Quickest load from 32" 45/70 Govt Barrel?

[jkpq45]

Hello All,

Have a post-2008 SB2 on the way and want to send it to H&R for their 32" 45/70 Govt Barrel (among others).  Am also considering a number of other big "thumpers" so am looking for advice.

What's the quickest load any of you have put together for the 32" barrel on an SB2 frame (NOT buffalo classic, which I've heard can be SB1s)?

Some folks are saying stick to lever loads (and lever loads are completely safe,) others are reaming this sucker to .45-120, etc.

I'd like to start at minimum "Ruger no. 1" loads, if safe, and work up--but only if I get the nod from the experts.

Thanks!
jkpq45

[quickdtoo]

The rifle can get into Ruger/Modern rifle loads easily, it just depends on whose data you use, Hodgdon and Hornady set Ruger loads to 50kcup(kpsi), levergun at 40kpsi, and trapdoor at the SAAMI MAP of 28kpsi, others use lower pressure levels for each level, for instance a max Lyman 48th Ruger load is equal to a max Hodgdon or Hornady levergun load, also be aware that CUP and PSI have equal values in the 45-70, but you'll see most data as CUP. Best advice is start in the upper Trapdoor loads and work up to your maximum, not the rifle's maximum, most folks find upper level 45-70 loads too much for them long before they reach the rifle's limit. 

All H&R BC frames are SB2, they've never offered SB1 framed BCs or Handis, older H&R Inc(out of business in 1986) Shikaris had cast iron frames similar to SB1, were made before NEF/H&R1871 made SB1 or SB2 frames.

Tim

[jkpq45]

quickdtoo, thanks for the advice.  Agreed I might crap out before the rifle does--I plan on weighting the stock, recoil pads, etc.

Should the first sign of trouble be primer cratering?

[quickdtoo]

I wouldn't use any of the typical pressure signs for straight walled cases as a guide, sticky ejection are the only signs I've ever had on my 405 Win when I got near maximum loads, I've never seen any issues with Ruger loads in the 45-70 Handi, just a lot of recoil even with weighted stock and aftermarket pads. I've shot near max Barnes data for the 300gr TSX-FB in the SS Ultra Hunter, their max is 55kpsi, none of the typical pressure signs you see in a bottlenecked round. But the recoil is substantial. When you consider the 500S&W has a larger case head and operating pressures over 50kpsi and is factory available from H&R, the 45-70's smaller case head at the same pressure isn't a problem. Unfortunately the 500S&W also provides the same recoil issues so most folks load it much slower than factory pressures to avoid the recoil.

Tim

[Jason F]

Go for the 45-120. It has less recoil than my hot 45-70loads

[AtlLaw]

Unfortunately the 500S&W also provides the same recoil issues so most folks load it much slower than factory pressures to avoid the recoil.

OH!!! So THAT"S what I did wrong!      I hada bruse for a week!   

[knight0334]

I wouldn't start at lower Ruger #1 loads.   You should start at lower Levergun loads and work your way up from there.   Not all SB2 receivers, barrels, or barrel lugs are created equally.  There is no guaranty that a SB2 can handle high end levergun loads, so starting in the lower Ruger #1 territory is a recipe for disaster.

[jkpq45]

Roger that, Knight.

Forgive my ignorance--why would the 45-120 have less recoil than the 45-70?  Unless it was loaded lighter/slower than the 45-70?

[Jason F]

Slower burning powder, doesnt have quick snap that hot 45-70loads do. I am using 80 grains of i3031

[twoshooter]

Question: If you want a true big bore high speed load, why buy a 45/70? Why not a 416 Remington or something? That being said, also remember that the Marlin / levergun loads are clocked out of 24" barrels. The BC barrel @ 32" should pick up 160 to 200 fps with the SAME load, the slower the powder the more the increase.

[NickSS]

The gun can stand a lot hotter load than the average guy would shoot and a routine basis.  I have a handy rifle with a 22 inch 45-70 barrel and for kicks and gigles I loaded up some 1800 fps loads with a 405 gr bullet to try.  I fired one of them and did not shoot the rest until I put a sand bag between the butt and me.  Personally I use mine with Black powder ballistics now in the 12 to 13 hundred fps range and like it a lot more.

[lrrice]

I agree with nick, big slow bullets = more fun.  I get more accuracy and far more pleasure shooting  slower loads.  If your into hunting elephants, there are better guns.  For pure masochistic glee, grab some hot Ruger loads, get rid of the stock weight and throw away the sissy pad and beat yourself all you want.  There is a happy medium and in my book its ends in the high end lever loads and low end Ruger loads.  Plus, I really like my rifle and want it to last the rest of my life.  I have no desire to beat myself or my action to pieces.

[tykempster]

A 300 grain bullet and H4198 will be a nice fast load. 250 grain bullets are like ping pong balls and I'd stay away from them.

I shoot 60 grains H4198 in my Guide Gun, the Handi can take more, use load data from reliable sources.