Author Topic: N Orleans wants to drug test tour guides, protesters say it violates 1st am.  (Read 628 times)

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Offline powderman

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Big controversy in Big Easy: Tour guides claim regs violate free speech  By Joshua Rhett Miller
Published September 23, 2012
FoxNews.com     
  •    Feb. 21, 2012: Revelers celebrate Mardi Gras in New Orleans' French Quarter, a popular spot for tour guides who say newly-enforced city regulations are trampling their First Amendment rights. (AP)
  Four New Orleans tour guides claim their First Amendment rights are being trampled by city regulations requiring them to pass a history exam, submit to drug testing and undergo a criminal background check.
 
City officials claim they have a strong interest in regulating guides to protect the cash-cow industry of tourism. But Matthew Miller, an attorney for the guides, told FoxNews.com his clients — who give tours of the city’s French Quarter, Garden District, cemeteries, restaurants, bars and other locations — practice a “constitutionally protected activity” no different from street performers or public preachers who talk about religion or politics.
“Speaking in the public forum is protected by the First Amendment,” Miller said Thursday. “And the First Amendment protects your right to speak regardless of what you know.”
 
New applicants must achieve a minimum score of 70 percent on a historical, cultural and sociological exam to become a licensed city tour guide, in addition to being at least 18 years of age and in possession of a driver’s license. They are also required to submit a urine sample for drug testing and to pass a FBI background check every two years to renew their license. Collectively, those tests cost applicants $80. Guides who fail to meet those requirements, like plaintiff Candance Kagan, are subject to fines of $300 per infraction and up to five months in jail.
“She found all of that totally offensive, so she refused to comply with the requirements,” Miller said of Kagan, who continues to give cemetery and culinary tours despite the expiration of her license.

 
“She found all of that totally offensive, so she refused to comply with the requirements."
- Attorney Matthew Miller
Kagan tried to renew her license, according to a criminal complaint, but her application was rejected when she declined to allow the city to keep her Social Security number on file.
Miller, of the Virginia-based Institute for Justice, said the four guides — who range in age from 57 to 82 — are New Orleans natives who give paid and free tours as a “labor of love” and just want to continue that task without submitting to drug testing or criminal background checks. And while it’s “perfectly conceivable” that customers want their guides to be knowledgeable, Miller said that’s something a free market will work out.
“You just can’t make people do that in order to talk about a place,” he said of undergoing a history exam. “And our clients pride themselves on being knowledgeable.”
 
U.S. District Judge Susie Morgan did not issue a ruling after hearing arguments in the case on Sept. 6. Miller said it’s “extremely hard to predict” when a ruling will come, adding that some courts take up to several months.
City attorney Sharonda Williams, who declined comment on Thursday, said during the Sept. 6 hearing that the regulations are public safety measures that also protect the city’s flourishing tourism industry.
 
“It’s the city’s position that we’re regulating business and conduct, not speech,” she told Morgan, according to The Associated Press.
Williams could not cite any examples in which a tour guide physically harmed a customer, but said “a lot of tourists come” to New Orleans and feel like they’ve been scammed by unqualified or unlicensed guides, many of whom charge $15 or $20 per person.
Other restrictions on the tours include a limit of 28 patrons, a 10 p.m. curfew and a 50-foot separation between other guides. Plaintiffs in the case do not challenge these restrictions, according to the criminal complaint.
 
In very narrow instances, Miller said, the First Amendment allows governmental entities to regulate speech, but it is the government’s burden to prove that those restrictions are narrowly tailored to serve a compelling interest.
 
“The judge asked the government, point blank, if it had any evidence showing a need to license tour guides, and the attorney for the city admitted that she did not,” Miller said.
Other cities that license tour guides include New York; Washington, D.C.; Charleston, S.C.; Williamsburg, Va., and Savannah, Ga.
New Orleans, meanwhile, currently licenses about 500 guides, Miller said, in addition to an untold number who flout regulations long on city law books but only recently enforced under Mayor Mitch Landrieu.
 
“They love their city,” Miller said. “They just want to be able to around and talk to people about their city without submitting to a drug test, submitting their fingerprints to the FBI and having to pass a history exam. I don’t know why the city is doing it.”
Kalila Smith, a licensed tour guide and general manager of Haunted History Tours, told FoxNews.com she thinks it’s “absolutely” necessary for all guides to be registered with the city.
“Otherwise you've got anybody off the street talking to people and taking their money,” Smith said Thursday. “You cannot just let anybody off the street take people around. I think it’s fair and reasonable.”
 
Smith said her company, which has been operating in New Orleans for more than 17 years, employs 20 licensed guides, many of whom would lose business to unlicensed guides if they were allowed to give free tours.
“I don’t think it’s fair to the public to have unlicensed guides around here,” she said. “Background checks and fingerprinting are absolutely necessary.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/big-controversy-in-big-easy-tour-guides-claim-regs-violate-free-speech/#ixzz27IYT2psf
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline yellowtail3

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Why is it the gov't business what a free man (or woman) smokes, eats, or drinks?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline m-g Willy

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Drug test American citizens is ok, but just don't ask an illegal for his papers !

Offline yellowtail3

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Drug test American citizens is ok, but just don't ask an illegal for his papers !
You really think so?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline m-g Willy

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Drug test American citizens is ok, but just don't ask an illegal for his papers !
You really think so?
That was sarcasm ;)

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Why is it the gov't business what a free man (or woman) smokes, eats, or drinks?
YT - You really think that is the same as drug testing tour guides?
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Empty Quiver

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I do believe a tourist has a reasonable expectation of professionalism and security when paying for one of these tours. NO La. is not Keokuk Ia. it has a long history of corruption, crime and just general strange behaviour.
 
Criminal background checks are a no brainer, drug testing a walking tour operator is certainly pushing the limits, intoxication on the job is unacceptable of course.  Remember though not all tours are walking types, there are busses, pedal carts, and horsedrawn carriages as well. The French Quarter is not the sort of place to be led around by a sketchy guide. Not every tour group consists of 12 people 5 of whom are off duty LEO or Recon Marines. Three college girls, drunk, scantily dressed, and wanting a fun time could find themselves the victim of a crime. 
 
I certainly believe a county or city permit with these criteria is a good point. I believe too that the city should promote using vendors who comply with all of these criteria. I also believe any legitimate tour operator would certainly want to hire guides who are licensed and promote this fact in the operation of their business. 
 
I was on one of these tours this spring. It was profesionally done with an excellant guide who was proactive about shooing away street people. He was good about deflecting panhandlers and pointing out a couple of scams that you could run across. Had he wanted to I believe he could enlist the "aid" of a pick pocket and supplement his income handsomely. To be honest I am surprised they are not already licensed.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline yellowtail3

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Why is it the gov't business what a free man (or woman) smokes, eats, or drinks?
YT - You really think that is the same as drug testing tour guides?
My posted question means just what it says. Do you have a point you're trying to make? If so, clarify?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline lakota

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This is one of those rare occasions when I agree with YT. As long as you dont show up for work shitfaced its really no one's business what you are smoking or drinking on your free time.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Why is it the gov't business what a free man (or woman) smokes, eats, or drinks?
YT - You really think that is the same as drug testing tour guides?
My posted question means just what it says. Do you have a point you're trying to make? If so, clarify?
My posted question is exactly the same as yours.  There is no hidden meaning in it.  I'm asking if you really feel that drug testing is the same as government dictating what a person eats, drinks and smokes.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline yellowtail3

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My posted question is exactly the same as yours.  There is no hidden meaning in it.  I'm asking if you really feel that drug testing is the same as government dictating what a person eats, drinks and smokes.
I feel like it's none of the gov't business what a citizen eats, drinks or smokes.  I don't like it.
I do understand that there's lots of peeps out there with careers largely dependent upon maintaing the War on (some) Drugs. It does a lot more good for them, than for the rest of us. People just give up freedom waaaaay too easily, esp if they don't think it affects them.
yet.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Okay.
Is drug testing the same as dictating what a person consumes? No - but it's meant to penalize (sometimes prosecute) those who consume things the gov't doesn't approve of. I don't like it.
I do understand that there's lots of peeps out there with careers and vested interest in maintaining the War on (some) Drugs. It does a lot more good for them, than for the rest of us.
 
Thanks, you answered my question.  I agree with you on the subject that government has no right to determine what a person smokes, eats or drinks.  But, and this is where we differ, I don't feel that a tour guide (in this case) should complain about drug testing, since it's in the best interest of the general public (tourist) to not have people who are high on drugs guiding them around an unfamiliar city. 
You do know that laws can be changed, so if you and enough people feel that drugs like, heroin, cocaine, crack, etc. are not harmful, you can petition your representative to change the law, and decriminalize them. I don't think your going to have much luck tho, and it's not just because of those with a "vested" interest in the war against drugs.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline yellowtail3

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Okay. Is drug testing the same as dictating what a person consumes? No - but it's meant to penalize (sometimes prosecute) those who consume things the gov't doesn't approve of. I don't like it.
I do understand that there's lots of peeps out there with careers and vested interest in maintaining the War on (some) Drugs. It does a lot more good for them, than for the rest of us.
Thanks, you answered my question.  I agree with you on the subject that government has no right to determine what a person smokes, eats or drinks.  But, and this is where we differ, I don't feel that a tour guide (in this case) should complain about drug testing, since it's in the best interest of the general public (tourist) to not have people who are high on drugs guiding them around an unfamiliar city. 
That's not at issue. If the job calls for not drinking or imbiding in other highs while on duty, fine. What you're advocating is no diff than if they come up with a test that can detect alchohol use for the previous three weeks... and then declare they'll not hire anyone who smokes cigs or drinks beer, evar, because they don't want tour guides drunk and smelling like tobacco... deliberately ignoring the incontrovertible fact that most who drink or smoke don't do it at work, if that's the job. Same can be said of most who smoke weed.

 
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline powderman

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OSR. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Empty Quiver

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Okay. Is drug testing the same as dictating what a person consumes? No - but it's meant to penalize (sometimes prosecute) those who consume things the gov't doesn't approve of. I don't like it.
I do understand that there's lots of peeps out there with careers and vested interest in maintaining the War on (some) Drugs. It does a lot more good for them, than for the rest of us.
Thanks, you answered my question.  I agree with you on the subject that government has no right to determine what a person smokes, eats or drinks.  But, and this is where we differ, I don't feel that a tour guide (in this case) should complain about drug testing, since it's in the best interest of the general public (tourist) to not have people who are high on drugs guiding them around an unfamiliar city. 
That's not at issue. If the job calls for not drinking or imbiding in other highs while on duty, fine. What you're advocating is no diff than if they come up with a test that can detect alchohol use for the previous three weeks... and then declare they'll not hire anyone who smokes cigs or drinks beer, evar, because they don't want tour guides drunk and smelling like tobacco... deliberately ignoring the incontrovertible fact that most who drink or smoke don't do it at work, if that's the job. Same can be said of most who smoke weed.
At the risk of thread drift, let me throw this out.
 
Is there a performance test that can tell the difference between stoned and stupid? I say that only partly in jest. I am not a pot advocate but is there some sort of reasonably easy test a person can take to say yes you are high, much like the breathalizer?  I can envision all the he said she said law suits of stoner vs. state cop. The nice thing about alcohol is the .08 is drunk regardless of your performance. I believe a standard like that could be to the dopers advantage.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline Shu

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We drug test at work. It is simple if you fail you are out the gate. There are no criminal charges to follow.
While some people do smoke or drink and only outside of work, I have had professional alcholics show up who had blood alcohol levels over .15 and they haven't touched a drop since the bar closed. ( I offer rehab or counseling first just as I would for drug user).
 
What you smoke, drink or eat is your buisness. If it can harm me then it is my buisness. In this case with tour guides being impaired could cause injury or death.
 
Weed smokers just don't do it on off hours and neither do drinkers. Some do partake at work during lunch time. How would you like your bus driver to have a good smoke from the weed during his lunch break and back on the road in an hour?
 
I am not advocating prohabition however drinking and drug usage have nothing to do with free speech.

Offline powderman

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SHU Good post Sir. I fail to see what a drug test for employment has to do with free speech. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline guzzijohn

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I just cannot see how any conservative could support drug testing except under probable cause.
GuzziJohn

Offline ironglow

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What they smoke, drink, shoot into their arms , ears or butts ..I suppose is their business.  If the crap goes with them to the job, it is the public's business. ....And if a simple urine test can save any innocent tourist from injury or death, great; what's the harm?  If they aren't breaking the law in the first place, they have nothing to sweat about...simple as that...
    Just like driving the interstate..if you don't exceed the speed limit..you will not likely get a speeding ticket...not hard to figure out! :P
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)