Author Topic: 1858 PIETTA 44 cal. (Read 2695 times)

powderman · « **on:** February 09, 2004, 01:49:39 PM »

I'm buying a 44 pietta from my buddy after taxes are in. The gun appears as new with no marks at all, he bought it from a friend.
QUESTIONS.
From what I've gleaned from other boards I'll be using 25-30 gr of 3fff, maybe pyrodex since I have that too.
451 rd ball? or bullet? It will be a LEE mold.
I use bore butter in my 50 but want something a little more solid and less messy, recipes for lube?
Does felt make good wads? I plan to cut my own. Wadding material?
Do I just put lube over the ball? OR use a lubed over powder wad? I want to make my own LUBED wads, instructions please? What about waxed card wads, or milk carton wads?
I know that I've asked a lot. I'm fine with my Rifles, but am totally ignorant about the cap and ball pistol. All info is greatly appreciated. POWDERMAN.

Flint · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2004, 02:33:24 PM »

Use 454 diameter balls for best performance and seal. I use Wonder Wads over the powder and Bore Butter over the ball. A lubricated overpowder wad will be enough and you can leave out the Bore Butter, it just keeps the fouling softer longer, and Remingtons foul up fast. Use Ballistol on the cylinder pin. Gatofeo can help you a lot.

Good time Charlie · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2004, 03:26:47 PM »

Flint got it right.

Gatofeo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2004, 03:50:52 PM »

Search my previous posts by using my name, Gatofeo. I've put a lot of infomation in here on the best way to load the cap and ball revolver.
No denigration intended, but your questions are so common from newcomers that I'd find myself writing the same answer nearly every week (this isn't the only site I visit).
I prefer a .457 inch ball in my Uberti-made Remington Army .44 revolver. However, .454 will also work well. Avoid .451 inch, as the books recommend; it hasn't proven as accurate.
Anyway, seek out my posts and print them out (Imma long-winded ol' cat) for easier reading.
Good luck with that Remington. Don't be shy about asking questions in here; no one was born with this knowledge, we all had to learn at some point.

howdy doody · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2004, 04:30:56 PM »

I'll have to agree that the Piettas need to have at least a 454 ball and with that they shave a nice small ring of lead. The balls don't creep. I shoot a 30 gr load of black, pyrodex or more commonly American Pioneer/Cleanshot. They are danged accurate out to say 15 yards or so. You will like yours when you get it. I fitted mine with Uncle Mike nipples, which are no longer available, but a company called Treso makes nipples that will run the #10 Remington caps without any problems. I even have Colt/Emf springs in mine that are a lot lighter and never have ignition problems, but I have polished internals at the friction spots. :grin: My only complaint is that the size of my hands causes the trigger guard to bash my middle finger knuckles and they get sore after 6 stages of shooting.

simonkenton · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2004, 03:44:42 AM »

Gatofeo's wad lube is good stuff.
I don't shoot as much as some of the boys, I just spent $6 on a bag of 100 Wonder Wads and used Gatofeo's recipe.
Instead of a double boiler I used a glass dish and a microwave.
Lots of the boys load up the cylinder, on top of the ball, with lube. What a mess! Not needed in my opinion.
I am doing a test on how long a cylinder can be loaded, using the Gatofeo technique. I have one that has been setting on the shelf for 11 months now. In a month I will let 'er rip, and post a report.
ps I think it is on that same post as the lube recipe, but Gatofeo has some great interviews with Civil War cavalry troops. They describe the effectiveness of the cap and ball revolver in the ultimate test. Very interesting reading.

Full House · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2004, 07:11:43 AM »

I have read from more than source that the key to keeping a load of blackpower fresh is to seal it at both ends. Grease over the ball and drip hot candle wax over the caps. This will also water proof and was used in the Civil War.

10s over Kings

powderman · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2004, 08:28:33 AM »

GATOFEO. I did a search and only came up with one page, it was from last Dec and were posts talking about your lube. Maybe I did the search wrong. POWDERMAN.

simonkenton · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2004, 09:17:39 AM »

Full House I hear you, it would be waterproofed, with the wax dripped on it. I thought about doing that.
But, all I am trying to do is keep air out. It doesn't look like much air will get past a cap.
On the other end, first, the Gatofeo lubed wad is a pretty good seal. Then, a ball that shaves a good donut ought to be just about air tight.
This is the premise that I am now testing. I bet it shoots, 5x5.
But either way I will report in a month.
I will tell you one thing, it has been plenty humid this year in the North Carolina mountains.

powderman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2004, 12:05:39 PM »

GATOFEO. I re did a search and found most of what I wanted to know. Thank you all. I'm 56, started reloading in the 6th grade but am just now getting into a CB revolver. POWDERMAN.

simonkenton · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2004, 01:16:05 PM »

Be careful Powderman, you may have 4 of these pistols by Christmas.
I mean, you got to get a Navy Colt to compare the balance.

powderman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2004, 02:41:46 PM »

The 1851 Navy Colt has always been my dream to own. POWDERMAN.

Will52100 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:48:04 PM »

I think you'd like the navy colt, I just got a new one in from Cabela's. Will find out how it shoots in a couple of days when it quits raining!

The ballence and handling are unbelivible, a natural pointer.

It's a pieta, and compared to the old pieta's the finish is outstanding. It's got one or two little flaws, namely a sharp edge where the frame and barrel meet up, the frame sticks out about 1/32" maybe a little less. The triger also has more creep than I'd like, but breaks clean. All the holes in the cylinder line of precisly with the bore, some guns don't. But all in all what do you expect for 160$?

Never owned a Reminton, never carred for the look or feel. Always figured that if I wanted a Remington I'd go for a 75' model. Just me, I'm wierd. I know they are stronger and have better sights than a colt, but fell in love with the colts ever since seeing "the oulaw Josey Wales" as a kid.

MOGorilla · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2004, 02:20:10 AM »

I second the 51 from Cabelas. Bought the 51 that is slightly engraved and simulated ivory grips. I bought the flashier model since it was in celebration of having lost 85 pounds. Now I have another 85 to go to be the weight I should be, or grow another 10 inches. I will probably treat myself to another one at that point. It is a great gun and my new favorite. I have a remmington and a colt army, with shoulder stock, but I really like the 51, Remmington is the most accurate though. I also love the 75 Remmingtons. A friend has one and it is also sweet.

powderman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2004, 04:34:49 AM »

Is there any reason I couldn't thicken some bore butter with a little parafin? Bore butter is so darn messy. Say about a 3 pts bore butter-1 pt parafin? There is no beesewax in our area that I've been able to find. POWDERMAN.

simonkenton · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2004, 09:22:28 AM »

I found beeswax at the old hardware store. It is in little cakes, small cake $2, big cake $4.
Dixie gun works sells it as well. One cake will go a long way. Also, it is the best lube for old windows. If you have old double hung windows that stick when you slide them, rub the beeswax on the rails. Old carpenter's trick.

crossbow · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2004, 10:30:29 AM »

Powderman, would islam be a cancer if they were not sitting on oil and bordering Israel.

powderman · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2004, 01:59:22 PM »

CROSSBOW. Yes, islam has nothing to do with oil. Islam is spreading like a cancer throughout the world. Their mohamed was awarrior, not a prophet. He preached hatred, intolerance, and death to all non muslims. Jesus Christ preached love and forgiveness. Mohamed was a man, pure and simple. He performed NO miracles, raised no body from the dead, Jesus did all of these things. The day will come when the world sees islam for what it is, a boil on the butt of the world. POWDERMAN.

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2004, 02:37:50 PM »

Powderman;

Getting back to cap and ball revolvers, I have used .454 sized swaged balls and occasionally I found one or two that seemed to load a little easier than I'd care for. I switched to .457s and they all press fit nicely. My 1858 Pietta will shoot an honest 2" 25 yard group for 5 shots. I load it with 30 grains of fffg or Pyro. At the range I load with lube over the ball. In the field I use wonderwads. I also have the 1851 Pietta Navy. This is as nice a shooter as one could ask for.

I would not thicken bore butter with parafin. I would use beeswax or melted bar soap, something with mineral oil in it. This makes for an incredible lube and the soap actually helps the cleaning process. Learned that trick from reading an article by an old timer.

If you cut your own wads from felt, take care that the lube you melt into them is not too soft. It will migrate into the powder when the cylinder gets hot and just being in the sun can warm that metal up enough to start the lube running. When the lube is still hot, really squeeze it out.

You are embarking on one of the most enjoyable persuits for handgunners. If you haven't gotten to intimately know a cap and ball revolver, you can't really imagine what it was like on the frontier.

Dan C

powderman · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2004, 03:49:36 PM »

DAN. Thank you Sir. I found felt at walmart but it is real thin, didn't buy any. I tried a hardware store today to try and find some felt weatherstripping, didn't have any left. My quest for old felt hats has drawn a complete blank, I have several people looking for them though. Unless I just order a mold I'm gonna haveto drive 50-60 miles to buy some balls for it, can't find #10 caps either. Eventually I will get everything together and shoot up a storm. I'm going to check another place or 2 tomorrow, haven't found any beesewax either. I used to dress my fly line with beesewax, it's hard to find anymore. POWDERMAN.

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2004, 04:05:08 PM »

Powderman! Don't drive! Order from Cabela's or Midway and have them deliver to your door!

www.cabelas.com

www.midwayusa.com

Beeswax can be found at the local hardware store. They sell those wax doughnuts for sealing toilet bases! That's beeswax. Pretty reasonable too. Melt the beeswax and mix 50% X 50% with bore butter! If you can't find beeswax, melt the bore butter and shave in some bar soap and melt it down until you get the right consistency. Try and get a mild soap without strong chemicals. (Not Lava!)

Experiment a little. If you want to go real historica, melt the bore butter and add tallow! You can get that from the butcher!

Good luck

Dan C

Singing Bear · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2004, 05:55:13 PM »

Powderman. If you do a search for beeswax, you'll get a bunch of vendors that sell it by the pound at reasonable prices. As for the felt wads, in a pinch I use those craft sheets and glue a couple together to make a thicker sheet. Just use a craft spray adhesive on both sheets and stick'em together. You can prelube these by melting the lube of your choice in a large cake pan and just lay the felt in it, let it cool and dry then punch out your wads. The spray adhesive is like a rubber cement and won't desintegrate in the hot lube.

Good time Charlie · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2004, 12:24:33 AM »

Put DurOfelt in your search engine, these folks have felt. Be sure you get 100% wool felt. You can get it in one-eighth or one-sixteenth thickness. I got the one-sixteenth it works fine.
Charlie

powderman · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2004, 07:56:46 AM »

Thanks guys. I found some #10 caps today and bought them. The shop had some 454 balls too for $5.25 for 25, OUUUUUUCCCCHHH, I passed, must get a mold. I have a spare wax ring, didn't realize it was beesewax. Slowly but surely I WILL get this 44 going. POWDERMAN.

Gatofeo · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2004, 02:01:39 PM »

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but discretion and common courtesy should accompany opinion as well.
I was disturbed to see a deliberate denigration against an established religion.
Really, is that necessary?
I am not a muslim, Christian, Jew, Bhuddist or member of any organized religion. However, I am a great believer in a Higher Being, afterlife, and that I one day will be held accountable for the things I did --- and more importantly, the things I failed to do.
Historically speaking, many of the followers of Christ have brutalized the world for more than 2,000 years.
The invasion of the Middle East by the Crusaders, the Spanish Inquisition, the slaughter of non-Christians throughout Europe for hundreds of years, the Vatican's blind eye toward Nazism and the death camps --- all of these are shameful, horrific examples of religous followers who believe their route to God is the only route.
Christianity would do well to remember that when you point a finger, four are pointed back at yourself. Does Christ's admonition of "Judge not, lest ye be judged," mean nothing to you?
I don't wish this to be a whole indictment of Christianity, or any relgion. I know there are good, fine, moral Christians out there, just as there are such people in any of the established religions.
And there are good, fine, moral atheists and agnostics out there as well.
Since the Sept. 11 attack I've seen all kinds of racist propaganda about non-Christians, most of it on the internet.
The founding fathers recognized the abuses, cruelty and murder often carried out in the name of religion, which is why they mandated a separation of church and state.
Most were, themselves, Christians --- yet they had the foresight and decency to allow others the right to think as they believed.
Please practice that same decency and courtesy --- both are social graces sadly lacking in today's society.

powderman · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2004, 03:47:56 PM »

GATOFEO. I was asked a question, I answered it to the best of my ability. I believe what I said. I've stated my opinions on other boards, I don't really feel free to do that here. There will come a day when the world will wake up, hope it's not too late.
Another poster said the wax toilet ring was beesewax. I had a spare and read the box and it didn't say anything about beesewax. The wax seems a lot softer than beesewax. Is it beesewax? POWDERMAN.

Flint · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2004, 06:27:15 PM »

For what it's worth, and I don't want to get entangled in the side issue, but the Crusades were in response to an Islamic invasion of Europe.

MOGorilla · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2004, 02:07:10 AM »

I have taken a graduate course on the Crusades and the first crusade was the Pope Leo's(I think) power play. The orthodox emperor of Constantinople called for aid to protect their far eastern boundaries (Present Day Eastern Turkey). The eastern borders were being harrassed by steppe horsemen who were loosely held to be muslim. The muslim kingdoms were fairly tolerent at this point and had scientific knowledge that put Europe to shame. Christian pilgrims were allowed access to holy sites. The Pope saw an opportunity to fire up the masses and possibly use a military solution to unite the orthodox/catholic churches under papal control. This being an era when Popes were more secular than most people and vied for power with Kings and Emperors. Medeival cruelty can really not be expressed, so what ensued was not for the squeemish. The crusades were not about religion, it was about a power play, as are most religious wars. Unfortunately, we are still suffering the political effects of those wars 1000 years after the fact, much the way the US still has issues brought to light in 1860-1865. During the crusades, Christian Constantinople was attacked several times by Christian forces and completely sacked once. That being said, what the heck does this have to do with cap and ball revolvers. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, I just like to have lots of information before I form mine and this really ranks in those three things my mother said never to discuss at parties-religion, politics, and sex. (I could never figure out what I was supposed to talk about after those had been eliminated though, but Cap and Ball revolvers sounds good)
I like a .454 ball on 28 grains of FFFG bp, with a wonder wad between for my 44 colt army and the 58 remmington. I like the .376 ball (can't find .380) with 20 grains fffg bp witha wonder wad between for my colt navy.

Full House · « **Reply #28 on:** February 13, 2004, 02:30:54 AM »

"...can't find .380," try www.warrenmuzzleloading.com/ .

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #29 on:** February 13, 2004, 03:12:32 AM »

Powderman;

If it's not yellowish color, it's not beeswax. Perhaps you have a synthetic one? If it is yellowish and appears softer than beeswax, it is probably not 100% pure. If that's the case, reduce the amount of bore butter in your mix to keep things balanced. I believe most bullet lubes are too soft for black powder heat. Most start melting with the heat of the sun on the cylinder alone! That's too soft. Of course, if you set your gun on the shooting bench in the sun and let the metal heat up, even beeswax is going to melt. You might experiment with two formulas, one for hot weather and one for cold.

I have over the years spent a lot of time with people of the Islamic faith. I try not to be insulting, but I have to state, I find much of what they profess to be objectionable! Their women are nothing more than beasts of burden, and their daughters are not considered to even be family members, nor are they listed in the family tree. Daughters will go to another family and have no family identity. Sons are all important.

Islam in its purest forms is probably a fairly peaceful religion, or at least no more dreadfully violent than our Old Testament. But in truth, how many people follow a true faith, be it Christian, Hebrew, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever? There is a move a'foot, and I have to believe our Islamic neighbors wish us ill. The quicker the world understands that cave-men with AKs and rocket propelled grenages are not going to assert their blasphemy on free people, the better. Like GW said, if you are not with us, you are against us. If you come to this country and share our freedom, you may not support those who conspire to take freedom away! If you run a convenience store and take my money, you may not make statements in support of Osama and Al Queda. If you do, I will not move a muscle when your store burns to the ground.

Dan C