BIG Bore muzzle loader for African dangerous game

[EDELWEISS]

Im thinking of taking a muzzle loader to Africa for a Dangerous Game hunt.  Specifically Im interested in Lion and Plains game with the possibility of adding a Buffalo.  Ive hunted Africa with modern rifles and I was planning on a hunt for DG with a 577NE that I just picked up.  Then I saw a 4 Bore muzzle loader for sale and I started thinking about a muzzle loader hunt. 

Ive seen the Pedersoli Kodiak Double Rifle in 72 caliber and just saw their 72 caliber Gibbs African rifle (single shot).  So Im wondering about either of these (or something else) for Lion.  Hunting Lion is usually a close range affair, so its well within a muzzle loaders ability and Lion arent exactly thick skinned; plus Id have an armed PH next to me with a modern rifle.

I usually hunt Wild Boar in the states with my "African" guns; so I could field test loads before I headed over to Africa.

Thoughts?

Any experience with either of these rifles?

[keith44]

Pedersoli is very conservative with their loadings for their rifles.


Load with 80 grains of FFG black powder and patched .710 round ball.
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http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_191&products_id=3529


My .54x.54 is plenty accurate, but sight regulation is something else.  Like all double rifles there are but a few loads that shoot to the sights, the load that shoots best is definately not recommended by Pedersoli.


Since the 4 bore shoots a 1" ball, and would have been built for larger powder charges, I'd say go for the 4 Bore.

[P.A. Myers]

Watch the first 5 minutes of the old movie 'King Solomons Mines'. You will see Stewart Granger bust an elephant with a 4ga double. Animals were hurt when they filmed that one.

[Bear Rider]

I have a slug for a  4 bore rifle rattling around somewhere. I helped a fellow out who was prepping a muzzle loader for an african hunt. He had never shot a muzzle loader before, and was starting out in a BIG way. I moved shortly afterwards, so I never found out how it came out. It was fun to watch someone else fire that monster, but I had no desire whatsoever to subject myself to that much punishment.

[keith44]

...

 It was fun to watch someone else fire that monster, but I had no desire whatsoever to subject myself to that much punishment.

This reminded me of an article or book I read some time back about early Safari's with large muzzle loaders.  One fellow was writing about his experience with a 2 bore muzzle loader.  The recoil spun him "...'round like a weather cock..."  I am trying to find the article, and may post it later.




I did run across this though:


http://pacificriflecompany.blogspot.com/

[smokehouserex]

 
 
    Good Afternoon:
  In the 70's Navy Arms had a ad. for their magnum type muzzleloaders in 58 cal. for the Big 5 in Africa. It was used successfully on all of the big 5. They gave a load of 175 gr. of FFF powder and a 600 gr. projectile for a muzzle energy equal to the 458 win. mag..   I am not giving a personal recommendation for this load but Navy Arms did,  I bought one.  I have only shot 150 gr. of FFF with a 505 gr. bullet,,,, it was a really stout recoil,  I have not shot that load again!!!  I named the rifle Buffalo Gal.
  I think they are still available for about 700.00 IIRC from Navy Arms or maybe Dixie Arms.
  safeyt first
  HM
 

[rem700]

Ive seen the Pedersoli Kodiak Double Rifle in 72 caliber and just saw their 72 caliber Gibbs African rifle (single shot).  So Im wondering about either of these (or something else) for Lion.  Hunting Lion is usually a close range affair, so its well within a muzzle loaders ability and Lion arent exactly thick skinned; plus Id have an armed PH next to me with a modern rifle.

Lion + single shot + muzzle loader + close range affair =

[keith44]

Ive seen the Pedersoli Kodiak Double Rifle in 72 caliber and just saw their 72 caliber Gibbs African rifle (single shot).  So Im wondering about either of these (or something else) for Lion.  Hunting Lion is usually a close range affair, so its well within a muzzle loaders ability and Lion arent exactly thick skinned; plus Id have an armed PH next to me with a modern rifle.

Lion + single shot + muzzle loader + close range affair =

Pedersoli is very conservative with their loadings for their rifles.


Load with 80 grains of FFG black powder and patched .710 round ball.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_191&products_id=3529


My .54x.54 is plenty accurate, but sight regulation is something else.  Like all double rifles there are but a few loads that shoot to the sights, the load that shoots best is definately not recommended by Pedersoli.


Since the 4 bore shoots a 1" ball, and would have been built for larger powder charges, I'd say go for the 4 Bore.

ball load for a 12 ga is listed in the Lyman manual as 80 grains of 2F pushing a patched .690 roundball (weighing 494 grains) at 881 fps with 852 fr lbs energy.  Since the Pedersoli load lists 80 grains as max with a slightly larger ball, I strongly suggest something else.

[pab1]

If you have $5,000 burning a hole in your pocket you could pick up an 8 bore from October Country.

Here is part of the description from their site.

"For large and dangerous game the 8 Bore Rifle has been the traditional choice for hunters for over 200 years.  With one shot kills on Cape Buffalo, Elephants, and Hippos, plus other dangerous and North American game.  The October Country 8 Bore Rifle delivers the raw, devastating power demanded by these people.  They depended on them for their success and safety."

[BCarp]

There are these .69 cal rifles that use the big musket caps (I'd blue or brown the bright steel for hunting purposes) :
 
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2532
 
 
Lyman mold 685-069 throws a 730 grain hollow-based .685 minie for use in .69 cal rifles.  Quick loading and lots of wallop...!
 
 

[Bubber]

This guy is a gunsmith on another forum I go to. All of his work is BP firearms, mostly large bore and muzzleloading double rifles. In the last few years he has done a number of 8 and 4 bores. I find his work incredable. While not a muzzleloader he just finished a 2 bore jones underleaver. Yes it is not a muzzleloader but this thread made me think of it.
 
http://www.freewebs.com/stolzergunsmithing/

[Rock Home Isle]

There was a real nice, high quality publication that was published out of Wyoming called, "Blackpowder Hunting".
 
I subscribed to to this publication for many years and I do recall several articles about hunting African Game with a muzzleloader. There was a gun builder out of Ft. Collins, CO that submitted a whole series of articles about his work and the guns that he built expressly for hunting game in Africa.
 
I enjoyed several of his articles about the game that he took while hunting for dangerous game in Africa. I believe that his last name was ..."Geoff".

[Bear Rider]

This reminded me of an article or book I read some time back about early Safari's with large muzzle loaders.  One fellow was writing about his experience with a 2 bore muzzle loader.  The recoil spun him "...'round like a weather cock..."  I am trying to find the article, and may post it later.

It wasn't the same gun, but rather a 4-bore cartridge gun that I remember most clearly watching as an iron-pumper fired it. He was probably about 170 pounds, extremely fit, and braced for the recoil. He fired it standing. Despite his strength, the recoil drove him back three or four feet, turned him 180 degrees, and raised the barrel to the 11 o-clock position. I believe that he then had the presence of mind to raise the barrel to the 12 o-clock position when he found himself spun around and behind the firing line.

[Victor3]

 Should probably ask Don Heath over on the Africa hunting forum about this one...

[jedman]

   If I were to hunt lion , A 54 cal. shooting a Barnes 325 gr. all copper expander w/ sabot would be what I would trust.  The large diameter Barnes all copper slugs kill thiner skinned game faster than any lead ball or bullet.   This type of bullet might be to modern for your taste but they will put a 1" plus dia. hole thru most any game with more tissue destruction and complete penetration.
          Jedman