Author Topic: Newbie Needing Some Pointers (Read 1690 times)

theblackcloud · « **on:** September 17, 2012, 12:12:33 PM »

i got the T/C bone collector just after last years deer hunt, and finally have a chance to shoot it for the first time next weekend. i'm new to the sport, but not new to hunting by any means. (thus why i never have time to shoot this gun)
mind you, that nobody that i know muzzleloads, so i am really on my own here. i plan on using pellets, and picked up the triple 7 50/50's. winchester triple 7 primers, and powerbelt platinum 300 grain bullets.
what i'm having the hardest issue with, is deciding how much powder i should use. some say 2 pellets, others say 3. i will be using this mostly for whitetail, and sometimes for bear.
if you have this gun, what combo is shooting well for you? like i said, i'm new to this and could really use some pointers before i go out saturday

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2012, 01:07:39 PM »

Welcome...
Some have had great luck with 3 pellets and swear by them, most would tell you that 2 is sufficient and will put down anything you care to shoot at without the extra recoil.
Try some saboted loads, T/C Shockwave Super Glides or Hornady SST's in 250 and 300 grains or one of the Hornady XTP's and I think you'll be pleased with the results. I tend to lean towards the 300 grain loads due to most of my shots being inside 75 yards and they've given me better accuracy.
Just another note, many guns shoot better slightly fouled, similiar to some centerfire rifles. I pop a 209 primer by itself before I load my gun to hunt; making sure the flashhole is clear after doing this and then load the gun.

theblackcloud · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2012, 02:24:13 PM »

yes, i highly doubt i will ever be shooting over 75 yards. the gun came with a few shock waves in 250 grain, so i will try them out. with 300 grains, what do you use, 2 or 3 pellets?

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2012, 03:15:41 PM »

I'm using 2 pellets regardless of the sabot size.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2012, 03:24:05 PM »

practice-practice-practice
repeat

theblackcloud · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM »

if i were to go with sabots over powerbelts, does this require more cleaning e.i between each shot?

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #6 on:** September 18, 2012, 06:16:22 AM »

Quote from: theblackcloud on September 17, 2012, 04:12:01 PM

if i were to go with sabots over powerbelts, does this require more cleaning e.i between each shot?

I use 2 pellets, go with 3 pellets if you like to punish your self.

Really I've found 2 pellets more than sufficient.

When using sabots you don't have to clean between each shot, I've found that you might have to use a spit patch to clean the bore out, after five shots, to make loading the next shot easier.
I've never used the power belts, but a friend of mine used them, and he said they didn't perform too well on game (deer), the heads broke apart. I use the T/C Cheap Shots, .50 Cal. All-Lead 240grain, Hollow points, they come with the required sabot, and sell for $6.99 a pack of 20 in my area. They are really accurate, inexpensive, and most importantly work well on deer.

I've hunted for years with a Remington 700 in 7mm Mauser, and got into BP hunting about ten years ago, with a T/C Hawken. About 4 years ago, I purchased an in-line T/C Omega, and now have seriously gotten into BP hunting. I also own the H&R/NEF Huntsman & Sidekicks. All are great shooters, and hunting guns.

theblackcloud · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:14:13 AM »

thanks for the advice!! once i burn through my powerbelts, i'll try sabots. i had heard folks say that sabots have a disadvantage because of the diameter. and that one wasn't getting the most out of their 50 cal shooting a 45 cal sabot. i want what works, like i said, i'm new to this, and i'm sure i bought some things that i will never need, or nicer than i would ever need. not saying i was taken advantage of, but flowers and a phone call the next would have been nice

theblackcloud · « **Reply #8 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:15:53 AM »

and, at 1/4 the cost of powerbelts..... i wouldn't feel so bad buring through them at the range

Ranger99 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:30:56 AM »

until you find what works good for
your own self, you'll end up with
some things you don't like, or that
don't work so great for you.
we all do.
keep at it and you'll get it sorted
out.
good luck

theblackcloud · « **Reply #10 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:35:26 AM »

thanks ranger. after next saturday afternoon, (first time shooting it) i'm sure i'll understand alot more as well.

theblackcloud · « **Reply #11 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:43:18 AM »

when i was at gander earlier today, i saw some muzzle covers. the looked like condoms, but for your gun. are these really needed for wet weather?

flintlock · « **Reply #12 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:46:28 AM »

Start with 2 pellets and the PowerBelts and see what she does...

As you gain experience you will see the advantage of saboted bullets and loose powder...

You can walk into any good gunstore and buy either .430 or .451 diameter pistol bullets in bulk...Any between 240-300grs in hollow point work for deer...I use the Hornady 300gr XTP in .430 diameter and the plain green Harvester sabots...If I were using .451 diameter bullets the correct size sabots would be the black ones, unless one of the crushed rib...My point being, you can tailor the projectile to the purpose...

On loose powder, you are handloading each shot...By being able to adjust your charge you will get maximum accuracy...

I shoot 80grs of Goex FFF black powder behind that 300gr Hornady bullet and it is plenty on whitetails and plenty flat to ethically take shots out to 150 yards...

Frankly many of the guys advocating 3 pellets are full of it...Will the guns shoot it, sure...Will you be able to have a workable group??? I'd bet no and frankly, it's not needed...Remember the 45/70, a 405gr, .45 caliber bullet launched by 70grs FF black powder...Many, many buffalo were killed with this round...

Ranger99 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:48:53 AM »

you can do the same thing with handiwrap
and a rubber band and you probably already
have that at home.
if it's just a drizzle, i don't bother with that.
we just carry muzzle down.
we have been hog hunting in a full bore
downpour and we wrapped the muzzle like
you're saying, and a turn or two of handiwrap
over the lock area because we use trad. sidelocks.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:50:45 AM »

the bags from the dry cleaners work real
good for that too.

theblackcloud · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2012, 11:58:02 AM »

okay, well i won't run out and spend money then, i figured a home remedy would work...
and i now plan on running 100 grains instead of 150. i broke the collar bone in my shooting shoulder 5 years ago, and i'm sure it will appreciate it as well.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2012, 12:10:29 PM »

i don't have an inline, so i can't make
too authoritative suggestions on loads,
but you may want to start light, and work up
until you get used to the feel of your rifle
and the loading procedure, etc.

way back when, i used to load 90 & 100 grains
for everything. now i mostly use 70-80 grain
loads for all excepting when when specifically
hunting hogs.

just a thought

theblackcloud · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2012, 12:18:40 PM »

well i also won't ever take a shot over 100 yards. its not that i don't feel capable, but its so thick where i hunt, that even when i sit in a "clearing" my longest shot will be 50 yards. thus, i don't need the bullet to travel 200 yards. i'd rather it be a bit slower, and have more knock down, than pass cleanly and not mushroom. i've already decided that if i DO enjoy blackpowder hunting, that i want to buy a traditions kit and finish it myself. (construction is my trade) once that time comes, i'll be asking more questions. (don't kill me)
with not knowing a single person that is involved with this sport, i'm really on my own, minus you guys.
also, i just found out where i'm shooting saturday, is having a blackpowder shooting competition. (no i'm not entering) but atleast if i get in a pinch, somebody should be able to help me out.

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2012, 01:37:18 PM »

Flintlock is right, loose powder of whatever variety you choose will allow you to achieve the best groups, I found that 110 grns of T7 was the sweet spot in several of my guns. Pellets were just more convenient so I finally switched about 3 years ago, while still maintaining good hunting accuracy.
In-lines use hotter 209 ignition and sabots or powerbelts tend to seal tighter so covering the muzzle is generally not required unless you're in a full downpour. Keeping the muzzle pointed down is the best suggestion. Of greater concern would be bringing your loaded muzzleloader into a heated house or cabin for the night after being in freezing temperatures outside. If I'm hunting day after day, I'll leave my loaded muzzleloader outside in a vehicle or unheated shed so it doesn't form condensation from the drastic change in temps.

theblackcloud · « **Reply #19 on:** September 19, 2012, 11:11:44 AM »

does condensation effect pellets just as much as loose powder? i assume it would.
my father is now thinking about getting into the sport too. (i'm 27, tho i spell and ask questions like a 16yr old)
i can't express in words how excited i am to go shoot this thing

flintlock · « **Reply #20 on:** September 19, 2012, 01:53:45 PM »

I don't know why you think condensation affects loose powder more than pellets...Are you talking about storage??? If so, I've been using real black powder since the mid-70s, before Pyrodex came out...I've had no problems although there are some common sense things I do...First I store in a cool,dry place (what a shocker)...

Second, my guns stay outside in another building or in my truck tool box over night if loaded...Frankly it's actually better to unload after each hunt but mostt won't do that...

That being said, I have kept both flintlocks and my inline loaded for 4-5 months after the season and they all went off without a hitch when I went to the range...

Of course, during a hunting situation, they wouldn't have fired...

theblackcloud · « **Reply #21 on:** September 19, 2012, 04:29:03 PM »

no, i'm saying that they both would be equally effected.
since i have the speed breech, would it be a good idea to just open it up and let the pellets slide out, and then replace them the next morning?

flintlock · « **Reply #22 on:** September 19, 2012, 04:47:34 PM »

I wouldn't worry about it unless you get caught in a pouring rain, then I'd unload and clean...

For years, I've taken a week off and gone down into eastern NC where I grew up and hunted the whole week...I unload and clean my gun if I have shot it or I get caught in the rain...We are able to keep our rifles outside in this situation and I have never had a problem with my Knight Disc...

With that gun, just remove the primer and screw in the second safety...If you can keep it in your garage or truck tool box, you'll have no problems...

Spirithawk · « **Reply #23 on:** September 19, 2012, 09:11:43 PM »

No two muzzleloaders will shoot the same. Not even if the same make and model. It pays to try differant loads of powder and bullet grain and type to see what your particular rifle likes best. However, since you say you have little time I'd go like this; for deer I'd go with a 245 gr powerbelt and 100 grains 777. For bear I'd go with your 300 gr Powerbelts and 150 gr 777. The reason for the lighter load on deer is that if Powerbelts are driven too fast and hard on deer they tend not to expand and you'll either lose deer or have a lot of tracking to do before you find them. As to the lighter bullet 100 grains tends to push it at the right speed for best expansion. That advice is based on experience not hearsay. Another piece of advice for new comers is this. Load your rifle with what ever load you decide to use. Then slide your ramrod in on top of it and mark the ramrod flush with the muzzle. That way when loading in the future a quick glance will asure you of two things, 1 that you loaded properly as to remembering to put your powder in before ramming a bullet home and 2 that the bullet is fully seated on the charge. That comes in valuable when having to reload after firing and your bore has residue making it a tad harder to seat the bullet, when reloading in cold weather or reloading in a hurry. Also, many think a magnum load of 3 50 grain pellets is necesary, it's not. It just leaves more unburned residue in your breech, kicks harder, costs you more, and is seldom as accurate as the lighter load. I only recomended it on bear because you may have to penetrate heavier bone. You shouldn't need to worry about moisture affecting your loaded firearm. If you have to store it where damp, and you're worried about it, simply put a fired primer on the breechplug which will seal that end and place a piece of electrical tape or a finger condom over the muzzle, though if loaded properly the powder is already sealed at that end by the bullet. I agree that leaving it outside in a constant temperature is best too. Now all that being said it's all just my opinion but I've been shooting black powder for 36 years so it's not just based on something I read somewhere.

theblackcloud · « **Reply #24 on:** September 20, 2012, 01:04:42 PM »

Sounds like a plan. turns out, the powerbelts i have are actually 270 grain. i called CVA because i wanted to double check the grain of the power belts they included in a starter kit i got at gander. after explaining to them that they were indeed the platinum ones, not the standard ones, i was put in touch with a "higher up" who said that "gander got a special kit, that included the platinums, and they were 270 grain, not the 295 like the copper ones that come in the kit are"

good to know. and which actually works out better for me from the sounds of it, since 250 seems to take the cake for whitetail hunting according to you guys.
so, come sat. i will load 100 grain powder, and a 270 power belt. i'm just anxious to see how much recoil this thing is gonna have

flintlock · « **Reply #25 on:** September 20, 2012, 04:18:08 PM »

With 80-100 grs of powder less than a high brass 12 gauge shell...

theblackcloud · « **Reply #26 on:** September 20, 2012, 07:07:26 PM »

Way to ruin the surprise!!!

theblackcloud · « **Reply #27 on:** September 22, 2012, 04:10:03 PM »

well just got home. was at the range today sighting in a few guns. my black powder shot really great, no issues. but i couldn't get a consitant group with the powerbelts like you guys said would happen. i had 4 dead on bullseyes once sighted in, then the next 4 were everywhere. i rarely "pull it" so i'm sure it wasn't me, so i'm going to try the cheap shots like suggested above. otherwise everything went great. i ran a spit swap every 3 shots just to try to be as close to clean as i could since when hunting i'd be hunting with a clean bore.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #28 on:** September 22, 2012, 04:21:52 PM »

I got realy good results with T/C Shockwaves.

theblackcloud · « **Reply #29 on:** September 22, 2012, 06:19:27 PM »

Quote from: Spirithawk on September 22, 2012, 04:21:52 PM

I got realy good results with T/C Shockwaves.

i have 5 that came with my gun. they aren't too bad in price either... i'll pick up a few things and try them.