a tree to climb.
 
If you will notice when DNR goes in after a bear, they always seem to have a 12 ga. slug gun.
 
Sometimes simpler is better.
 
Ben

[surehuntsalot]

a 12 or 20ga pump shotgun would be my weapon of choice
I use a Rem.20ga  870 youth model hog hunting wild hogs in the swamps here in Mississippi

[Land_Owner]

Welcome to the Forum onegunred.  We're glad you are here to keep the campfire chat lively.

[onegunred]

Glad to be here by golly. I was checking on prices for used shot guns and they are pretty reasonable, $175 to $250., not bad at all.

[Mikey]

Skippylou:  I will second Ranger99 and definately go wtih what cwlongshot advises - a nice hard cast swc in that 1911.
Actually, I would use either of two slugs:  the Mag-Tech 230 gn fmj-swc or someone like Mt. Baldy's 238 gn cast swc variant of the Keith style swc developed for the 45 Auto Rim. 
I use both those slugs over a healthy charge of Unique to bring the velocity to between 875'/sec and 900'/sec and they penetrate straight on, both of them. 
If you are comfortable with the 1911 and have already put one hoggie down with 230 gn ball, then just go with a better bullet and practice a bit more and you should be fine.  imo.

[Cemo]

No AR or AK? A semi-auto would be ready handy to carry and fast to get into action and offers quick follow up shots. Ruger has several options in semi-autos. The Mini-14, Mini-30 are available new and used, either would be excellent for hog defense. Ruger no longer produces their excellent .44 Mag. semi-auto carbines, but they are still available on the used market and can still be found in good shape. Ruger's 77/44 and 77/357 bolt action carbines would be another handy to carry and fast into action option. In lever actions, I would go with a .44 Mag. or 30-30 as the ammo is ready available. The straight wall .44 Mag. cases are a breeze to reload and cases hold up well.

[swordfish]

For those saying 45 auto I have to disagree. I shot one big boy twice in the head stright on, with my 45 and it didn't stop him coming. It took 5 to turn him. I carry a 357 or 44 mag as backup ever since.
 
Slugs in a shotgun would be the cheapest fix and will do the job well.
An original (pre 2008) Marlin lever action in 30-30 are easy to find used, cheap enough, and will work fine. It's not like you need a new rifle, get yourself a a good used one that you don't mind setting down on the rocks. The 38-55, 44mag, and 45Colt are all much more expencive.
 
my 2 cents

[Ranger99]

didn't mean to start a fuss.
s.l. already has a 1911 that he's
familiar with, so my thought was :
-get better ammo-get better mags


when i tote a .45 , i have good ammo
packed in a chip mccormick 8 rd mag
and that gives me 9 chances to save
my rear.


my buddy and me have shot hogs with
them while not hog hunting on purpose,
(we were baling hay) and put 'em down ok.


now that's not the classic mark sullivan/stewart
grainger-type safari shots, one in the elephant's
noggin, but blam-blam-blam-blam-whew,that was close
type deal.


when i go hog hunting on purpose, i do carry a
firearm commensurate with the job.


good luck with the pork s.l.

[swordfish]

Ranger, always good to hear what everyone has to say, what they use, and why. It's the best way to learn without going the hard way route. And yes, you are right, lots of the time a 45 will kill or stop them. I had one bad experiance that change my thinking. There was a day, way back when, I used to carry a 9mm as a back up.  I have the guns to choose from now, if I didn't I'd use whatever I had.

Truth to the matter, all you have to do is grab them by the back legs and you can run them around like a wheelbarrow. 

Good hunting
Fish

[Ranger99]

i haven't tried the wheelbarrow bit,
but i know some that get close.
most folks in the area use bay and catch
dogs and run 'em down and handcuff 'em.
(first time i saw that i asked about the cuffs.
easier to get off than duct tape & faster to put on)


i don't try to run with dogs. i just past the
apprentice elderly stage, and entered the
journeyman phase of old geaserness.
i used to could climb a tree on the run, but
i have my doubts now.