real-world barrel life in the .243Win.

[piero]

I have heard that the .243 had a really short barrel life, something to the tune of about 1,500 rounds.  I was wandering if this is for a BR rifle or maybe a worst-case type of thing.  I hear .308's last around 5,000 rounds.  Why such a big difference?  If this really is the case, i'm going to send my 700 down the road and get a 30-06 like a I wanted in the first place.
 
BTW, I plan on never shooting after the barrel gets too hot to touch (as with all my rifles) and minute of deer at 300yds is all i'm ever going to need.  I also plan on using 95-100 grain pills at a little less than max for my deer loads.
 
Thanks yall.

[swifty22]

P- Don't worry about it, Rem will put a new one on for a really good price. You will NEVER shoot an '06 as much as the 243 and trigger time is the most important thing. As you said that it wouldn't get hot enough to not touch the bbl. it will last a long time. My first rifle was a HVA lightweight in 243 and I bought Milsurp 4831 for 50 cents per pound and 80 gr. Speer rejects for $2.50/hundred. We have a cattle Ranch in NW Wa st. and back in the 60/70's there were, not kiddin', as many Colombian Ground Squirrels as you wanted to shoot in the Alfalfa fields and on the cattle ranges. I shot the bbl. out of it but it took about 10 years, all loads were as much Milsurp 4831 as you could get in the case, and as a farmer (read cheap)  I used Mil. 308's necked down and not reamed so the loads had plenty of pressure. Now I have another story, about 10 years ago I took my Ruger #3 in 220 Swift to Montana to shoot "gophers" (Richardson's ground squirrels), I took the first inch out of the barrel in front of the neck in 2 days. The forestock was so hot that I could smell it. Note to self, don't do that, but it was really really fun. It is now a 6mm Swift and shoots just as well as before I had it rebored. If you heat the hell out of them they will burn the throats and beginning of the rifling out but as before Rem will put a new one on cheap (I think the last one I had them do was something like $220), a hell of a lot cheaper than a new rifle, but if you want an '06 get one to go along w/the 243.-Get the big one-Muddy 

[D Fischer]

I just don't buy into the shot out barrel theory in a hunting rifle. Even if it did burn out in 1500 rds, that is 75 box's of ammo. So after 1500 rds if you lose a 1/2" in accuracy, you could still have a rifle shooting around an inch. Neither the 1/2" or 1" rifle wopuld be worth beans to a benchrester but pertty good for a varmit shooter. I have a Paul Jaeger 03 Springfield made in 1945. Still has the origional springfield barrel on it. The guy I got it from shot a lot of corossive primer's thru it and wasn't all that careful about cleaning. The barrel is really pitted and the rifle is still a 1" rifle. Bad barrel but still shoot's. A friend in Montata back in the early 70's got rid of his 264 win mag, said it was shot out. It went from averaging 3/4" to 1". So, what is shot out?

[piero]

Swifty,
Thanks, lots of good info.  The only problem I see is, wait for it, i'm one of those cazy "preppies" and I bought the rifle for not only deer but as an SHTF rifle as well.  Hopefully i'll never have to use it for that but I have to keep it in mind.  The reason that poses a problem is if Remington well, no longer exists, it would be hard to replace the barrel.  It's a small problem, but that is why I asked the question in the first place, though I should have mentioned the whole SHTF thing in the first place.   oh, and how many rounds did you put through that #3!?!  I know that round is a barrel eater but dang!
 
D Fischer,
That's exactly what I was wandering!  See, I know a match rifle should shoot what, 1/4 MOA?  So if it no longer shot groups like that, they would consider it "worn out"  but a hunter would never notice the difference.  THAT is what I want to know.  Will a .243 lose hunting accuracy after 1,500 rounds or just match accuracy?  If just match accuracy, how long will a barrel last for hunting accuracy?  Thanks for helping me find the question I wanted to ask.
 
Keep ur powder dry and hold into the wind.

[swifty22]

P, that Douglas bbl had about 2,000 rounds through it w max loads of H 414 and 50 gr. Speer SP's. When I went gopher huntin I had about 700 round w/I 4895 and the 50 gr. Speer. I got carried away in those 2 days and simply burned/wore out the barrel. Believe it or not it actually wore down the lands the full length of it as well as mud flating the throat and part of the bore. It would still shoot 2'' or so at a hundred but that is not good enough for a 400 yd coyote gun. My old 243 was so worn out it would send any bullet I tried (from 60 gr Sierra HP's through 100 gr Partitions sideways at 100 w/5"+ "groups". If you want a shtf gun go buy a Savage in 308-Muddy     

[D Fischer]

The way I understand it, a quarter inch match rifle won't win many matches. And if that 2" rifle is in the hands of a 3" shooter that never shoot's over a hundred or so yards, is it burned out? I don't thin k so. Burned out is probably a personnel call and i suspect that more often than not the rifle still has more than the shooter! Now if the question is what is accurate for a 243, the same thing it is with any other cartridge. In the real world a rifle that shoot's 1 1/2" groups will get just as much game as a rifle that shoot's 1/2" groups. Just depends on how you use what you have. A lot of accuracy buffs take great pride in a rifle that will turn in 1/2" groups from their tuned super rifle and that is admittedly really great but fact is it won't do any better than a 1 1/2" rifles in the hands of someone that knows his limits and lives with them. And that 1/2" rifle is gonna get blown off the bench rest field. The average guy will never burn out a barrel.

[piero]

Thanks guys.  Now that I thik about it, so far I've done more damage to the barrel with a boresnake and a screw driver than I have with ammo so I think I have to worry about my tinkering more than my shooting!   Also I just found out how cheap take off barrels are on ebay!  Wow $35 for a never fired barrel is fantastic.  What do ya'll think is a good price for a barrel install?  Gonna have to go all the way to Montgomery to find a 'smith but a friend of mine says he knows the guy and can get me a good deal.  The reason I want to rebarrel is I really don't need a .243, but my best friend already has a win model 70 carbine in .243 so I thought we could just use the same reloading equipment that way.  Long story short I have a .223 handi rifle that's a solid MOA shooter, a Marlin 30-30 for short range, a Ruger 10/22 for small stuff and sustained fire, and a 12ga for everything else.  I have no need for an "inbetween rifle",  but I don't have a mid-long range deer rifle (200-300 yds). Well, gotta go to school an' git suma that fancy book-learnin'! 

[Darrell Davis]

Well, I have shot and loved the .243 since I was a teenager. Be 70 next Spring.
 
My current .243 rifle is an OLD! RUGER flat bolt that I bought about 3rd hand from a friend in the early 80s. 
 
Has always been a good shooter although the barrel must be getting a bit tired by now. 
 
Of late, I have been developing loads for the 55gr Nosler Balastic tip, and am able to get about an inch group.  That is good enough that the last 5 shots puting down 5 little furry ground critters.
 
Even saw my first 4000+ on the chrono with that bullet.  No good groups at that velocity, but it was sure fast.
 
Now, if a person isn't stupid and shoots/burns out their barrel by over heating it, they will be plumb lucky to have shot out a barrel, because they will have shot MANY rounds and spent lots of trigger time in the process.
 
So yes, likely much more damage, and faster, done to barrels by improper cleaning then by reasonable shooting.
 
Shoot and enjoy and be really happy if you are able to shoot out a barrel or 2 or 3 or 4 in a life time!  Just think of all the fun you have had.
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[helotaxi]

The way I understand it, a quarter inch match rifle won't win many matches.

Depends on the match.  The world record group at 1000yds is right around 1/4 MOA.  The x-ring at 1k is 1 MOA, IIRC, and I don't think one has been "cleaned".  Benchrest might take better than a 1/4" rifle, but long range and practical matches don't take nearly that level of precision.  A rifle that will hold 1 MOA is good enough for practical.

The average guy will never burn out a barrel.

That is quite true.

[222]

My 243 has had lots of rounds shoot dare I say maybe 7-10,000 rounds and still shoots pdogs and even deer. Is it loose more than likely and have been thinking of shooting for a group. Because my son dropped it and broke the scope so replaced it now so will be sighting it in I'll shoot it for some groups, (normal sight in is set up soup can at about 100 yards aim at the bottom and when hitting it near of the top I'm happy) shooting groups soon for deer season. Make me wonder will it group or shoot as bad as the rifle looks (nearly 40 years as a pickup gun). First deer, pronghorn, coyote all with that rifle.

[mrbigtexan]

Thanks guys.  Now that I thik about it, so far I've done more damage to the barrel with a boresnake and a screw driver than I have with ammo so I think I have to worry about my tinkering more than my shooting!   Also I just found out how cheap take off barrels are on ebay!  Wow $35 for a never fired barrel is fantastic.  What do ya'll think is a good price for a barrel install?  Gonna have to go all the way to Montgomery to find a 'smith but a friend of mine says he knows the guy and can get me a good deal.  The reason I want to rebarrel is I really don't need a .243, but my best friend already has a win model 70 carbine in .243 so I thought we could just use the same reloading equipment that way.  Long story short I have a .223 handi rifle that's a solid MOA shooter, a Marlin 30-30 for short range, a Ruger 10/22 for small stuff and sustained fire, and a 12ga for everything else.  I have no need for an "inbetween rifle",  but I don't have a mid-long range deer rifle (200-300 yds). Well, gotta go to school an' git suma that fancy book-learnin'!

i wouldnt consider it an inbetween rifle, from what you mentioned, it outperforms everything you have! it exactly fills that 200-300 yd deer rifle your thinking about. you have a great cartridge and i think you would be impressed with it. im having great results with h4831sc with both hornady and speer 100gr bullets. the 87 gr vmax is a great one with varget.

[tdoor]

Have a 243 in a rem 788  bought it new in 1972,  would guess it has had about 10,000 rounds through it,  bought a new savage in 1990 and the barrel was gone in 2,000 rounds.  My gunsmith said that the barrel was to soft to last.  I am building another 243 on a m-48 yugo action, turning down a used target barrel that I was given to the military profile, lots of lathe work done but a lot to go.  Love the 243

[Squib]

why not keep the bullets a bit farther out on handloads to stop the bullet from having to "jump" into sloppy rifling in a burnt out barrel?  it seems that would solve the problem pretty well to me?  use softer jacketed bullets to "hug" what rifling is left (sierra bullets cores are pressed into their jackets cold with lube, very thin jacket backed by soft lead- FYI). 

[Drilling Man]

why not keep the bullets a bit farther out on handloads to stop the bullet from having to "jump" into sloppy rifling in a burnt out barrel?  it seems that would solve the problem pretty well to me?  use softer jacketed bullets to "hug" what rifling is left (sierra bullets cores are pressed into their jackets cold with lube, very thin jacket backed by soft lead- FYI).

  The shot out bbls that i've seen, were pitted more than a total loss of rifleing where a bullet could just be seated out to take up the space.
 
  As for Sierra bullets, are you saying the bullet cores (lead) is lubed before going into the jackets?
 
  DM

[Squib]

that was my impression on touring the factory, as for what the fluid was, I cannot remember (might not have even asked).  my point is that it's not "bonded" by any heat treatment or cannelure, which is my basis for reasoning that it's more malleable and might grip better.  as you stated, my idea is to compensate for throat erosion causing shallow rifling and increased throat to rifling distance, not porous and abrasive issues.  as for that.... wax rubbed into place after every cleaning to reduce the drag maybe?  it's not porous if the pores are filled!

don't forget to fire a couple rounds after to smooth that gunk out BEFORE trying for groups though.

[Drilling Man]

  I've been swageing bullets for MANY years, and i've never seen anyone lube cores BEFORE putting them into jackets.  In fact it's counter productive to accuracy, and a BIG TIME no no in a hunting bullet.
 
  A lubed up core, separating from a jacket, is almost an instant bullet failure.
 
  DM

[MZ5]

Every major cup and core bullet out there that I happen to know of has some sort of lube on the jacket or core or both before insertion.  And yes, I've been in the factory during production, and seen and felt the lube.  Not the amount nor type, perhaps, as may have been used 50 years ago (or maybe it is; I wouldn't know), but it's there.

EDIT:  Speer's Hot-Cor, whose core is poured in, is one that I don't know of but it wouldn't surprise me if that jacket is cleaned/degreased before the core is poured in.

[huntswithdogs]

While I realize this is an older thread, Piero, if you burn out the barrel on your new 700, then somebody, whether it's you or Remington, ain't doing their job right! I've had my 243 for over 30 years and have heated it up more than once. Short of going back thru my loading book and counting them, I have no idea as to how many rounds have gone down the barrel of this rifle. Know that I'm a shooter and a hunter so its been quite a few. Still holds under an inch with most loads. About the only thing I've found that it does not like was some 60something grain bullets a guy gave me. If I'd had more than that handfull, I imagine I'da got them to shoot too. The few that I've had folks tell me were "shot out", needed some real good attention where cleaning was concerned. Use some sense, keep it clean(copper and fouling) and don't shoot it until the barrel is drooping. This rifle should out last you by a year or 2.


HWD 

[Drilling Man]

  My jackets and cores get lube, BUT the cores get the lube cleaned off them once they go in the jacket to be swaged into place!  Not doing so, is just asking for the core to "slip" in the jacket when the bullet expands.
 
  DM