Sawdust & Lead

[beng]

I have a quick question and to some, it may be dumb as dirt.  I am some what new to casting. (BPCR)   I was told what to get and how to do it.   First, I got the Lyman Blble, (4th edition) got my lead (30-1) got a good 535gr. mould (Brooks) use a dipper and the bullets most of the time come out good, but times not so good.  Was told to flux more.   Checking around (forums)  a lot are saying they are using "sawdust"   Can any one tell me how this is done?   Do you put it on top of the lead are do you stir it in or what.   How do you use the ladle with all this mess on top.  Can anyone help this dumb peace of dirt?     beng

[Hairy Chest]

I think the sawdust is used by those who use a bottom pour pot.  Just get a 2# Rowell ladle and flux with wax.  Best is Marvelux if you are mixing alloys. 

[Jason F]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_4_Fluxing.htm

Check this out for fluxing lead

[Ranger99]

learn sumthin new everyday.
first i've ever heard of that, of
course i readily admit i'm not a
full time caster and just do very few.
i've used that marvelux stuff and
beeswax before, but never heard of
sawdust. interesting to know.


i thought for sure it was a chain-yank

[Hairy Chest]

Ranger99:

've used that marvelux stuff and
beeswax before, but never heard of
sawdust. interesting to know.

The problem with the link povided is information overload IMO.  Most books are written to make money for the writers and they put out too much volume.  It's great bedtime reading, but at some point you have to choose. 

Which method?  If you are serious, do what I say exactly now.  Forget the wax.  Use Marvelux.

If you aren't serious, then read, read, sleep and read and know nothing.   

[mdi]

I use sawdust, just from my tablesaw. I dump a half handful on top of the melt and let it set for a while. I then stir with a wooden stick (paint stir stick type) briskly, and scrape the bottom and sides of the pot along the way. Let set for a few seconds and skim the stuff off the top. Ready to cast. I tried a bunch of different fluxes (lube, candles, beeswax, paraffin, charcoal, and commercial fluxes), but like plain old sawdust best.

[hillbill]

there are, im sure lots of things that work to flux with. i use dry sawdust, about a table spoon on my 10lb pot. then i use a tablespoon with slots cut in it with a die grinder to remove the flux.i use a ladle with my pot, with a bottom pour pot i think you can just leave the flux on top till the lead gets low in the pot.but ive never used a bottom pour pot. casting has a huge learning curve, a lot depends on mold temp and lead temp. keep at it yull get the hang of it!

[ventura guy]

Sawdust works great for me. So does corn cob and walnut tumbling media. I think once it turns to a charcoal like state is when it starts to clean the lead. Thats when I stir it around and it cleans the lead up good. Just be very very careful because it can catch on fire sometimes.  A teaspoon at a time works.

[ButlerFord45]

Ranger99:

've used that marvelux stuff and
beeswax before, but never heard of
sawdust. interesting to know.

The problem with the link povided is information overload IMO.  Most books are written to make money for the writers and they put out too much volume.  It's great bedtime reading, but at some point you have to choose. 

Which method?  If you are serious, do what I say exactly now.  Forget the wax.  Use Marvelux.

If you aren't serious, then read, read, sleep and read and know nothing.

So that you don't hurt yourself when your head hits the desk when you fall asleep from reading for 5 minutes, I'll try to make it simple for you:

Some of the commercial fluxes on the market today contain boric acid, borax, or other borate containing materials (e.g. Marvelux). These materials are fluxes in the true definition of the term since they melt to form a borate glass which entrains any oxidized materials and extracts these contaminants into the molten glass phase. These fluxes have the significant advantage of being smoke-free and odorless. They are also extremely effective at removing contaminants. This is because the borate anion binds all metal cations and extracts them into the molten borate glass. Unfortunately, this includes any oxidized tin, and so the alloy is depleted of this valuable component. The borate fluxes do nothing to reduce the oxidized tin, nor do they protect the melt from further oxidation.

From Rotometals:  Tin Price Per Pound  $16.49
From Brownells:  Marvelux 1/2 Pound on sale 4.99
Sawdust: yeah, well, you get the point.
as an aside, if you'd taken the time to check the link you were disparaging you'd have found that no one is  hawking a book, it is an article (albeit a good one) free for the clicking.  I've been using sawdust for the last ten years and found it to be the best kept secret of bullet casting.
 
 

[Hairy Chest]

Ranger99:

've used that marvelux stuff and
beeswax before, but never heard of
sawdust. interesting to know.

The problem with the link povided is information overload IMO.  Most books are written to make money for the writers and they put out too much volume.  It's great bedtime reading, but at some point you have to choose. 

Which method?  If you are serious, do what I say exactly now.  Forget the wax.  Use Marvelux.

If you aren't serious, then read, read, sleep and read and know nothing.

So that you don't hurt yourself when your head hits the desk when you fall asleep from reading for 5 minutes, I'll try to make it simple for you:

Some of the commercial fluxes on the market today contain boric acid, borax, or other borate containing materials (e.g. Marvelux). These materials are fluxes in the true definition of the term since they melt to form a borate glass which entrains any oxidized materials and extracts these contaminants into the molten glass phase. These fluxes have the significant advantage of being smoke-free and odorless. They are also extremely effective at removing contaminants. This is because the borate anion binds all metal cations and extracts them into the molten borate glass. Unfortunately, this includes any oxidized tin, and so the alloy is depleted of this valuable component. The borate fluxes do nothing to reduce the oxidized tin, nor do they protect the melt from further oxidation.

From Rotometals:  Tin Price Per Pound  $16.49
From Brownells:  Marvelux 1/2 Pound on sale 4.99
Sawdust: yeah, well, you get the point.
as an aside, if you'd taken the time to check the link you were disparaging you'd have found that no one is  hawking a book, it is an article (albeit a good one) free for the clicking.  I've been using sawdust for the last ten years and found it to be the best kept secret of bullet casting.

I like to use Marvelux because it mixes in Sb.  Sawdust doesn't even come close.  I use the Marvelux before adding any tin.  I rarely add tin because fill out is good.  If there is any need for tin and fillout, I add a little silver soldier.  If I just wanted to "clean up" the lead and didn't care about alloy and had some sawdust on the floor, I would use it.  My flux needs are greater though.  I want more than just the lead "clean up".  I use it to mix in alloys and have been very successful with Marvelux.  I have pictures I can show comparing sawdust, wax and Marvelux.  Maybe somebody has written more than a paragraph about dropping in the melt a multitude of recipes.  That creates a problem because now you have to choose.  Or you can do the best thing quickly, and do what I suggested.  Save time!  Put away the long articles which only catalog every answer but provide no single solution. 

[Lloyd Smale]

fluxing is probably the most overdone thing casters do. I flux my lead when i smelt something like wws. I use wax or used car oil. I then make it into clean ingots. I will then flux with wax at the start of a session and thats it. I wont even flux when i add new ingots to a pot. Ive done some experimenting and found that bullet weights are more consistant when i dont flux. Keep in mind when you flux your adding contaminants into your pot. Years ago i used marvelux some but found it caused my pots to corrode and left a crust on them that about took a pick ax to remove. even when smelting wws a guy doesnt need to overflux. Leave a few rubber stems in the pot and between that and all the oil thats usually on everything when you get them from a filling station they will about flux themselves. anything carbon based will work. Wood chips, wax, charcoal, oil, soap and most work just as well as anything.

[Hairy Chest]

fluxing is probably the most overdone thing casters do. I flux my lead when i smelt something like wws. I use wax or used car oil. I then make it into clean ingots. I will then flux with wax at the start of a session and thats it. I wont even flux when i add new ingots to a pot. Ive done some experimenting and found that bullet weights are more consistant when i dont flux. Keep in mind when you flux your adding contaminants into your pot. Years ago i used marvelux some but found it caused my pots to corrode and left a crust on them that about took a pick ax to remove. even when smelting wws a guy doesnt need to overflux. Leave a few rubber stems in the pot and between that and all the oil thats usually on everything when you get them from a filling station they will about flux themselves. anything carbon based will work. Wood chips, wax, charcoal, oil, soap and most work just as well as anything.

My pot looks great and I live in damp, damp weather.  All I can say is if you add antimony, remember what I said, or have bullets with varying weights and hardnesses like what you will get with non-Marvelux fluxing.