Pot plants as big as trees. This'll get some of ya drooling.

[BUGEYE]

(someone like you may get a kick out of witnessing one of these).

someone like me will never chicken out from the fight to get that poison off the streets.

[SHOOTALL]

It would seem there has been enough money and time wasted to prove to anyone that the war on pot has failed . Why continue to waste time and money ?
Tax pot and use funds to really stop hard drugs.
 If the loss of a loved one is to be used when the cause is someone abusing something then should we ban food ? make up ? news papers ? correcting children ? booze ? ( already failed) or any other number of things people do while driving ? Its not the pot , make up etc that cause the accident it was lack of self control by the driver. Banning pot or any one of the other causes won't stop it any more than banning guns will stop crime . In both cases the punishment for lack of self control should be enough to encourage all to restrain themselves. And that my friend is the problem with a liberal country NO ONE IS HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHOICES THEY MAKE EVEN WHEN IT KILLS SOMEONE !

[BUGEYE]

It would seem there has been enough money and time wasted to prove to anyone that the war on pot has failed . Why continue to waste time and money ?
Tax pot and use funds to really stop hard drugs.
 If the loss of a loved one is to be used when the cause is someone abusing something then should we ban food ? make up ? news papers ? correcting children ? booze ? ( already failed) or any other number of things people do while driving ? Its not the pot , make up etc that cause the accident it was lack of self control by the driver. Banning pot or any one of the other causes won't stop it any more than banning guns will stop crime . In both cases the punishment for lack of self control should be enough to encourage all to restrain themselves. And that my friend is the problem with a liberal country NO ONE IS HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHOICES THEY MAKE EVEN WHEN IT KILLS SOMEONE !

I can sure go along with that last sentence.  when someone takes a life because of their own recreation choices, the punishment should be terrifying.

[williamlayton]

Any mmore than a street racer whose car goes wild and kills watchers?
I really don't think you have thought thru all of this BE.
Suppliers---maybe liquor store owners/bars/bootleggers--are not the answer. Heck, there is too much money in it.
We saw the results of the maimed from bootleg whiskey.
Sure, some will drug themselves to death---always have.
You saw that you won't give up----what are you doing?---Talking sense into someone?
I have been around this old world going on 72 years and it has always befuddeled me that some folks do what they do in the name of fun.
You will NEVER, EVER stop stupidity/accidents/idiots---these folks are way to smart.
I say legalize it and offer no assistance to those who do---it is their life, let them do what they want----seems they are doing it everyday---In spite of what YOU do.
Blessings

[BUGEYE]

Any mmore than a street racer whose car goes wild and kills watchers?
I really don't think you have thought thru all of this BE.
Suppliers---maybe liquor store owners/bars/bootleggers--are not the answer. Heck, there is too much money in it.
We saw the results of the maimed from bootleg whiskey.
Sure, some will drug themselves to death---always have.
You saw that you won't give up----what are you doing?---Talking sense into someone?
I have been around this old world going on 72 years and it has always befuddeled me that some folks do what they do in the name of fun.
You will NEVER, EVER stop stupidity/accidents/idiots---these folks are way to smart.
I say legalize it and offer no assistance to those who do---it is their life, let them do what they want----seems they are doing it everyday---In spite of what YOU do.
Blessings

so we cave in, throw up our hands and quit trying.
when you quit trying, the problem will balloon.  and since you are an admitted doper, I understand why you want to legalize that brain poison.  I will pray for you.

[yellowtail3]

so we cave in, throw up our hands and quit trying.
when you quit trying, the problem will balloon.

Yeah, that's what they said when we got out of Vietnam and ended prohibition. More likely... they need to keep the war a-goin' in order to keep the pensions flowin', the Rice Bowls full, and fiefdoms intact.

and since you are an admitted doper, I understand why you want to legalize that brain poison.  I will pray for you.

Bugeye, you're layin' on the contempt pretty thick this morning....

[SHOOTALL]

How are you caving in ? by not pizzing away money ? by not supporting a losing cause ? fact is we would all rather never see a drunk or drug user hurt anyone or for that matter a gun owner , car owner etc. but we also want to be free and you won't have freedom if you prohibit all actions. you punish the abusers not the object.

[williamlayton]

Don't be hard on BE. I said what I did and am not ashamed. I been called worse.
One more thought Shootall, the drugs punish the abuser nore than any law can.
I used to drink, but was not an alchoholic---I smoked dope but was not a slave to it either.
Lucky ? Hummmm, I say I new my limits.
Blessings

[BUGEYE]

Tax pot and use funds to really stop hard drugs.

huh?  the hard drugs is where they make real money.  I don't think legalizing pot is gonna help stop hard drugs.  look how long they've been trying.
the answer is to make the penalties tough enough to be a deterent and people who claim to be law abiding should really obey the law and quit using that poison.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana

I was stupid for smoking that one 42 years ago.

[SHOOTALL]

BUGEYE , yes make the punishment hard enough to keep people from trying it . Use the tax money from pot to catch them if they do use/sell hard drugs . But at over 100 bucks an oz someone is making big bucks on pot i would think.

[finisher]

BUGEYE , yes make the punishment hard enough to keep people from trying it . Use the tax money from pot to catch them if they do use/sell hard drugs . But at over 100 bucks an oz someone is making big bucks on pot i would think.

*************
Shootall, on the street, for pharmaceutical grade stuff, it is actually more like $400 to $500 an ounce. and that is at whole sale prices. It works the same way that it does in legal retail. The street dealer doesn't actually pocket all that money. In fact the profit margin at this level is between 20% to 45% (still not bad) but it depends on the market and keep in mind that over time, a dealer loses his "pound" price as the stuff dries.


If the dealer is not a user himself, then there is a good chunk of cash to be made at this level but the risks are higher.

[Victor3]

 How fast does the average pot smoker go through that $500 ounce? Sounds like a rich man's vice. 
 
 If I brought home a $500 bottle of Tequila (I like a good tequila    ), my Wife would either kill me or make sure it lasted me a year.

[williamlayton]

I have no idea what an bag of dope goes for these days--$500 seems a little wild, but I can't comment--?. A bag of dope in the day that I participated would last awhile--at $20/25 a bag, I didn't keep track.
I do know that in Amsterdam, I bought one fat boy for $1.50 American---already rolled, had tobacco as a filler, was very mild--as smokes go--and I had a very mellow high--about as good, as I recall, as the average joint did back in the day.
I sat next to one fellow and we were having a very plesant conversation---but, he quickly went into hisowself from whatever he bought to smoke.
Personally---I enjoyed the high I got and did not want to go any further. Now, boys, from what I observed at the coffee house I visited---there are more varieties of smoke than I ever knew existed.
Like drinking--you can enjoy a very plesant drink or two--or you can get wasted and say "hold my beer and watch this", as Hank Jr said about his rowdy friends.
Folks tend to do what they want to do, so, in this regard--like bars--you need to watch where you go & who you hang with . Everything in life is the same way.
Blessings

[BUGEYE]

putting the government in charge of regulating and TAXING dope will do nothing but send the dopers scooting back to their street-corner dealer.

[williamlayton]

BE
Muchlike putting govenors on cars will do nothing to prevent folks from doing their own work on cars to make them go faster that the speed limit?!.
Blessings

[ironglow]

    As the old redneck said; " wrapping barbed wire around the railing didn't make my crazy uncle stop sliding down the railing...but it sure slowed him up a lot" 
 
   Outlawing murder, rape, robbery, extortion and arson..didn't stop all these activities in their tracks....  but I wouldn't like to be involved in a culture where they are all made legal! 
 
   Actually, I wish people normally had enough backbone to refuse addicting  situations..but there are weak ones.  Other, even more egregious habits..such as arson, pedophilia and willingly or intentionally spreading certain diseases are outlawed, in order to protect the public in general. 
  Certain minimal rules are necessary, a culture without rules and guidelines is anarchy..that's been tried and it doesn't last!
 
  I think I am about to leave this discussion anyway, since despite the vibrant verbosity and elegant elocution...there seems to be no reconciling of the immovable attitudes on either side.
 
 

[williamlayton]

It is coffee conversation---there is no voteing ballot and no one to count.
We have laws that are insane and continue to spend money on them and no one gives a hoot.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

I guess we should out law air condition since there are alot of yourt woofing it these days by the thinking of some posting . 

[finisher]

    As the old redneck said; " wrapping barbed wire around the railing didn't make my crazy uncle stop sliding down the railing...but it sure slowed him up a lot" 
 
   Outlawing murder, rape, robbery, extortion and arson..didn't stop all these activities in their tracks....  but I wouldn't like to be involved in a culture where they are all made legal! 
 
   Actually, I wish people normally had enough backbone to refuse addicting  situations..but there are weak ones.  Other, even more egregious habits..such as arson, pedophilia and willingly or intentionally spreading certain diseases are outlawed, in order to protect the public in general. 
  Certain minimal rules are necessary, a culture without rules and guidelines is anarchy..that's been tried and it doesn't last!
 
  I think I am about to leave this discussion anyway, since despite the vibrant verbosity and elegant elocution...there seems to be no reconciling of the immovable attitudes on either side.

*************
Common now IG, You are comparing these actions (in RED) that have very direct, physically involved victims with that of the action of an individual consenting adult committing a PERSONAL indulgence in the PRIVACY of their own home.


This seems to be the main "grinding" point of the arguments from what I see.


As far as idiots who chose to endanger the public by making the choice of operating a vehicle or machinery or any other potentially hazardous task, we already have laws to deal with such irresponsibility. And in that respect, BUGEYE may be correct in saying that those penalties are somewhat lacking in effecting any kind of a deterrent.


Are we to create "The Morality/Character Police; the MCP (this is also an acronym for Master Control Program ironically [size=78%]) [/size]in the same fashion as George Orwell's "Thought Police" in his book "1984"? Trying to legally enforce character and morality in the world of man is like trying to hand out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

Short of building bombs or creating any other potentially mass destructive device, in a so called "free society", where do we draw the line between what consenting individuals do with, or to themselves  in the privacy of their home?

[finisher]

It is coffee conversation---there is no voteing ballot and no one to count.
We have laws that are insane and continue to spend money on them and no one gives a hoot.
Blessings

**************
 I give hoot William  .

[williamlayton]

Again----what are you doing about it except complaining?
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

he is supporting higher taxes to wage war on kids trying what presidents tried 

[BUGEYE]

individual consenting adult committing a PERSONAL indulgence in the PRIVACY of their own home.

how can we keep them at home after they alter their minds??  it hasn't worked too well for drunks.

[Anna]

individual consenting adult committing a PERSONAL indulgence in the PRIVACY of their own home.

how can we keep them at home after they alter their minds??  it hasn't worked too well for drunks.

Amen Bugeye, even the avid users of pot that I see at the clinic are what we call,Cotton Brains !
I've seen lab rats that had more snap than these guys do. Talk about a drop in IQ !
Oh sure they do seem to focus better, but only in one direction. And a problem that you or I could solve in a very short time takes them hours to complete .
So Dudes,unless your a surfer with little ambition in life. Go easy on the smoke.

[BUGEYE]

individual consenting adult committing a PERSONAL indulgence in the PRIVACY of their own home.

how can we keep them at home after they alter their minds??  it hasn't worked too well for drunks.

Amen Bugeye, even the avid users of pot that I see at the clinic are what we call,Cotton Brains !
I've seen lab rats that had more snap than these guys do. Talk about a drop in IQ !
Oh sure they do seem to focus better, but only in one direction. And a problem that you or I could solve in a very short time takes them hours to complete .
So Dudes,unless your a surfer with little ambition in life. Go easy on the smoke.

excellent post.  your first-hand experience will be welcome here.

[SHOOTALL]

individual consenting adult committing a PERSONAL indulgence in the PRIVACY of their own home.

how can we keep them at home after they alter their minds??  it hasn't worked too well for drunks.

well I ask how can we keep them from indulgence at home that hasn't worked either has it ? Better to offer a legal way to indulge and stiffin punishment for DUI's from anything even legal medication etc. Two things will happen some will not drive when they should not others will lose their right to drive for ever.

[williamlayton]

Anna has some good points--I agree.
My momma told me not to do some things---that I did because I wanted to see.
Anna would stiffle in order to control. In her own mind this is a good thing. I doubt that putting kids in a box creates a growing space.
Now---legalize and legalize age?  Well---that sure works doesn't it !!!
Now--I agree with the age thing--but--in the same thought, I know that kids will do what they want--they have since there were kids---good kids too.
There is always a percentage that fall over the edge--will always be. What I see BE and A saying is that they want to find a way to prevent this. Those are good intentions--really good intentions--so wa prohibition, brought on by good, well meaning folks--who could not think thru the idea of controlling.
Controllers are mostly well meaning but they can't see that their desires are their own desires.
Folks are going to go their own way. I have given up on folks doing what is bad for them----they are going to do what they want to do.
NOw--on MJ--I disagree that all are cottonball brained--some very smart and good folks have gone thru this MJ thing without the pitfalls of hard drugs.
I don't include myownself because I don't think I am all that smart---I do think well and I do think thru a situation and realize that there will always be dropouts and malcontents.
Blessings

[jlwilliams]

Congress needs to start smoking pot before their sessions- they might be able to agree on something.

  Would that be what they call a "joint session" of Congress?

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Anna:
"Amen Bugeye, even the avid users of pot that I see at the clinic are what we call,Cotton Brains !I've seen lab rats that had more snap than these guys do. Talk about a drop in IQ !"


If that is the case there are other influences going on there than just smoking. I went to a state college in the 70s. I would guess 80%+ of the students smoked weed at that time and maybe half that group smoked daily. Many were 3.5+GPA. Many graduated in four years and many went on to graduate degrees. The debate team through those years was always one of the top in the nation and most of the team were daily smokers and occasionally did LSD, mushrooms and speed let alone drinking. I have rarely seen where MJ was the only reason for someone not functioning well. Usually there was mental illness or some other emotional problem(s) that were the root cause,  the dope was just a symptom. My two cents worth with change.
GuzziJohn

[Anna]

Trying to come up with reasons to make any street drug legal. Is like putting lipstick on a pig , it's still a pig .