Author Topic: 1st cannon - new video 10-20-12 (Read 2610 times)

silicon wolverine · « **on:** September 16, 2012, 05:58:50 PM »

hi all!

i happened into a 4.75" diameter tractor axle at work (im a parts salesman for John Deere) and i snagged it to take home and make a small cannon out of.

my plans are for a "shooter" gun, not historically styled.

the donor axle is high quality chome-moly steel that is surface hardened in teh bearing areas, but normal steel once you get into it 1/16-1/8 inch. i did most of the speration cutting with a hacksaw after cutting through the surface hardening with a carbide bit.

this is after cutting off the wastage on both ends that was machined to fit the tractor, and machining a band to allow for my turning support.

ive got the bore started with a 1" bit but broke my tailstock chuck in teh process. A new one is on the way.

i plan on building an oak naval style carraige (small wooden wheel style)

now my questions are:

I planned on a 1.25" projectile size to give me plenty of wall thickness for safety. how big do i need ot turn the bore? i was told .100 over projectile dia to allow for fouling etc.

do i need a powder chamber (like a mortar), or can i leave the bottom of the bore "natural"?

how much powder for a 1.25" steel ball projectile?

can i use pyrodex and other "substitutes"? real BP is very hard to get in my locale.

Im not a highly skilled machinist, more of a learn as you go kinda guy. my lathe is from 1895 (modernized drive system) in case you were wondering. this is one of those "i wonder if i can do that?" kinda projects.

thanks for any advice!

SW

GGaskill · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2012, 07:41:25 PM »

Questions first, recommendations later. You say 1.25" shot--do you have a source of 1.25" shot or a 1.25" drill?

How long is the piece of axle?

You need only 2.5% windage (bore greater than shot diameter) so 1.28" diameter would be OK. I would pilot drill the bore with a long 3/8" drill rather than starting with the big one.

We all started out as learn as we go machinists. You can ask questions first or break something and ask questions later. We all have done both.

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2012, 07:54:53 PM »

Quote from: silicon wolverine on September 16, 2012, 05:58:50 PM

hi all!

Welcome to our boards

Quote

i happened into a 4.75" diameter tractor axle at work (im a parts salesman for John Deere) and i snagged it to take home and make a small cannon out of.

my plans are for a "shooter" gun, not historically styled.

Why not historically styled. It does not have to be detail scaled. Just find an old design and make your gun resemble it. You are going to all this work to to build a gun, give it a touch of class instead of something Bubba Leroy whipped up while his buddy held his beer. Make something you can be proud of, that is made to be safe and something you can pass on in the future.

Quote

the donor axle is high quality chome-moly steel that is surface hardened in teh bearing areas, but normal steel once you get into it 1/16-1/8 inch. i did most of the speration cutting with a hacksaw after cutting through the surface hardening with a carbide bit.

You should find out what kind of steel it is. You will need to add trunnions and may have to weld them for safety sake.

Quote

ive got the bore started with a 1" bit but broke my tailstock chuck in teh process. A new one is on the way.

Start with a small pilot hole say 1/2 inch and work you way up up in size, you will find the larger bits will drill easier.

Quote

now my questions are:

I planned on a 1.25" projectile size to give me plenty of wall thickness for safety. how big do i need ot turn the bore? i was told .100 over projectile dia to allow for fouling etc.

do i need a powder chamber (like a mortar), or can i leave the bottom of the bore "natural"?

Divide the diameter of your barrel over the area of the chamber by 3 that is the maximum recommended bore diameter. The 4.75 inch piece you have as long as you didn't make it smaller will support a 1.59 inch bore.

What you need to do is identify what you are going use for a projectile first then bore to size. Suggested windage is 1/40 of bore diameter. A 1.59 bore needs a projectile that is 1.54 inches in diameter and no more.

Quote

how much powder for a 1.25" steel ball projectile?

can i use pyrodex and other "substitutes"? real BP is very hard to get in my locale.

Go to the top of our board and look for the safe loads sticky post. You will find a chart for guns under 2 inch bore. Find the load there. That is you maximum load. Reduce substantially and start shooting, working up a little at a time until find a good load for your gun.

No do not use the substitutes, they are all really smokeless powders. There are some here who say they they can make Pyrodex work in cannons. The longest shot I ever made with pyrodex is about 10 feet, including roll out. Pyrodex requires resistance in order to work properly. If you have proper windage you should not have sufficient resistance for Pyrodex to work.

I know of very few places that are difficult to get black powder, it's all in knowing where to look. The simplest and easiest way for most to get back powder is to ordered for a powder distributor. There are several listed in the Cannon links sticky at the top of the forum.. Most will ship a small quantity of 5 lbs via UPS.

Quote

Im not a highly skilled machinist, more of a learn as you go kinda guy. my lathe is from 1895 (modernized drive system) in case you were wondering. this is one of those "i wonder if i can do that?" kinda projects.

thanks for any advice!

SW

We have all levels of skill here, from none, to some, to a great deal. We are always willing to share if you ask and listen.

Yes you can do this project! Go slow and take your time...make some to that you can be pround of.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2012, 01:09:15 AM »

My first mortar was beer-can caliber, of hot rolled steel.
Wore out a bit getting the hard scale off it.

I bored it with a 3/4 inch bit - didn't have a boring bar. Just clamped it in the tool post.
That was back in '74-75.

I'll bring it to the 5AANRVM&CS.

subdjoe · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2012, 07:20:21 AM »

Welcome aboard. Others have given you good advice on the technical aspects.

You don't say where you are, but you can order black powder from several places. Check in the stickies for suppliers. Call, they will mail, fax, or email you forms. Fill them out, send them back. You can order up to 50 pounds at a time, get it delivered right to your door in most places. No need to accept substitutes.

smokemjoe · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2012, 10:29:29 AM »

I worked for Deeres in the shop, They had huge heat treating shops, Some of the steel is very hard.They really watched the rockwell on crital things. Hope this. go slow and alot of oil for cutting. Joe

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2012, 12:40:58 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on September 16, 2012, 07:41:25 PM

Questions first, recommendations later. You say 1.25" shot--do you have a source of 1.25" shot or a 1.25" drill?

How long is the piece of axle?

You need only 2.5% windage (bore greater than shot diameter) so 1.28" diameter would be OK. I would pilot drill the bore with a long 3/8" drill rather than starting with the big one.

We all started out as learn as we go machinists. You can ask questions first or break something and ask questions later. We all have done both.

my planned shot was plain steel ball bearings avilable in dozens of places on the net for around 3-4$ each. i can also turn zinc or aluminum projos as well.

total useable length is about 20" or so, havent measured exactly yet.

Quote from: Cat Whisperer on September 17, 2012, 01:09:15 AM

I bored it with a 3/4 inch bit - didn't have a boring bar. Just clamped it in the tool post.
That was back in '74-75.

how did you bore bigger than the bit? just offset it?

ETA - i live in north central SD and i have to drive a minimum of 2 - 2 1/2 hrs to buy any "real" blackpowder. shipping is hienous out here as well. if i order 10 lbs of regular gunpowder for my gunshop, the freight and hazmat can top 75$ for ten pounds!

SW

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2012, 02:51:06 PM »

Yup, just clamped the 3/4" bit in the tool post and offset it.
Came in from several angles to give a tapered cone (sort of) for the powder chamber.

You might want to consider a spade drill. Bits come in a variety of sizes and can easily be resharpened or shaped (rounded corners - for bottoming).

Be glad to look through my inventory to see what I have that would be long enough.
You MIGHT be able to drill in one pass; then clean up with a bit a FEW thousandths larger. (Spade drills do not work well with a pilot hole.)

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #8 on:** September 19, 2012, 04:07:21 PM »

im thinking ill start at 1" (biggest bit i can get easily) and build a long boring bar out of grade 8 keystock and a carbide cutter. Ive got a few carbides from my old brake lathe floating around i can mod onto a bar.

SW

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2012, 02:00:18 AM »

How deep do you need to bore?

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2012, 04:02:12 PM »

im thinking 10-12" total.

started boring tonite.

SW

onegreatshot · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2012, 06:37:43 AM »

For your B/P needs go to the sticky and look up Powder Inc.. They are very good on prices, sell in 5 lb increments and the hazmat fee is included in the price. Goex approx 15.00 a lb.

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2012, 10:22:55 AM »

bored as deep as a i can without my extension thats on backorder :-/

im debating staying at 1" its alot easier to find 1" projectiles and they are ALOT cheaper than 1.25" when you do.

what teh preferred method of ignition? ive got some odd sideplates and hammers floating around the shop i could fab ub into a cap type ignition system. What do you guys think? i read about some systems that use blank 22 shells made for concrete mailguns for ignition.

also what equipment do i need to have to fire? i know i need a worm, rammer and water brush/sponge, but what else do i need? I will be building most of this myself so if you can post pics of what i need to build it would be appreciated.

SW

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #13 on:** September 23, 2012, 11:31:19 AM »

Using a fuse is SIMPLE.
Disadvantage is that once the fuse is lit, and something happens downrange in your sector of fire ....

GGaskill · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2012, 11:37:18 AM »

You might give Fox Industries a call and see what is available in overruns, then bore to that size.

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #15 on:** September 26, 2012, 03:36:48 PM »

can the trunnion posts for the carraige just be welded on to teh barrel, or do they need to be inset and welded?

also i was reading the sticky about loads, and was a bit confused. it says 2 oz per inch of bore, but that would be almost 470 grs for a 1" bore. the line chart showed a shade over 200 grs max for a 1" bore, or am i reading something wrong?

SW

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #16 on:** September 26, 2012, 05:14:18 PM »

Quote from: silicon wolverine on September 23, 2012, 10:22:55 AM

what teh preferred method of ignition?

I use a fast burning fuse that is so fast its is like using a quill or a flash pan. You can get it from cannonfuse.com in different speeds. It's the cheapest easiest way to have a sure fire fast ignition. Just don't forget what it is and leave it laying around where someone could make m80s with it.

GGaskill · « **Reply #17 on:** September 27, 2012, 02:02:40 PM »

It says 2 oz per inch of bore ...

That is for 2" bore/chamber and greater. Use the graph for under 2" bore/chamber.

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #18 on:** September 30, 2012, 04:09:46 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on September 27, 2012, 02:02:40 PM

It says 2 oz per inch of bore ...

That is for 2" bore/chamber and greater. Use the graph for under 2" bore/chamber.

ah, K. thanks for teh clarification!

SW

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2012, 05:21:30 PM »

barrel is almost finished. Just a bit of touch up and some high temp paint left.

SW

Frank46 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2012, 05:32:37 PM »

Well looks like someone has been busy. From what I see plenty of metal all the way around and should be no worries about strength issues. Nicely done. Frank

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2012, 01:53:41 AM »

thanks! I went with a 1" bore to give me plenty of extra material. safety first.

SW

Double D · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2012, 10:26:30 AM »

How are you going to profile it with the trunnions welded in place?

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #23 on:** October 14, 2012, 05:30:46 PM »

well i started the afternoon with a pile of lumber, some all-thread, assorted hardware and a vision. its not ready to fire yet, but its close.

basic blocks of carragie cut

drilling and cutting all-thread and bolting together

measuring anf cutting the trunnion slots, and setup for cutting the top strap plates.

and there she is. not done but getting closer.

also had time to knock togehter my rammer and swab.

SW

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #24 on:** October 20, 2012, 08:29:29 AM »

IT LIVES!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djKTu09Pw6k

SW

onegreatshot · « **Reply #25 on:** October 20, 2012, 09:54:46 AM »

Looks like 300 grs. is a good load

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #26 on:** October 20, 2012, 11:43:50 AM »

next trip out im ging to try a 400 gr load just to see what itdoes. 300 is a good solid wallop.
given the overly thick walls i could probably whoop it up quite a bit if i desired to. at about 4$ a shot its already expensive enough
SW

Frank46 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 20, 2012, 06:53:16 PM »

I like it very much. Saw your video and nothing moved very much if at all. Can I ask where you got the drill extension and what it set you back?. Frank

silicon wolverine · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2012, 02:26:34 AM »

Quote from: Frank46 on October 20, 2012, 06:53:16 PM

I like it very much. Saw your video and nothing moved very much if at all. Can I ask where you got the drill extension and what it set you back?. Frank

it came from www.traditionalwoodworker.com IIRC. its actually made for large commercial forstner wood bits, but works just as well with HSS. tht was the only place i could find a extension wth a 1/2" shank. mine was abotu 40$ with shippng.

SW

Frank46 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 21, 2012, 05:07:43 PM »

SW, thanks I'll leep that one for when I have to drill some deep holes. Much appreciated. Frank