do we tend to "scope too much"?

[ironglow]

  I recently bought a new Ruger American in .308 Win.  I got it specifically for deer/black bear season..  In my hunting area it is hilly to mountainous, mostly wooded or brushy and the fields are not large.  300 yard shots are very rare and most of mine have been collected at under 100 yards.
  I plan on scoping this rifle with a low-power, fixed scope  from 2.5X to 4X, since I like the KISS idea (keep it simple) and I have enough predator & varmint rifles.. this rifle will be dedicated to big game.
  Which comes to the question..under these eastern woodlands conditions, I think we are too inclined to "over-scope" our rifles.
  What are your thoughts on that?

[Dave in WV]

IMHO a 4x would be perfect. I would have put a 4x Leupold on my M70 30-06 but the tube is so short it's a tight squeeze to mount without either leaning into the scope or using extention rings. I've got a 6x42 Leupold on it and it's a good fit and works well for the same type of terain. Too much magnification? Maybe but it works for me.

[hillbill]

i like a 3x9 for hunting.a 4x12 works well for me also.my shots can range from 25 yrds to 250 or so.its what works for my eyes.on 3 or 4 power i can easily find targets in low light and at close range,if a animal is at close range and undisturbed i may crank up the power to see exactly which 2 hairs i want to place my bullet between.but its really not necessary at all. id prob kill just as many deer with a 4x scope. the main thing for me is to have scope adjusted in the rings and fit of the gun good so that when i put gun to my shoulder i dont have to hunt around for my target.that right there is what gives some higher power scopes a bad rep.
 
if your looking at a target, shoulder gun and the scope just naturally centers on the target then everything is correct. if you have to hunt around and wiggle around then either that gun does not fit you or your scope is not adjusted in the rings correctly. just my opinion of course.

[BUGEYE]

my choice for that rifle and the area you describe would be a good receiver sight with a fine gold bead.
my weirdo tastes says that a scope ruins the lines of beautiful rifles.
so my answer to your question is yes

[hillbill]

my choice for that rifle and the area you describe would be a good receiver sight with a fine gold bead.
my weirdo tastes says that a scope ruins the lines of beautiful rifles.
so my answer to your question is yes

your not a weirdo. if my eyes were good enuf to shoot a softball at 150 yrds with any kind of irons, i would not even own a scope.

[ironglow]

I can't argue with Bugeye or hillbill and i hunted with mostly irons for my first 45 years..but now my old eyes need a glass assist.

[Ranger99]

i do believe most folks use too much scope.
but it's my opinion that it's done because
of economic reasons, like myself.
a quality 3x9 (the most popular) scope
can be had at a considerably less cost
than a fixed-power scope of the same
quality. i've yet to figure that out, seems
to me it should be at a lesser price because
of fewer parts, etc. if i could purchase a fixed
4 power scope at a lesser price than a variable
scope of the same grade, i would do that, and
wouldn't feel handicapped using it.
i almost never move my scopes from 3 or 4
power anyway.


fixed power scopes are also way harder to come
across. i can't think of any local place that
carries any.  (in this area anyway)

[ironglow]

  Yes Ranger;
   Seems crazy that a 3X9 would be less expensive than a 4X...but I expect it is because of the "mass production" involved with 3X9 in comparison with straight powers.

[BUGEYE]

I can't argue with Bugeye or hillbill and i hunted with mostly irons for my first 45 years..but now my old eyes need a glass assist.

yeah, open irons are unusable for me too.  but I can still use a peep.

[Bigeasy]

On a side note, I have noticed that here in PA, a lot of the guys I have talked with who used to use iron sights have gone to scopes since the implementation of minimum antler size (most of the state is 3 points on one side, some areas 4) as an aid to antler point verification.
 
Except for varmint and long range specialty rifles, most of my hunting rifles wear 1x5, 2x7, and a few 3x9 scopes, all usually set to 3x or so while hunting.
 
Larry

[Lloyd Smale]

yes and no. Is a 12x scope needed on a deer rifle. Well no. Does it maybe sometimes help? yes. Does it hurt anything? No, as long as its used properly. Im usually the first to come out and say a 3x9 is all you need. Even a 2x7 or a straight 4x will get you by. If you are consistantly shooting deer out past 350 a bit more magnification is helpfull. that is IF you have a solid rest and time to place a shot precisely and you shouldnt be shooting deer at that range unless you do. I was out last night crop damage shooting and shot 3 does. Rifle was my cdl 257wby. Its got a vx2 4x12 leupold on it. First deer was out at a bit over 400 and i cranked it up to 12 and made the shot. Never though to turn it down. Second deer came in at 50 yards. real rare for where we hunt. I shot it and never even thought to change the power on the scope and sure didnt have a lightbulb go off in my head that said i had to much power cranked into it. the third was about 250 and it did fine. Could i have made all three shots with a 3x9? Sure, ive done it hundreds of times. could i have done it with a 4x. Probably but id bet that lightbulb would have went off in my head with the 400 yard shot at least. I like to scope a gun for what it mostly will be used for. My long range rifles get mostly 3x9s and some 4x12s My whitetail woods hunting guns i use in normal deer season mostly wear 1x4s  2x7s or straingt 4x. Shots then dont usualy come much over 200 and even over a 100 are rare. Calibers are differnt too. Crop damage shooting sees me with flat shooting mags for the most part. Normal deer season 250s 257 roberts and 308 class rifles are used the most and i sure wouldnt want a giant 4x12 on one of them. Bottom line is even on a long range gun id rather have a quality 2x7 on it then a cheap 4x12.

[Swampman]

I see no reason to choose anything other than a 2-7X33 or a 3-9X40 on a deer rifle.  The new Leupold VX-2 3-9X40 weighs 10.5 oz.  The VX-2 2-7X33 weighs even less.

[pastorp]

IMO the long discontiuned Leupold M8 3X, long tube riflescope is about perfect for most of my hunting.    If I need more magnification I go to a Leupold 6x42 riflescope. But almost all my rifles wear the 3x scope. One reason I like them is the retucle and sight picture is always the same. And I'm not fiddeling around with the scope settings when I should be watching for game. 

I have one friend that broke scopes regulary until I put a older straight 4x scope on his current deer gun. Nothing to fiddle with so he quit constantly playing with the power setting. He is a comercial fisherman & has powerfull hands developed by a lifetime of pickinmg fish out of his net. Before I mounted his new scope we had to replace his scope annually.  He's happy & so am I.

Regards,

[Ladobe]

Depends on where you live, what your intened uses will be to me.   Here in the wide open spaces of the west shots are commonly long for any kind of hunting, extremely long for some types.   So scopes become a given even for young eyes.   In my case age made scopes the only choice when iron sights are blurred wavy gravy a few years ago.    Even in close dark quarters I'd want a bright 1X or 2X scope, or would just use one of my revolvers shot so much they just have to be pointed.

[wmdron]

My deer rifles both wear Leupold 3x9x40's and I have been happy with them. I also hunt eastern woodlands and like to have a little extra magnification "just in case". However,  I rarely use above 3x or 4x, so a fixed 4x  would probably work fine for me. I've debated the fixed power vs variable many times in stores but always seem to come out with the variable.  I try to pick a scope to match the use, but at times I have been known to get a little carried away.

[tobster]

In my opinion anything a 3-9 will do a 2-7 will do as well, plus a  smaller objective lens means they can be mounted a bit lower and they are usually a bit more compact.

[trotterlg]

Most hunting guns are over scoped today.  I use a 1.5 to 4.5 Swift on a Savage 24 30-30 over 20 gauge, it does nothing best but everything good enough.  Now on a Coyote gun it may be a different story, but for deer or bear in the woods anything more is a waste.  Larry

[gr8ful]

Yes we do! Because we like to see what we are shooting at!  Unless you are running dogs in a Georgia Swamp or like situation most of us have ample opportunity to look over our quarry and adjust our optics to suit our situation.  This lends itself to using the most magnification possible "after all 'aim small miss small'" but it ain't really nesssary!  Practice with your rifle is far more important!

[Dave in WV]

A scope is just an optical sight. We need them to not fog, to provide a clear enough image to be able to see the target/game, and hold zero. Beyond that it's personal choice and picking nits. A firearm with no sights is just as accurate as one with sights. Our ability to achieve accuracy needs sights. With cheap optics most folks need more magnification to see as well as with better optics with less magnification. I've found using better optics I can get better overall results in the field with less magnification. For sighting in at the bench I use a spotter. YMMV

[BUGEYE]

IG, if ya want to try a really fast sight, I've got a bushnell red-dot I can send ya.  just pay postage.

[cwlongshot]

I can tell you YES with difinity!

Working for almost thirty years behind counters full and part time I mount and sell 10x 3-9 scopes over the rest! Next in popularity are the 4-12 & 6-18. Then they MUST be 50MM or bigger!!! Like it makes a difference, if they only knew better optics in 32/33mm size will transmit MOrE light than a cheap or many mid quality scopes can form 50+ MM objectives.
 GONE are the days when people bought a 4x and called it good. Actually fixed power in general are very slow sellers.
I do my best to show the attributes of a quality 1-4 & 2-7 scope, most feel they need more. 

Personally I own more 2-7 scopes than any other. Of those 99% are VXII 2-7-33  with 3-4 1-4-20 Leupys. I do have three 3-9 because my beloved Mauser's need a longer tube or offsets and offsets make for a higher mount...
I have to admit, I do have two 4-12's, and one 6-18 variable. The 4-12's are on rimfires and the 6-18 on my 17 Hornet Varmint rifles. Needed, nope but its better to show the red mist.

Like BigEasy prefer 2-7 scopes on my hunting guns. They offer clear brite optics with plenty of power and light weight for the ranges I "should be" shooting at. I keep them on 3X 99% of the time.

CW

[drdougrx]

I'm using Leupis as well....2x7, 3.5x10 or 4x12.  I generally or always kkep them on the lowest power setting.  I use the highest power at the range though there have been times while hunting that I've used or wish I'd had higher powers to use.  There was that pronghorn in Montana and I had my 270 with a 2x7...I did get him...but it would have been easier with a few more power......

[Swampman]

I prefer the 3-9X40s because they are the best value.  A 3-9 is always a 3X but a 3X will never be a 9X.

[Empty Quiver]

I took my hunting rigs to the range this morning. The subject is very fresh in my mind. I have a couple 3-9's and a 1.5-5 Leupolds. At 200yd's all three guns are pretty much shooting the same, the scope meaning nothing. I always ask myself this time of year why I don't own another of the 1.5-5 scopes.
 
The higher magnification will make me apprehensive about pulling the trigger as it is magnifying my shaking. Which in turn causes a tendency to jerk the trigger. I have to remind myself to not go stupid with the higher magnification, or I'll mess up.

[charles p]

Just get a 3X9 or something similar.  You'll find you will use the lowest power all the time, but When you have a good rest at a standing target, the 9 power will become your friend.  I hunt from fixed elevated stands.  Even at 100yds, I jack up the power on standing whitetails.  Sometimes I shoot them in the head oe between their eyes.  I only shoot doe deer and leave the bucks for the children.  I use quality glass for scopes and binoculars. 

[twoshooter]

Who still makes fixed power scopes ? I use the Simmons Master/Pro Diamond on a couple of my Handi rifles, the fixed 4X shotgun scopes, and I have a 6X Leupold on a Whelan. I have an old Bausch & Lomb 4X with a post & crosshair on an original 444 Marlin that I love. I would love to find a decent fixed power scope, but unless you can afford a Zeiss or something ridiculous, which I cannot, I don't see any. I would like to find something like a 6X with multiple aim points like a BDC type reticle. I also wish they made the German #3 reticle in some of the reasonable priced scopes, or a post /crosshair like the old B&L. It seems like 3X9's are the only thing, and duplex reticles  are about it also. I just looked through a couple of national sellers fall hunting fliers, this is about it.

[ironglow]

Twoshooter;
  Lots of fixed power scopes available:
        http://www.natchezss.com/optics.cfm?contentId=opticsType&opticsType=9&opticsClass=1&category=20

[Dave in WV]

Leupold makes 2.5x, 3x, 4x, 6x (36mm & 42mm), and 12x scopes.

[cwlongshot]

Who still makes fixed power scopes ? I use the Simmons Master/Pro Diamond on a couple of my Handi rifles, the fixed 4X shotgun scopes, and I have a 6X Leupold on a Whelan. I have an old Bausch & Lomb 4X with a post & crosshair on an original 444 Marlin that I love. I would love to find a decent fixed power scope, but unless you can afford a Zeiss or something ridiculous, which I cannot, I don't see any. I would like to find something like a 6X with multiple aim points like a BDC type reticle. I also wish they made the German #3 reticle in some of the reasonable priced scopes, or a post /crosshair like the old B&L. It seems like 3X9's are the only thing, and duplex reticles  are about it also. I just looked through a couple of national sellers fall hunting fliers, this is about it.

Like Dave said, Leupold still does and they are some nice ones too. Best part of these is they are popular and there is a ton of them out there used!!  I LOVE the little 2 3/4X scope its as small as most pistol scopes! The 1x4 and 1.5x5 Leupolds are only a bit larger altho varaibles. Once you get to the 4X your into a full sized scope.

Burris used to make a wonderful line of compact scopes. I have three and they are nice all are real compact size altho heavy in weight. They are only a bit bigger than that 2 3/4X Leupy and avalible in 4x 6x and 1x5 2x7 & 3x9 sizes. BUT you gotta find them as they are not avalible.

As for reticules, Leupold is availble in a couple post and cross hair styles as was Burris. The Burris is more traditional US style while the Leupold is european post styled.

The little Simmons you mention has a strong following too its nice trim and light with lits of eye relief.

I also just picked up a Nikon Buckmark 1X thats same size as my Leupy 2 3/4X but nice and clear as the day!!

I like the fixed powers, but my favorite is the 2x7x33 Matte Leupold. I must have close to a dozen of them!!

CW

[mechanic]

Yep, no doubt people overscope.  A friend recently brought by his slug gun to show me, he had just installed a 4x16 scope!  Must be hard to see a deer at slug gun ranges these days.
 
I have been "down scoping" lately.  My favorite is a 2x7 Leupold my boss gave me because it wasn't enough scope for him.  So far it has remained on 2x.
 
Ben