BUG- Back Up Gun

[mcwoodduck]

A while ago someone was talking about a BUG class and was talking bout how the teacher had the person shooting the back up gun with the weak hand and the primary gun unb the strong hand.
I thought this strange.
1) if you are going for a BUG the primary gun is either out of ammo or disabled.
2) If you are going to shoot for accuracy wouldn't you put the smaller back up gun in the strong hand and make hits with it and hits with the weak hand with the primary gun?
The Sights are usually better with a primary and usually longer radius.  The idea of having the BUG out is to make hits and putting it in your weak hand did not make sense to me.
What do you think?  Bug in the weak hand or strong in a two gun senario?

[keith44]

my back up is a .22 Magnum NAA Mini, I practice shooting it with each hand, but only to contact ranges.  By the time I need the mini, things are very bad, the primary gun is out of reach or out of commission.

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly i think that a gun in each hand is better served by the movie industry then a real self defense senerio. I would have to beleive that doing it would do nothing but reduce the chances you have of making hits period. It would be tough enough for most civilians to keep there crap together enough to shoot accurately under pressure with one handgun and trying to control and hit with two would be a joke.

[Savage]

Got in the habit of carrying the BUG on the weak side accessible to the off hand when in uniform. I wanted to be able to access a gun with either hand if necessary. I have continued to carry my mouse gun on that side even when it's the only one I have with me. When I shoot that gun at the range, I draw from concealment and shoot it with the off hand. I can make good hits on a B27 target out to 10yds or so.
The only reason I'd be using the BUG is if my primary was out of action. None of this gun in both hands BS.
Savage

[williamlayton]

BUG ??
Somehow I see the reality of this BUG-----on the other hand (strong hand  ) I cannot, for my personal protection, see the reality of the need.
Sounds good---in my situation---sounds most improbable.
You do it your way and be safe.
Blessings

[williamlayton]

NOW---If'n I was in a battlezone or acting as a peace officer---I might have several other options besides my primary.
Blesssings

[Savage]

It's pretty rare that I carry two guns now days. I know it's a gamble, but I stay out of places where I'm more likely to need a gun. Much less two. The one is just there for comfort. Clint Smith is going nuts right now. I'm sure he's reading this.    While I'm confessing, I only carry one flashlight, take that Clint!!
Savage

[mcwoodduck]

personaly i think that a gun in each hand is better served by the movie industry then a real self defense senerio. I would have to beleive that doing it would do nothing but reduce the chances you have of making hits period. It would be tough enough for most civilians to keep there crap together enough to shoot accurately under pressure with one handgun and trying to control and hit with two would be a joke.

I agree with you that shooting with both a primary and back up at the same time is improbable and would not make for anything other than a really bad movie.  Anyone teaching it I would leave their class.  You would use the primary to deal with what ever threats you have and when or if needed pull the BUG and use it as a primary,  But let's say you are at a shooting event like IDPA or some other tactical type shoot and a BUG is part of the shoot would you move your primary to your weak hand or would you use the BUG in the weak hand?

[SHOOTALL]

If you have ever been in a roit or crowd gone crazy you may have seen an example of having two guns out at one time being a good thing. You may be attacked from several directions at once and you may not have time to draw if the first gun goes dry. A gang encounter may be a good example. I know folks will say you shoot once and they run . Not what I have seen while you shoot they do also. Remember some gang members are X military from other countries . As for pratice , be able to shoot any weapon you tote with either hand and either hand alone or both . Be able to rack a slide with one hand or load a revolver or auto with one hand same for rifle or shotgun.
It would be kind of those who attack good people to all follow the same MO so we could pratice one way to combat the attack but those bad guys just won't show any respect .

[Savage]

As for pratice , be able to shoot any weapon you tote with either hand and either hand alone or both . Be able to rack a slide with one hand or load a revolver or auto with one hand same for rifle or shotgun.

Absolute truth here.  I consider these skills mandatory. I try to practice one hand manuplations frequently.
Savage

[mcwoodduck]

I try to practice one hand manuplations frequently.
Savage

tell us about your gun training, not your self dating .

[JeffG]

Double-weilding is not a skill I practice much. Shooting weak hand, especially with my BUG I do often. Bullets tend to find shooting hands during a gunfight. My gun hand might be inop. I might need my strong hand to open doors, start a vehicle, drag someone to safety or stop bleeding. Being able to shoot well with my bug in my week hand makes sense...

[mcwoodduck]

Double-weilding is not a skill I practice much. Shooting weak hand, especially with my BUG I do often. Bullets tend to find shooting hands during a gunfight. My gun hand might be inop. I might need my strong hand to open doors, start a vehicle, drag someone to safety or stop bleeding. Being able to shoot well with my bug in my week hand makes sense...

I under stand being able to shoot a BUG with your weak hand.
But my question still is if a shoot required you to shoot both your primary and BUG would you put the BUG in your weak hand or would you put the primary in the weak hand and shoot the BUG in your strong hand.

[Dee]

I would put the "BUG" where it was easily accessible. Kinda like I did when I carried one. But I have never been, nor could I imagine, having been in some pretty tough situations, in a shooting, trying to waste ammo by shooting both at once. I never shot below master level in qualifying in 20 years on a combat course, and it still never occurred to me to grab my BUG in the shootings I was involved in, or near shootings.
I would concentrate on gettin it done with the one in my hand. The idea sounds like good TV, if one has a vivid enough imagination.JMO

[JeffG]

My BUG would stay in my weak hand for punch out and short range shots. I am better one hand with my strong hand and could take advantage of longer shots.

[mcwoodduck]

I would put the "BUG" where it was easily accessible. Kinda like I did when I carried one. But I have never been, nor could I imagine, having been in some pretty tough situations, in a shooting, trying to waste ammo by shooting both at once. I never shot below master level in qualifying in 20 years on a combat course, and it still never occurred to me to grab my BUG in the shootings I was involved in, or near shootings.
I would concentrate on gettin it done with the one in my hand. The idea sounds like good TV, if one has a vivid enough imagination.JMO

Dee,
I agree with you that it makes no sense to have both guns out at once.
I find it strange that the guy teaching the class would suggest such a thing and then have the BUG in the weak hand.
After hearing this it made me wonder who is running these training schools.
 

[dead dog]

what if your primary was out of ammo and you were hit in the strong hand. You would have to defend yourself with your bug in the weak hand.
As Far as IDPA the stag discription would tell you which hand or hands to use and with which weapon.

[SHOOTALL]

or it might depend on which side of the truck you are seated on

[mcwoodduck]

what if your primary was out of ammo and you were hit in the strong hand. You would have to defend yourself with your bug in the weak hand.
As Far as IDPA the stag discription would tell you which hand or hands to use and with which weapon.

I am not saying you should not know how to shoot the back up with your weak hand.  When I practice I practice strong hand strong hand supported, weak hand and weak hand supported.As well as transition from strong to weak hand. (with out doing a boarder shift )
My points are;
1) it does not make sense to me to have two guns out , and why this guy is teaching it in his class is questionable to me.  I am not going to say who as I got it second hand and do not want to meline someone that may not have said that.
2) Let's say you were in a situation like Shootall said and it made sense to have both guns out. (lets say you are defending yourself in a crowd and guarding a corner to keep people grom comming around either side of a building or hall ways.  One gun aimed left and one right.)  My point is that the longer sight radius of the primary would make it easier to make hits with the weak hand and to make hits with the bug in the strong hand.
Yes I understand that the shoot would determine what hand you use, or they may not?  "you are going ot draw your primary and engage two targets, move to the next box draw your BUG and engage the 8 targets two handed 4 with the bug 4 with the primary." 

[Savage]

I try to practice one hand manuplations frequently.
Savage

tell us about your gun training, not your self dating .
[/quote

Good one! Sorry I missed seeing it right away----- 
Savage

[dead dog]

just because its a two gun senario dosn't mean you have both out at once,unless your back in the days of cowboys and indians and your dueling like clint eastwood.
 In a three gun match what would you do, have your rifle in one hand and your shotgun in the other with your pistol in your mouth.
 
I think you might have misunderstod what you read or heard.

[dead dog]

2) Let's say you were in a situation like Shootall said and it made sense to have both guns out. (lets say you are defending yourself in a crowd and guarding a corner to keep people grom comming around either side of a building or hall ways.  One gun aimed left and one right.)  My point is that the longer sight radius of the primary would make it easier to make hits with the weak hand and to make hits with the bug in the strong hand.

 
I understand about having two guns out for the situation you have described but who in their right mind would let themselves get cornered like that. What if people came from both sides at once?BYE BYE!
 
I hope I did the qoute thing right.

[dead dog]

well the qoute's there but not by itself,oh well next time.

[mcwoodduck]

just because its a two gun senario dosn't mean you have both out at once,unless your back in the days of cowboys and indians and your dueling like clint eastwood.
 In a three gun match what would you do, have your rifle in one hand and your shotgun in the other with your pistol in your mouth.
 
I think you might have misunderstod what you read or heard.

I understood what I heard about the guy telling about the class and what he did as he was demostrating shooting and drawing with his fingers.  Now it may matter as he had two of the same guns as his Primary and BUG.  Both were sub compact autos.  But again it startled me that he was talking about a teacher having both guns out.  The other guy in the conversation was very interested in the class and was activly listening to the shooter telling about the class and questions and senerios were bantered back and forth.  Again I was at the conversation about the class but had not taken part in the class and do not want to say the class or the training facility untill I can verify it but it made no sense to me to draw a second gun while threats were still there and activly defending your self while the primary was working.
And in three gun matches your rifle or shot gun are staged somewhere in the course you are not traveling with all three on you in the course. And if it is your BUG you would have it in a holster of some kind on you.  But you may have just started Pirate three gun where you climb over a rail with a knife in your teeth.  ARR Matey!

[painted horse]

So now we have "civilians" who need back up guns??? How bout' a BUG for yer BUG, or maybe a Josey Wales setup. Two shoulder holsters two on the hip, you could still do a couple ankle jobs, maybe a mini on the belt buckle, knife or two in the boot, (most probably wear low quarters though, maybe "tennis shoes" for quicker response time) one between the shoulder blades, hey, wear a trench coat then you could hang a shotgun from the shoulder, that'd be cool, (think I saw that in a movie) sometimes I just sit in awe....

[dead dog]

LMAO!!!!!!!!
Strang class I would like to go just to hear what the heck he was explaning to the class.
I like the knife idea !!!!!!
Check this vid out.

[SHOOTALL]

I get amused when folks make fun of others who find a need for a BUG or such. I would suggest you look into where some of us live and work. If you have not experinced a work place shooting , ramdom shooting , drive by shooting or other unplesant activity don't comdem those who have and find a real need for BUG or reloads or other equipment that they feel offers them a chance at getting home.

[Spirithawk]

I don't care what firearm you carry they all have the potential to fail you for a wide variety of reasons. Mechanical failure or loss of weapon in a scuffle sure is a possibility one shouldn't ignore. Lose that primary and you'll either be glad you have a backup or quite possibly finding your last thought being you wished you did have one. I carry a spare mag  for my primary firearm, a backup firearm and a quality knife. My primary fails me I don't wish to be standing there with my only defense being a poor excuse for a rock! I carry the knife because it will do things a gun can't.  I carry all for the same reason I carry the primary to begin with.....better to have and not need than to need and not have! Isn't that the bare basic reason we all carry in the first place?
 

 So Painted, why do you need to carry at all? Do you feel the need for a particular caliber? A paticular gun? Doesn't your area have a Sheriff's Office or Police Department? Do you think you owe anyone an explanation for you choices? I pretty much doubt it. So why insinuate other's owe you one?
 

[Mike in Virginia]

I think I'd rather carry one gun and some extra mags than another gun.  I think I could reload quicker than I could get to the BUG.  However it would make sense if your main gun failed. 

[mcwoodduck]

So now we have "civilians" who need back up guns? ?? How bout' a BUG for yer BUG, or maybe a Josey Wales setup. Two shoulder holsters two on the hip, you could still do a couple ankle jobs, maybe a mini on the belt buckle, knife or two in the boot, (most probably wear low quarters though, maybe "tennis shoes" for quicker response time) one between the shoulder blades, hey, wear a trench coat then you could hang a shotgun from the shoulder, that'd be cool, (think I saw that in a movie) sometimes I just sit in awe....

Your description reminds me of a Bianchi comercial from the 80's where John Bianchi is wearing a white tux and standing next to a table.  He starts reaching here and there and pulling multiple guns from various holsters and saying what holster.  He has quite a pile of J and K frame revolvers and  1911 full size and comander models as well as the little Beretta 22's and Walther PP and PPK/s
But on another note I can see where a back up gun could be a better idea than a reload.
One of the best carry guns I had was a S&W M65 3" with a round butt.  It was stainless, small, and very powerfull but still controlable.  A J frame revolver would be better to carry then a speed loader.  Not much wider and no fumbeling with a speed loader.  Just draw.
And a Back up is not about need it is about want.  You do not need a spare tire on your car.  You want a spare tire on your car just in case.