Reloading brass 410

[mechanic]

I'm about to venture into reloading brass 410 cases.  Since there is no ready made tool I can find for this, I'm thinking all I really need is a primer punch and seater, easily made.
 
Using standard loadings, over powder and shot cards, and some felt wads under shot, could I not just drop some Elmer's glue or such like to seal instead of crimping?
 
I'm thinking sizing would be almost unnecessary in a double gun as long as both chambers were uniform with each other.
 
Since I have never loaded shot shells, just rifle and pistol, I pose this here for the critique of the experts!
 
Ben

[Ranger99]

yes you can.
i use either a miniscule dollop of elmer's
or a smear of silicone sealer on the overshot
card. i load regular plastic hulls this way also
with the crimp cut off.
if you buy the 1.75 wad guide fingers for
a mec loader, it'll help if you load any plastic
shells or using modern plastic wad columns.


and i'm not an expert by any stretch.
i just load the .410's because of the cost.


good luck with it

[darkgael]

The problem that you may have to solve is where to find components that fit. Drawn brass hulls are normally larger inside than plastic hulls are of the same bore or gauge. When I reload 12 gauge drawn brass hulls, I must use 11 gauge components, for 20 ga. brass, I use 18 ga. wads. That means assembing a traditional wad column as modern plastic wads are too small.
The same is true for .410 bore. The interior diameter is going to be larger than most components.
The exceptions to this are the lathe turned hulls from Rocky Mt. Cartridge Co. and .410 hulls that I make from anealled .303 British brass. 
Fiber wads for .44 cal pistols work. You can also punch out wads with a 7/16ths wad punch. I seal the wads with Duco Cement. It sticks to the brass better than Elmers.

Pete

[mechanic]

Thanks for the replies.  I had thought about the differences in was size, and I have some gasket punch's that I have made, one of which should be dead on to make my own.  Appreciate the tip about the Duco cement.  I'm sure there will be some trial and error on my part, but given the cost of  shotshells, and how much I and my grandchildren love to shoot, it will be worth the trouble.  I can buy 410 brass for about a dollar a pop, but given the low pressure, and no real need for sizing, they should last a good long time.
 
I have some old load books with Unique loading, and I have a lot of Unique powder.  Do any of you use it?
 
Ben

[reliquary]

I used wads made by  cutting them from a styrofoam fast-food takeout container, using a brass case.    Duco cement works on all of them, Elmer's will stick to some types of foam but not so well on others.  Run the edge of a thin knife blade around the inside of the case you use for a wad punch to make it cut better. 
 
My loads weren't made for velocity but for density of pattern at close-snake range.  I used  about half an ounce of  #6 shot and around 6 grains of Unique. 

[mechanic]

I used wads made by  cutting them from a styrofoam fast-food takeout container, using a brass case.    Duco cement works on all of them, Elmer's will stick to some types of foam but not so well on others.  Run the edge of a thin knife blade around the inside of the case you use for a wad punch to make it cut better. 
 
My loads weren't made for velocity but for density of pattern at close-snake range.  I used  about half an ounce of  #6 shot and around 6 grains of Unique. 

Excellent, thanks.
 
Ben

[reliquary]

I got the threads mixed up and thought, for a minute, that this was on your .410-.44 H&R discussion...I loaded my stuff for a Judge.  If you're going to use them in the H&R, you aren't limited to my "light" loads. 

[mechanic]

I'm looking at buying a new 410 sxs.  Something new to play with.
 
Ben

[PowPow]

...i load regular plastic hulls this way also with the crimp cut off...

Are you saying you don't crimp it, just glue a cap on it?
So you could take some spent 3" hulls and cut them off to 3" OAL, 2-1/2", or even shorter if desired?


Ben doesn't realize it but he is draggin me down the 410 sxs buying road with him.
If you don't have to crimp it, seems like that gets reloading down to adding a dowel to the existing rifle loading toys.

[mechanic]

Powpow, you can get brass 410 in 2 1/2" for about a buck a piece.  Load up with shot, or you can take small split shot sinkers, crimp them about an inch apart on a piece of mono line and make some BAD buckshot.  Or at least so I'm told...
 
Ben

[PowPow]

Wouldn't you have to full length size the brass for a sxs?
Seems like the two chambers won't be EXACTLY the same size, so once you shoot it in the bigger side, it won't go in the smaller one.
(Do you have to fl size plastic shot shells after you shot them, even in a single barrel?)

[mechanic]

I'm hoping that the chambers will be close, and I won't see much expansion in that low pressure...time will tell..I may have to come up with a sizer.
 
Ben

[Ranger99]

on mine i cut off the crimp where
the fold is. you don't have to of course,
it just makes stuffing all the goods in easier,
especially if using a modern wad column.
and of course, you won't be able to put those
trimmed hulls through a press after you bob
'em off.


after you put in the shot charge, you put
an overpowder card in and glue it or silicone
it or whatever and let it dry. some folks use
waterglass.


and no, you don't need anything other than
some basic things to deprime, reprime, and
measure out correct portions of powder and shot.
i use mec wad fingers to help get the stuff past
the case mouth, but it not a crucial thing.

[darkgael]

Wouldn't you have to full length size the brass for a sxs?
Seems like the two chambers won't be EXACTLY the same size, so once you shoot it in the bigger side, it won't go in the smaller one.
(Do you have to fl size plastic shot shells after you shot them, even in a single barrel?)

I reload brass hulls for 12/20/.410. Never had to resize them.
About Unique...obviously some of you use it. Normally, however, it is too fast a powder for .410s. The standard choices are H110, AA#9, IMR 4227, Alliant 2400, Li'l Gun......the same stuff that we use in magnum pistol cartridges.
Waterglass (liquid sodium silicate): I used to use it. It works but is best for shells that you are going to use fairly soon after reloading them. If stored for a while, the coating dries out and turns into powder.
It also takes longer to dry than Duco. A lot longer.

after you put in the shot charge, you put
an overpowder card in and glue it or silicone

OP cards are a bit thick at a nominal 0.125"; they are more likely to spoil the pattern a bit. The lighter and thinner overshot cards at 0.030" may be a better choice. You've can cut them from milk cartons.
Pete

[Ranger99]

mistake on my part.
should have wrote "overshot'

[SHOOTALL]

Look up Blaistic products on line they may have all the imfo and supplies you need.

[reliquary]

That post about the split-shot and fishing line line...it works, up to a point.  I did it, back in the 50s, with a 16-gauge using split shot sinkers and braided nylon line. 
 
It held together at short range...I didn't measure the distance, just patterned it on an old piece of galvanized roof tin, probably something like 20-25 steps.   But it was way "off" from where the bead was holding; very erratic flight.  Never tried it on a deer, as a result.

[Rustyinfla]

   Ben,
     What kind of SxS are you looking at? I keep banging away with my old H&R. Thinking about a double from time to time but haven't seen one yet that really got to me yet.

   I bought some 9.3X74R brass a while back to make some brass shells from. If you can find someone shooting .303 British that can be used as well, but it will be shorter. Both of these will have to have the brass anealed and blown out. To blow the brass out use a small charge of your Unique and fill the case to the top with cornmeal or grits. I know the Magtec brass shells aren't that expensive. It's just alternatives to do the same thing.

   I haven't had a chance to finish any of these myself all this is from online research I've done.
 

[mechanic]

I have ordered and put money down on a Stoeger SXS, 26" barrels.  I've held and played with one and liked the way it was put together for the money.  Better fit and finish than some of the used Stephens I have looked at.
 
Picking it up Friday!  I've got 50 pcs. of the Magtech brass ordered, so I should be set for a while just playing around with it.
 
I took some old hulls I had, and have played around and fashioned myself some loading tools.  I can use a shell holder I found in the junk drawer, which fits fine in a piece of pipe I had laying around.  That I can chuck in the vise, and I can deprime and reprime with my Lee Loader for my 45-70.  A wooden dowel will suffice for everything else.
 
I've already cut some wad from cork bulletin board material, and cards from a slicky cardboard shoe box. 
 
Now I've got to wait a few weeks to shoot it but I should be ready!
 
Ben

[darkgael]

Just a pic FYI. The third one from the top is made from .303 British brass, annealed and fire-formed in a Stoeger Coach gun.
 http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/PeteDoyle/5cf1f29c.jpg[/img]]

[SHOOTALL]

Barkal makes a very strong 410
As for resizing brass shells not sure you have to . Most reloading tools are for the crimp and primer removal.

[Rustyinfla]

   I looked at the Russian .410 while at Gander Mountain. It was pretty slick.

[Iowa Fox]

Its sneaking up on almost 40 years ago that I ventured into 410 reloading. At the time I was a dyed in the wool 12 ga guy reloading several thousand a year. One day, thanks to a new little 410, I decided to jump into 410 reloading for just a few rounds a year. I had an uncle that was shooting sparrows in the feed lot with a single shot 410 in which he polished the chamber to accept 45LC cases. He made his own tools and wads. He had fun dusting sparrows at 10 to 15 yards. Since he was using brass cases I thought I'm going to use brass 410 cases. I could never get the results I wanted using brass cases. Next I purchased a Lee loader and went to town with 2 1/2 & 3 inch using paper cases. Much better and lots more fun. Then plastic cases started to appear along with plastic wads. Much better but now the little Lee loader was leaving something to be desired. One day I picked up a 410 Mec loader for next to nothing from a guy. Wow! Plastic cases, good plastic wads, and a good loader. Its the only way to go for a 410 and have fun.

[casper_zip]

Hey Mechanic:
A good "sealer" for your brass 410 cases is Lee Liquid Alox. It works fine, will hold your stuff in, and you get the extra benefit of lubing your bore every shot, slick deal. Just a dab will do, don't over do it. Best or only way is to warm it up, and seal your cases, and let it "dry" overnite if possible. It will harden up really good. Now, don't know if you can rough house throw them in your hunting bag, but I love the way they do for me. Also, the 444 cases work better for me than the 303 and any others I've tried. I really like the 444 cases for the 410, but I use the all brass magtech. You can buy oversize wads especially for 410 at CIRCLE FLY. Just Yahoo or Google for circle fly and they have lots of stuff and cheap too. Of course, there are lots more suppliers out there, just search.
 
Hope you got your stolen guns back and they have found the scum that done that to you.
I lost 3 fine ones in Shreveport several years ago, police said they would be traded on the streets for dope.
 
Best,
casper_zip

[mechanic]

Thanks Casper,
 
I have settled with the insurance, and am waiting on the check so the guns are goners.  They now belong to the ins. co.
 
I got lucky and found an as new Stoeger just like the one stolen, except with shorter barrels...coach length and saved a good chunk of change.  I don't forsee the shorter barrels making a great difference in a 410, and it really swings well.
 
I've been using a hot glue gun to seal my loads.  I made up a wooden block with a hole just big enough for the primer and anvil on standard 410, or the primer on the brass.  I use a pin punch in my drill press to push them out.  I then flip the block over, center the case over a new 209 primer, and seat them with a wooden dowel.  My Lee hand loader will load the brass case primers.
 
I then use cork bulletin board material for over powder wads, and milk carton for over shot.
 
Works well enough to kill bushy tails or for the kids to pop up and at much less cost than loaded 410.
 
Ben

[casper_zip]

Good,
Glad you did get your insurance money on these. It's actually fun (in a way) to load shells the ole country boy way. Mostly I use the ole Lee hand tools to load my shells. I have both the 2 1/2" and 3" Mec 600's for my 410's but I also have a place here in my computer room set up to do some reloading, so, I just load my 410's here, or sit on the fireplace front, tap out, and retap primers in.
The 410 when reloading is cheap to shoot, huge fun factor, and really is a deadly killer when used with common sense. I am into shooting slugs with mine, really enjoying that, too. Right now, using round lead balls, and also shooting factory slug rounds to find out what does best.
 
Best,
casper
 

[rem700-3]

on mine i cut off the crimp where
the fold is. you don't have to of course,
it just makes stuffing all the goods in easier,
especially if using a modern wad column.
and of course, you won't be able to put those
trimmed hulls through a press after you bob
'em off.


after you put in the shot charge, you put
an overpowder card in and glue it or silicone
it or whatever and let it dry. some folks use
waterglass.


and no, you don't need anything other than
some basic things to deprime, reprime, and
measure out correct portions of powder and shot.
i use mec wad fingers to help get the stuff past
the case mouth, but it not a crucial thing.

I used a small punch to deprime and a 1/4 inch drive socket on an extension with a drilled brass plate to prime. I started out using cheap super glue to seal but quickly realized that silicone didnt damage the plastic hulls as much