Police Thuggery : is there a police brutality problem in Denver?

[Swift One]

I've been a LEO since 1982 and it was that way long before I ever got into this. Just something to think about

If you have been in it for that long, certainly you are some sort of a supervisor.  Dont put off on the people that get voted in. The old school should be policing their young.

Actually you would be wrong. I have been an "acting chief" and found that I did not have an "aptitude for command" (I cannot lie to the troops with a straight face, and civil administrators often have a hard time accepting the bald truth ) I have worked as an IA officer for a while and have participated in IA investigations since then, but I learned this about myself, I'm happiest as a patrol/beat officer and if I told you what I like best about it, you would probably call me a liar.

I did 3yrs as an IA officer at my facility.  didnt sit right with me.  I now work as an armory supervisor.  You and me mr. Cuts, we have some common ground.  I dont think you are a liar Cuts, pro cop yes.  Liar no.

[Matt]

Meanwhile, the comments about paramilitary thinking......where do you suppose that comes from?

I know exactly where that comes from. The War on "Some" Drugs.
That is also when cops decided the oath they take doesn't mean what it says.


Matt

[Hairy Chest]

Maybe they should have hit him harder.   What are the facts?  What we see is some pedestrian getting involved in a traffic stop with his cell phone camera.  Remember the damage done when Rodney King's video hit the air waves?  The background to that story was he was on PCP doing 90 mph on the freeway.  We always hear one side to every argument in the left-wing media.   

[Cuts Crooked]

As the USA is turned into a state securitate I expect to see more LEO crime on citizens, alot more, not less. And nobody is going to do anything about it. 

I understand how you feel, but that is what happens when we abrogate our responsibilities as citizen/voters. Being free means ya gotta pay attention and do the right thing. If you don't you end up where we are now, and headed for worse.

[Nuke41]

As has been so often told to us, the job is hard.  It's stressful.  The pay isn't great.  So why would anyone do it?  The power.  My god they love that power.

So you think that simple generalization accurately and fairly covers the hundreds of thousands of LEOs in the US?  Do you think it covered the BP Officer who was killed in the line of duty last night in Arizona?
 
 

[Hairy Chest]

How about this one?  Police have to deal with immigrant scum.  Looks like the cop gave this one a helping hand.  He was sprayed and responded to the crowd.  So he got the wrong person.  Who's fault was that?  It was the immigrant scum who can't be civilized in a get together.  Job well done.  Hit'em harder.      

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2211717/Aida-Guzman-sucker-punched-officer-parade-speaks-anger-assault--police-launch-investigation-actions-19-year-veteran-cop-Lt-Josey.html

[D Fischer]

As has been so often told to us, the job is hard.  It's stressful.  The pay isn't great.  So why would anyone do it?  The power.  My god they love that power.

So you think that simple generalization accurately and fairly covers the hundreds of thousands of LEOs in the US?  Do you think it covered the BP Officer who was killed in the line of duty last night in Arizona?

This come's as no shock. Someone had to bring up the guy that got shot in the line of duty. Your talking about a guy that new the danger when he applied. He applied, I doubt they went out on the street and drug him in screaming and yelling. All we'll ever know about they guy is that his fellow officer's and friend's and family say he was a great guy, and probably he was. That has nothing to do with police brutality that goes on in this country.

My ex was stopped by an ore state trooper years ago. She was driving a friends car and the friend had a carry permit. The carry permit show's up when a plate is run. The officer said she was vering on the road between the center line and fog line but had never crossed either. When my wife was pulled over she was approached by the officer with weapon drawn.I complained and the officer had to go to a three day class on dealing with the public, pretty harsh. wonder what would happen if I walked up to an officer with a gun out? I am not even close to being the best friend of law enforcement but I do realize there are good cops out there. I also realize those same good cops will protect their brother's that do something wrong. Are they still good cops?

[Nuke41]

As has been so often told to us, the job is hard.  It's stressful.  The pay isn't great.  So why would anyone do it?  The power.  My god they love that power.

So you think that simple generalization accurately and fairly covers the hundreds of thousands of LEOs in the US?  Do you think it covered the BP Officer who was killed in the line of duty last night in Arizona?

This come's as no shock. Someone had to bring up the guy that got shot in the line of duty. Your talking about a guy that new the danger when he applied. He applied, I doubt they went out on the street and drug him in screaming and yelling. All we'll ever know about they guy is that his fellow officer's and friend's and family say he was a great guy, and probably he was. That has nothing to do with police brutality that goes on in this country.

Actually it has everything to do with it.  There’s something like 800,000 law enforcement officers in the US from the last estimate I saw.  Sweeping generalities like all cops do the job because they love power or that all cops are abusive are unwarranted and don’t contribute to a serious discussion of the issue of bad policing.

Any career that has high authority over or responsibility for others relies on the same basic tenants to ensure they have a quality workforce:
- Intensive screening and recruitment
- Intensive training for the job
- Intensive standards for those on the job
If those 3 areas aren’t met you will have bad people in any career field.

So what percentage of those 800,000 police are bad?  I think it’s a very small minority and one that needs to be dealt with swiftly, but that doesn’t justify the vilification of the rest of them.  In your example the policeman acted inappropriately and was disciplined and retrained, I imagine if it happened again he was probably terminated, what part of that weren’t you satisfied with? 
 
 

[Swift One]

what part of that weren’t you satisfied with? 
 
 

The fact that he did it in the first place.  Most cops wouldn't be cops if they couldnt carry guns.  There is nothing I love more than watching a cop that has never been to a prison before pull up to our sally port, park his car in it, only to be immediatly unarmed and weapons put into a secure box before they drives through.  The comments that comes out of these guys mouths are astonishing and very tell tale.
 
"I cant believe you would work in this place with only a can of mace." 
 
"Lock up my trunk weapons?!?, You arent taking out my trunk guns!"
 
"Are you serious?!? You guys are so petty that I have to lock up my taser before I enter this s**t hole?"
 
It's freaking hilarious and it happens all the time.  Every once ina  while we will get an old school guy in and he or she totally understands.  The new ones though- take away their guns and you take away their power.  That is a thugs mentality not a cops.  A true law enforcement professional knows that the most powerful peice of equipment they have is the ability to communicate.
 
 
 

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Swift One:
"That is a thugs mentality not a cops.  A true law enforcement professional knows that the most powerful peice of equipment they have is the ability to communicate."


+1
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GuzziJohn

[DDZ]

All the LEO's in this country, and all the arrests they make this doesn't happen very often, but when it does, then all cops are power hungry villains. I have noticed a trend here. When a LEO steps out of line somewhere in this country there is lots of talk about it, but never much about LEO's getting beat up, or shot in the line of duty. I guess the mentality is they deserve it. I'm not at all supporting police abuse. When they do step out of line they should be punished for it.

[finisher]

I've been a LEO since 1982 and it was that way long before I ever got into this. Just something to think about

If you have been in it for that long, certainly you are some sort of a supervisor.  Dont put off on the people that get voted in. The old school should be policing their young.

************
 Some of you may have read my posts about a mentor I had who was an LACSD narcotics detective. I know Cuts has. This guy was the type that would be "all for the team" out in public but as soon as the unit got back to the station, he would put a Navy style beat down on someone for crap like this video. And then he'd come home, get drunk with some other cop buddies, and laugh about busting up the face of one of his partners.

This was back in the mid 80's and times have changed due to an extremely litigious atmosphere in LA. I'd imagine that it's no different between cops. I was taught that if you're called out for steppin',  out of line (particularly in a way that makes the whole team look bad or even potentially endangers them), you take your ass whoopin like a man and own up for what you did instead of crying to the IA or a lawyer.

Goons like the ones on this video make it a more dangerous job for all cops and they probably should get a locker room beat down to set 'em straight.  ...that is unless the majority of the guys with whom they work condone this type of conduct and just laughed it off.

I would hate to think that was the case, but who knows.

Finisher

[45-70.gov]

I've been a LEO since 1982 and it was that way long before I ever got into this. Just something to think about

If you have been in it for that long, certainly you are some sort of a supervisor.  Dont put off on the people that get voted in. The old school should be policing their young.

************
 Some of you may have read my posts about a mentor I had who was an LACSD narcotics detective. I know Cuts has. This guy was the type that would be "all for the team" out in public but as soon as the unit got back to the station, he would put a Navy style beat down on someone for crap like this video. And then he'd come home, get drunk with some other cop buddies, and laugh about busting up the face of one of his partners.

This was back in the mid 80's and times have changed due to an extremely litigious atmosphere in LA. I'd imagine that it's no different between cops. I was taught that if you're called out for steppin',  out of line (particularly in a way that makes the whole team look bad or even potentially endangers them), you take your ass whoopin like a man and own up for what you did instead of crying to the IA or a lawyer.

Goons like the ones on this video make it a more dangerous job for all cops and they probably should get a locker room beat down to set 'em straight.  ...that is unless the majority of the guys with whom they work condone this type of conduct and just laughed it off.

I would hate to think that was the case, but who knows.

Finisher

you keep going back to violence to treat the symptoms


and don't really fix the problem or the mindset


most crimes are dealt with through the  courts
why  don't these cops bring the crimal cops to the judicial system
oh......your telling  us  even the good cops think violence is the answer


i had a friend  MURDERED by a cop....no  i won't go into dedails

[finisher]

So Finisher,,,'Training Day" wasn't that far fetched...reality based?
.
I'm starting to get what Cut's is saying...internally most LEO and DAs can't self police themselves because the 'gang' won't allow that to happen...just not going to happen. So its the politician's hot potatoe...I'd say we free men got a big problem getting bigger. So use the great cyber town meeting hall to expose this stuff all the time...to help the good cops vetter out their ranks until it doesn't pay to have a few bad apples ruin the cider.
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..TM7

************
"Training Day" is very loosely based around the Rampart Scandal (look it up). I find it amusing when I hear LEOs cry about the low pay. I don't know about smaller agencies, but I know that ten years ago, LAPD started out at around $45K (with an AA degree) with a second to none benefits package.


My wife's cousin claimed to have cleared just over $80k with street and courthouse OT (he does have a Bachelors in CJ though) in his rookie year.  He RENTS a $1500 per month house, has a very high maintenance wife, and is not hurting financially in any way. The Sherriff's make slightly more.


Coming from where I do, I can spot an off duty "flatfoot" with relative ease (they carry a certain air about them in their attitude, demeanor, and body language.  And it's also "something" in the eyes.

My wife calls me "Hannibal Lector" because I'll joke with her out at a restaurant  and tell her, "look, how much you wanna bet that guys a cop". She'll say "ok, what ever". I'll then point out the little ear marks that give it away and after a while (I've taught her how to be observant without being too obvious), the guy will get up and expose an outer badge holder or an off duty pistol; or if we're sitting close enough, we might catch a bit of the conversation that will win me some "love" later in the evening  . Sometimes, another cop will come in and greet him giving it away.
But always, these guys are driving nice big expensive trucks or large sports sedans. I hear them in the gun shops talking about their boats and last years $2500 tuna trip among other luxuries.. Yeah, I'm a little pissed about having to pay for all that even more than I am about welfare cases.

I was told yesterday, that even in a small town like Medford, where I live now, that they start off right around $50K (more than LAPD). I guess it's a matter of perspective and lifestyle, but my family could live pretty comfortably on that.

I agree, that it is going to require much more vigilance and action on the part of the average "Joe", but "Joe" needs to know the law before he starts messing around with those who THINK that they actually are the law.

Like with everything else that is political (Muslims, minorities, "white people" etc. etc.), the challenge is to put the spotlight on the bad ones without dragging the good ones over the coals.

Being a legal sacrificial lamb is a tall order though.

[Swift One]

I wish today's "Cop" would just wake up and realize that the only people that like you guys anymore are other cops.  Most citizens don't trust you, think you have entirely too much darn authority, and see most of you as nothing more than thugs with permission slips (Badges).  The few times I have gotten the police involved in my personal life (handgun permit renewal, or an accident) it just puts a nasty taste in my mouth.  This has nothing to do about disrespecting authority.  I am in a job of authority myself.  It has to do with your actions on the street- not just the incidents that make the news.  Your meer presence and uniform in my book is an immediate red flag of non trust. 

[yellowtail3]

informative post, fnisher - thanks