Author Topic: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder  (Read 1368 times)

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Offline dantana

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WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« on: September 10, 2012, 11:12:36 AM »
I purchased Super Performance powder last week and test loaded it in my 35 whelen.  Took it up to 62 grs. with only 1900 fps.  That is 1000 short of what it should be.  This is not same SP powder they are using in factory loads.
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Offline muznut 54

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 11:23:17 AM »
Are you sure your chrony was working right? The reason I said that was because I thought the same thing with some of my loads. It wound up being the sun at just the wrong angle.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 11:24:11 AM »
Looking at the burn rate, it's considerably slower than typical Whelen powders.

Tim

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
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Offline dantana

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 12:44:50 PM »
Are you sure your chrony was working right? The reason I said that was because I thought the same thing with some of my loads. It wound up being the sun at just the wrong angle.

At the same time we dropped a load of BL-C2 and the speed was where it should be.  Chrony is OK.  I took load from Hodgdon website for 30-06 with superperformance and it indicated 59.7grs.
 
We loaded up to 62-63 range and got 16xxfps.
 
180 GR. SIE SPBT
Hodgdon
Suprform
.308"
3.220"
54.0
2628
46,200 PSI
59.7
2840
57,600 PSI

At the same time we loaded a load of BL-C2
DanTana
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Offline goodconcretecolor

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 07:04:23 AM »
I checked their web site and Hodgdon does not even list Superformance for the 35 Whelen. That powder is very sensitive to the ratio of cartridge volume to bore diameter. The 35 bore is too big.

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 10:57:29 AM »
Your trying to use a powder that was not designed to work in the 35 , not trying to be a smart axx but you would think that the boys at Hodgdon's might have a slight clue what the powder will and will not work in .
 
A basic loading rule , stick to published data from a " Reliable Source " , there are way too many powders that will work in the 35 with TESTED data .
 
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Offline dantana

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 11:24:51 AM »
I checked their web site and Hodgdon does not even list Superformance for the 35 Whelen. That powder is very sensitive to the ratio of cartridge volume to bore diameter. The 35 bore is too big.

Midway sells 35 in Superformance boxes.
 
 
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Offline McDerry

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 12:01:53 PM »
I checked their web site and Hodgdon does not even list Superformance for the 35 Whelen. That powder is very sensitive to the ratio of cartridge volume to bore diameter. The 35 bore is too big.

Midway sells 35 in Superformance boxes.
And...
 
... They don't have whelen data with that powder.  It may not even be the same powder used in the factory 35 whelen loads.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 12:29:27 PM »
I checked their web site and Hodgdon does not even list Superformance for the 35 Whelen. That powder is very sensitive to the ratio of cartridge volume to bore diameter. The 35 bore is too big.

Midway sells 35 in Superformance boxes.

Hornady makes no mention of using Superformance powder in their 35 Whelen Superformance ammo. They use powders that are unavailable to handloaders.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/35-Whelen-200-GR-SP-Superformance/

Quote
Specialized
Superformance uses ultra progressive propellants that take your favorite SST or GMX bullets to levels of performance that are simply unattainable with conventional propellants.
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline spinafish

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 01:07:01 PM »
Brothers,this sort of stuff scares me.  I recently read an old article (not on this forum,thank God) where someone actually wrote that one powder looked like another powder!(Imagine that!)  I was going to respond with tongue in cheek and tell the person, One can't tell by looking, but if you taste it...but I was really fearful that he might try it!
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 04:23:14 PM »
Brothers,this sort of stuff scares me.  I recently read an old article (not on this forum,thank God) where someone actually wrote that one powder looked like another powder!(Imagine that!)  I was going to respond with tongue in cheek and tell the person, One can't tell by looking, but if you taste it...but I was really fearful that he might try it!


Still not an accurate test as taste varies so much between lots of the same powder.   ::) ???


Good Lord, what ever happened to reading all that material in the front of practically every manual ever written.  The OP is attempting to use data provided for one caliber on a caliber of totally different dimensions and performance and from an online source no less.  Spend the money to buy a book and set down and read it until it is understood.  Problem solved.   

Offline trotterlg

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 04:57:29 PM »
I imagine some confusion was (has) been gererated by calling some ammo superperformance and then naming a powder by the same name.  I guess it could lead some people to believe that superperformance ammo uses superperformance powder?  Probably not correct but I can see how it could be a little confusing to some.  Larry
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Offline dantana

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2012, 12:35:19 AM »
I imagine some confusion was (has) been gererated by calling some ammo superperformance and then naming a powder by the same name.  I guess it could lead some people to believe that superperformance ammo uses superperformance powder?  Probably not correct but I can see how it could be a little confusing to some.  Larry

Thanks Larry,  my very thoughts.
DanTana
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Offline muznut 54

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2012, 04:18:40 AM »
You guys forgot about the snort test :) . A good hand'loader can tell the burn rate by the smell. :o

Offline buck460XVR

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 08:41:03 AM »
Brothers,this sort of stuff scares me.


Same here.  Maybe it's just me, but when a manufacturer doesn't give recipes for it's own powder in a specific application, I always figure there's a reason......and I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer. But I do still have all my fingers.
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Offline kennyd

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2012, 03:35:28 PM »
The 3 things that affect a powder burn are:  case capacity, bullet weight, and bore size.  The case has a volume to contain the pressure initially, then the bullet has to start down the bore--hence the weight factor; then the bore size adds to the total volume, a smaller bore adds volume slower.  This is why something like a .243 will use the same powders as a .300 WB--the ratios are similar.


Manufactorers will use powder we can't get, and mix powders to get their performance curve, they can afford it because they use thousands of pounds.  I know of only one handloader who would blend powders to what he wanted.  I don't know if he really outdid anyone else, but he was an OLD man with all his fingers and both eyes.


It is perplexing to find data that does not list newer powders.  Sometimes it is something like my .300 Savage that it isn't worth the time to work up loads for 4007 or such, although it should work.  Others it is unsuitable for. 


Finally, at times the next increment of powder will work most of the time, but an odd spike will occur on occasion that sets the top limit.


The other thing is the similar names; ie; H4831 and IMR 4831
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Offline kennyd

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2012, 03:43:34 PM »
An after thought.  Had you tried 30-06 data going down in bore size to something like a .270 or .25-06 it well may have been disastrous.  At least a .35 bore ate the pressure.


Manufactorers will answer questions if you ask about an application, if they can.


Old time handloaders will also offer advice and insight.  But be aware that they do not have the means to test their data, and a few may be fools, or worse evil.
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not watching you

Offline dantana

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2012, 06:55:28 AM »
Please give me an example of an ammo maker that has advertised and produced a load like the "Superformance" loads and then place on the market a powder of the same name.  "Superformance" powder.
DanTana
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Offline buck460XVR

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2012, 10:04:05 AM »
Please give me an example of an ammo maker that has advertised and produced a load like the "Superformance" loads and then place on the market a powder of the same name.  "Superformance" powder.

 Hornady produces "Superformance" ammo, while Hodgdon produces "Superformance" powder. Very similar to the "LEVERevolution" lines of ammo and powder. Just like with the "Superformance" line, the LEVERevolution brand of powder cannot be used for all applications with the LEVERevolution type bullets. Very few powders work the best in all applications. Especially when the loads are at the upper end of performance in various calibers and platforms.

I agree with kennyd.....
Quote
Had you tried 30-06 data going down in bore size to something like a .270 or .25-06 it well may have been disastrous.  At least a .35 bore ate the pressure.

This is from the Hodgdon website about Superformance powder......
Quote
Because this powder is tailored for specific applications, the number of cartridges and bullets is limited. But where it works, it really works
"where'd you get the gun....son?"

Offline sk330lc

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Re: WARNING- SuperPerformance Powder
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2012, 01:28:24 PM »
 :o  Scary   Please buy a few Manuals and read them.  Please only use Published Data from Either the Bullet maker or Powder maker. Be sure it's data for the particular Caliber you're loading for and the bullet is of same weight and design.
Is it really worth getting hurt over or even worse being Killed?  Please be safe!
If I'm unsure of a particular combo my first stop is here. Chances are someone will know or has contacted the Manufacture to find out.  My second stop is calling the Manufacture.  They will always help you.  just my thought.
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