Readin patches....

[Shorty]

That is a hefty charge and is bound to be hard on patches (as well as the shooter).  For target or plinking, I'd recommend 50-60 grns..
That said, are you using dry patches?  If not, what lube?  If I'm going to shoot right away, I use a sloppy wet spit patch.  They never burn!

[Flatlander.54]

Sorry I didnt mention before.....havent tried anything as far as a lube other than good ole spit. As far as the 90 gr charge goes I dont find it uncomfortable at all as far as recoil goes when shooting round balls. Now if you put a 500+ grain slug or conical over that load Im sure the comfort factor will go way down since the weight of the projectile greatly affects felt recoil.

[KING]

  Flatlander.54.  A lot of the guys will use saliva as a patch lubricant.  It has some problems in that it will dry out kinda fast,and then there is no lub when the powder ignites.  I stopped using saliva sometime in the middle sixties cause my dad told me it would ruin yer bore.  Well,im not sure about that,but,I do know that a lot of the comercial lubes work very well,and they will stay shootable and stable for a long time downbore.  U can use any of the comercial that ya want,and they will do everything that ya want it to.  You also might want to go to a thicker patch like pillow ticking or put a wonder wad,or hornets nest mateial,or an old blujean cut into patches (with some lube on it) over yer powder befor ya seat the ball/patch downbore.  It might help ya a little.  Also the rifle might have some sharp edges on the rifling and a few shots will take care of that also.   Neetsfoot oil works good also,along with murphys oil soap,just dont use anything that has a petroleum base to it,and make sure ya dont use NEETSFOOT OIL COMPOUND.  King

[Grump]

If your patches are burnt threw in the center I would think it would be a powder-patch problem.  To much powder(90g might be a little to much).  FFG goex shouldnt be too hot. Patch material, to thin ,synthetic fibers, loose weeve or possibly the patch lube is flamable and burning the patch .  Try the Dutch Schoultz dry patch  method.  It reallyworks and it  helped me tremendously.

[Loozinit]

Patches obviously say alot about what's going on in there.  I recommend not using spit unless you forgot to bring your lubed stuff on the hunt.  Spit is the lube of last resort because it dries almost instantly as the charge ignites.  If you leave it in the bore, it will dry by capilary action - the powder will suck the moisture out of it.  It is mildly corrosive (pre-digestive enzymes) but probably wouldn't cause noticable harm to a bore.  There are much better alternatives.  I use Wonder Lube.  Other guys use whatever works for them.  There is some opinion out there concerning how much lube to use.  I dip the patches ( .018" ticking ) into warmed up melted lube and let the patches drip til cool.  They'll last forever this way and always have a consistent amount of lube on them.  Dip 'em one at a time with tweezers or something.

They will never burn.  Patches usually are burned ONLY if under-lubed or if lubed with an ignitable oil ( Crisco - good lube but burns easily).  Your charge of 90 grns is not too much for a .54.  It's probably up there at the top of efficiency, though, for RB's.  I use 80 grns in my .50 Great Plains Rifle.  Use accuracy as your guide.  If your ML'er looks like a roman candle when it goes off, you are probably using too much BP.  Load for a minimum of unburned ejecta (sparks and solids) coming out of the muzzle.

Patches can be frayed at  the edges.  This is a "parachute effect" or something like that (sorry -  I had to use some type of descriptor).  The heavier the patch mat'l, the more fraying can be seen.  It's normal.  As the patch is ejected from the muzzle, it meets some stiff resistance and simply gives way at the edges.  Don't worry about it.  With enough lube you should almost be able to feel some moisture left on the patch on the "ball" side.  A nice lead ballprint ring should be seen where the patch was sqeezed between the ball and rifling.  A little brown scorching of the "powder" side is normal.

Torn patches are another matter.(1.) Not enough lube can be the problem, or (2.) powder charge too heavy, causing the ball to "skip-start" and jump the rifling, or (3.) It is an indication of a sharp or rough area in the bore.  This was the case with my GPR which has long since been honed-by-frequent-use.  The thick ticking did the trick.  The cotton store bought pre-packaged stuff was too tender and thin to do the job.  I had alot of initial problems with that rifle until I began using .018" ticking and saturated patches.   I would never be parted with it now - twenty plus years later.

Beware of phony ticking.  We all know what ticking looks like, right?  Well, looks are deceiving.  Real ticking is becoming hard to find.  The stuff that we are now seeing is merely a pinstripe print made to look like the real thing.  It's for all those homecraft-stuffed bear type things the gals are into.  Real ticking is like a dollar bill -  it has the blue threads running throught the material - not just printed on top. It's also rough like denim.  Cut some and look closely at the edges.  Can you pull out the blue threads? Or, is the edge all white?  There is a performance difference under ML conditions.  Hope this all helps...

[P-J]

I use spit patches all the time at the range. I put only a little moisture on them, just enough so they load easily. I can pick up fired patches that still feel damp, so they don't dry out immediately upon firing. You don't need so much moisture that it affects the powder.

[Loozinit]

PJ, with respect to a fellow front-stuffer, I will stand by my advice.  Even the old timers used spit as a last resort.  They usually made up better mixtures from natural materials available to them, like tallow mixed with beeswax and such - even axle grease.  

To a man, all my hunting buddies over the years have tried spit.  It does work - but none of us has ever picked up a still moist patch and there have been many picked up burned and torn.   However, if it works for you, then I can only say that the "lore of The Patch" continues down through the centuries to us today.  I would have it no other way.

I hope I haven't given the impression that my lube method leaves so much on the patch that it wets the charge.  On the contrary, I don't think it's possible to wet the powder to the point that it will not light off.  I just don't think that any patch can hold that much moisture.  Only the top few granules would be effected in any case.  Alot of lube sqeezes out as you start the ball - another way of getting the same amount on the patch every time.

This is just talk, and for what it's worth, that's been my experience.  Good shooting...

[P-J]

Hey Loozinit, I see you're in western Washington. Me too. Seattle area.

Your huntin' buddies are 100% correct. Spit, or any water-based lube, isn't good in a hunting situation. The load has to be fired within a few minutes or it will dry out. Mebbe cause rust too.

But at the range, it gives nothing away in terms of ease of loading or accuracy. I use it because it's convenient, like no prelubing, no melting in hot weather or hardening in cold, and I don't have to carry extra stuff. Plus I can easily vary the amount with changing conditions. I wipe with spit too, for the same reasons.

My post wasn't aimed at you, but for newbies that might think they have to have a ton of stuff to shoot muzzleloaders. I promote keeping it simple, like ya don't need special concoctions for lubing, wiping, cleaning, etc.

[Loozinit]

PJ, I had to laugh when I read that last from you.  You got me remembering when I tried spit at the range.  Seems I don't produce enough and my mouth kept goin' dry.  Fellow next to me suggested I bring lemons next time...

[savageT]

Have you guys ever used b/p cleaning solutions like Lehigh Valley Shooting Patch Lubricant & Bore Cleaner, or one of the other gun mfgs. cleaning products?  I'm not referring to Borebutter or Wonder Lube.

[savageT]

Have you guys ever used b/p cleaning solutions like Lehigh Valley Shooting Patch Lubricant & Bore Cleaner, or one of the other gun mfgs. cleaning products?  I'm not referring to Borebutter or Wonder Lube.

Sorry, What I should have asked was... Does anyone use these afore mentioned products for Patch Lube instead of the grease/waxy lubes?