Author Topic: The Romney Tax Plan  (Read 1048 times)

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Offline twoshooter

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 08:04:27 AM »
LOVE it! Pig in a poke. TRUST me. There is no way his espoused plan can work, you cannot cut 20% across the board and still have the cash to function. It is like " I cut that board 3 times and it is still too short". Even with needed and reasonable cuts, SOMEBODY is going to cough up more money, and it cannot come from people that don't have any already. You butcher fat hogs first.That is just the way it works. Deal with it.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 08:12:31 AM »
One thing is for sure you can't keep people out of work and get enough tax money into run the govt. and expand the deficit and pay the wealfare to more each year. It makes good sense to put more back to work as each worker would not have to pay as much tax but since more were working there would be more tax money collected. I tend to side with the man who has been on both sides of the coin both private business and govt. over the guy who sees govt as a free ride
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 08:32:27 AM »
This is the concept the liberals do not understand.  If you cut taxes, people have more money to spend.  If they spend this money, it creates more jobs.  If it creates more jobs, you have more taxpayers.  If you have more taxpayers, your tax revenue will increase.  Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush did this, and every time the economy boomed soon after and the Feds took in more taxes.  If the economy grows by 4% each year, it will create the 12 million jobs Romney said it would do.  The economy MUST grow by 3% each year just to break even and keep people employed.  Historically it has grown over the last 100 or so years an average of 3+ percent, even counting the Great Depression.  You must grow the PIE bigger so everyone will get a bigger slice of pie.  Obama through his communist teachings, thinks the economy doesn't grow or shrink, but remains the same.  If government employees increase, who is going to pay their wages.  The government doesn't produce anything to sell for profit, it is a parasite and is only supposed to do things the private economy won't do like roads, the military, etc.  It can take taxes from producers (corporate income tax), consumers (sales taxes), workers (income tax), investment profits (capital gains on stocks or property (equity)).  Anywhere they want to tax.  Problem is.  Producers pass the tax on to the consumers.  Also if their tax it too high, they go out of business.  If consumers and workers pay too much, they can't afford to buy much.  If a farmer dies, and you don't get rid of the inheritance tax, the family farm is sold to pay taxes.  Either a farming corporation buys it, or it is subdivided into smaller lots for urban sprawl.  If the capital gains tax on stocks is too high, people will no buy stock in producing companies, thus the companies can't raise the money for plant expansion or improvements for more production, so they move overseas.  No matter which way you cut it, raising too much in taxes results in a hurt economy.  This is especially true if the government spends more than they take in.  Clinton raised taxes slightly, but the republicans in congress had balanced the budget, and the government wasn't spending more than it too in taxes.  Debt was being paid down, thus banks had more money to loan at lower rates. 
 
There are only three ways to get rid of government debt and balance the budget.
 
1) raise taxes, can't right now because it hurts economic growth, makes things worse.
2) grow the economy, this is done through trade agreements, lower taxes, especially on producere, and streamlined regulations.
3) drastically cut the budget, like welfare, food stamps, military, social security, medicare, medicaid, Obamacare, foreign aid. 
 
I think Romney is smart enough to know these things.  Liberal communists are not.  EVERY WHERE their ideas have been tried it stiffled economies, or the economies completely collapsed.
 
Economics 101 and 102 at Auburn University.  Not some Ivy league school.  SEC. 

Offline justme

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 12:49:06 PM »
Dixie Dude gets it. you other guys need to learn it..

Offline jimster

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 01:27:45 PM »
Quote
There is no way his espoused plan can work, you cannot cut 20% across the board and still have the cash to function.
Not if your spending 1.5 trillion annually over what you bring in with no budget.
Simple really...you treat it like you do in your own house or business...control the spending, which means in this case government shrinks. Another thing to consider is when people are allowed to spend their own money it gets taxed multiple times, the state and feds get more money in the long run, when they confiscate right off the bat it's a one shot deal...and guess what, they beat back the private sector and less people are working.  The IRS has info available to us, an has reported publically that the government received much more money when taxes were cut and much less when they were raised.
The socialist answer to a government needing more money is raise taxes on whoever has any money at all, the Conservatives answer is always check your spending and cut back on government waste. A no brain-er...since we all know you can't tax enough to cover the spending anyway, their is not enough wealth in the country to cover up 17 trillion...trillions are a lot by the way.
Quote
Dixie Dude gets it. you other guys need to learn it..
Dixie dude has it exactly right, it's not political either, it's simple math, and I would say the other guys get it to, cept they are stuck defending a party or an ideology instead of realizing that math rules the universe, nothing works without basic math. I got 50 bucks says the other guys run their budgets the exact opposite of they are preaching and what this government does...if not, your already bankrupt. 

Offline Swampman

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 01:30:23 PM »
Nothing short of death could keep me from voting for Romney.  I hate BHO.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 01:36:33 PM »
as grandpa pickle would say, dadburn democrats...
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 01:53:15 AM »
Nothing short of death could keep me from voting for Romney.  I hate BHO.

great post !
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Offline LONGTOM

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 03:22:44 AM »
DD does have it right and why the others can't see that is beyond me!
Maybe they just didn't do so well with basic math back when they were in school.
They do have night school and on line classes for those that seem to need it!!!
 
 
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Offline jimster

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 09:38:01 AM »
Quote
Nothing short of death could keep me from voting for Romney.  I hate BHO.

Can't say as I blame ya!  But the topic is about basic math really, the fact we are stuck with a lesser of two evils is yet another post which has been beat to death already.
You got what you got....it's American people's fault.  They ain't too bright...you can see that from a couple of posts on here, idealogy over simple math gets you where you are today. and it won't end anytime soon, when people make up their minds on being ignorant, they usually stay that way until they die.
 
 
 

Offline jimster

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 12:20:40 PM »
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What DD doesn't get is they've been doing this for 40 years or more....this kind of trickle down economics

No they haven't, since I've been alive taxes and regulations have only been cut back substantially once I know of...government got lots of cash from it but upped the spending like it was Christmas.  Since I been doing my own taxes for years, I reckon I should know.
Now if you were to say the outrageous spending and corruption has been going on for 40 years plus, yep. Progressive socialism goes back way back into the Wilson years...it's been around for a long long time.  We probably won't see regulations and taxes cut back to where it will do any good ever again.  Government hardly ever did anything conservative in the way of budgets or spending, it's just not something governments do.  What brought us to where we are today is bad math...spending more than you got.  Not any more complicated than that.  Socialism does not use budgets, no where in the world or here.  Why...cause of politics...first they go broke, then they make you go broke, then they create an enemy to divide the people and make them argue and finger point at each other, kinda takes the pressure off the government.   ;) All it really is and ever was, is spending what you didn't have, printing more of it to get by a little longer. Reps and dems...what's the difference.  Then we argue over trickle down or trickle up...I have to laugh...there ain't nothin to trickle either way anymore so what's the use of debating that.   

 

Offline Gary G

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 01:07:05 PM »
It does not matter. No candidate will say cut medicare or social security and hope to get elected. We are past the point of no return. Mandatory spending is greater than the revenue even if all discretionary is cut. No amount of tax has historically garnered more than 18-20% of GDP regardless of whether it is raised or lessened. Prepare to take care of yourself.


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Offline magooch

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2012, 04:27:22 PM »
In my state a number of years ago, our yearly auto license and registration fees had gotten so high that it wasn't unusual for it to amount to a thousand bucks, or more for a luxury car.  Through a voters initiative and some fanagling wih the courts and legislature, the fees were reduced to around $40 per vehicle.  The state government said it would bankrupt the state and drive it to ruin.  It did just the opposite.  It unleashed a spending spree on vehicles the likes of witch hasn't been seen.  I bought a Cady Seville and my wife got a Deville, which we never would have gotten under the old tax rates.  Since the fees were lowered, the damn Dumycrats have kept on screwing with it and trying to drive it up, but it's still just a fraction of what it used to be.
 
So it absolutely works to lower taxes to produce more revenue for the government.  It works every time it's tried.  But government being what it is can and does always outspend any revenue enhancement effort.  Lowering taxes stimulates business and that is the driver for added revenue and jobs.  Raising tax rates is guaranteed to produce just the opposite results.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2012, 01:28:07 AM »
For all of us OLD folks with everything paid for, his plan will benefit us.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2012, 01:42:38 AM »
Ya'll need to realize dumb-o-crats don't set taxes as to what is needed or what is fair or even with consideration to where it will come from with the exception of socking it to the rich ( never mind they are often rich or become rich , Bill C. or Obama as example) .
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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2012, 03:26:53 AM »
GW only cut taxes about 3%, and he nearly caused a depression.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2012, 03:34:18 AM »
I think if you look GW could only suggest a tax cut the congress did it along with forcing bad loans to be given out by banks they bought up by holding companies supported by govt. I think you will find democrats at the botton of most if not all of it . Much like the Obama HC act was passed by democrats in congress not Obama . Study up on how Our govt. works then siff thru the politics it will become clear who needs replacing in govt. in 18 days.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2012, 03:46:37 AM »
In 2007 the Federal Government took in the most tax revenue EVER.  Under Bush's tax cuts.  Hmm, they were working.  It was the Housing Bubble created by ALLOWING people with bad or no credit to buy homes they couldn't afford.  This happened because of BILL CLINTON in 1998 working with a Republican congress to change the laws.  Both thought this would help stimulate growth and allow the poor to be able to become homeowners.  Both sides are at fault here.  It was also Bush advisors who WARNED congress of a Housing bubble they would burst soon in 2006 if something wasn't done to tighten up housing loans.  Dems took over congress in 2006, so again, it was both sides faults for not doing anything.  It wasn't all Bush, it was Dems too. 
 
That being said, Romney's plan ISN'T Bush's.  Romney's is far more comprehensive.  You can't know the details in a 2 minute speeking at a debate or a 1 minute commercial on TV.  Look it up on Romney's website. 
 
The current economic system can work. HOWEVER, in good years the government must run a surplus budget, which is used to pay off any debt, and to SAVE for bad times.  Then spend on works programs (not welfare) to get the economy running.  This is Keynesian (John Maynard Keynes) economics.  The goverment NEVER cuts, pays off and saves during good times.  That is the biggest problem.  They see a surplus, and want to spend it on another program somewhere.
 
We also need to return to a gold standard to stop inflation period. 
 
In 1800, one ounce of gold ($20 gold piece) or $20 dollars could buy you two suits of clothes. 
In 1900, one ounce of gold ($20 gold piece) or $20 dollars could buy you two suits of clothes. 
In 2000, one ounce of gold could buy you two suits of clothes, but it took several hundred dollars. 
 
Why, the Federal Reserve system allowing money to float, and Nixon in 1971 doing away with the gold standard, thus causing inflation.  With inflation, it is a never ending battle to try to balance what things are worth, debt, etc. 
 
Romney did agree in one of the debates last year with Ron Paul about studying the possiblity of going back to the gold standard and auditing the Federal Reserve.  Romney has about $500,000 worth of gold, while Ron Paul has about $250,000 worth of gold.  Both know something. 

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 04:15:34 AM »
I think if you look GW could only suggest a tax cut the congress did it along with forcing bad loans to be given out by banks they bought up by holding companies supported by govt. I think you will find democrats at the botton of most if not all of it . Much like the Obama HC act was passed by democrats in congress not Obama . Study up on how Our govt. works then siff thru the politics it will become clear who needs replacing in govt. in 18 days.

No bank has ever been forced to give a loan in this country. Clinton signed the bill that ALLOWED them to make bad loans because that was the only way the Republicans would agree to balance the budget. The banks LOBBIED for that, because they were allowed to charge much higher interest on sub-prime loans. On any mortgage, almost all of the first several years goes to interest, and they made even more on the sub-prime loans. They thought they were safe making those loans, because those loans were theoretically insured. The insurance policies are the "derivatives" Unfortunately, part of the deregulation also allowed investment banks to buy up the mortgages held by the regular banks. When the homeowners started to default, there was not enough money to cover the insurance claims. Deregulation caused all this.
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Offline magooch

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2012, 04:49:52 AM »
So why didn't the Dumycrats fix it all when they had total control for the first two years of Obama?  Instead, they just made things worse and put us on a course to Greecedom.
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Offline Gary G

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 04:54:14 AM »
Can you distinguish which big government party did best? Which big government party will you vote for?
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 05:52:42 AM »
LOVE it! Pig in a poke. TRUST me. There is no way his espoused plan can work, you cannot cut 20% across the board and still have the cash to function. It is like " I cut that board 3 times and it is still too short". Even with needed and reasonable cuts, SOMEBODY is going to cough up more money, and it cannot come from people that don't have any already. You butcher fat hogs first.That is just the way it works. Deal with it.
But taxes are not a zero sum gain.  Lowering taxes actually does a lot to lower prices, increase demand and increase disposable incomes.
Companies see taxes as a Cost.  Costs plus profits equal price.  As costs drop prices too will drop.  As your taxes drop you have more $ to fill some of your unlimited wants with greater means.  After all a price is what prople are willing and able to pay.  If you increase the ability to pay you have more being sold.  As more is sold it increases profits that cause other people to get into markets.  Lowering unemployment and under employment that raises incomes as incomes are raised more taxes are paid.  At a lower rate but more is collected.
We have the laws of supply and demand they are like the laws of gravity and can not be changed because some communist or socialist things it should work that way.  Stealing more from one groups does nothing for the people at the bottom except hurt them.  Allowiong groups to keep their money allows them to spend, save, or invest it all help the economy.
We did this in the 80's and lowerd tax rates dramaticly.  It is what made the computer and cell phone industry making Billionaires and Millionaires out of many who had nothing when they started by being able to give people whath they wanted and they were able to afford it due to greater employment, and greater disposable incomes.
Disposable income is what you have to spend after all your needs are met.  Shelter, Food and fuel.   Once you get past needs you are into wants.  Want a new car, want a new gun, want to go out to dinner, want to go to or send someone to school?  This is where your disposable income comes into effect.  If you are using all of your post tax incomes to meet your needs then nothing will be done aboiut your wants.  Think about this.  If taxes are increased and prices go up you can not go out to dinner as often as you once did.  Or you order less costly items on the menue.  Who does that hurt?  The waiter, the buss boy, the cook the owner, the farmer.  As you spend less you will tip less, same rate or even a higher rate but less total dollars.  The waiter in turn gives a portion to the buss boy cuttng his pay and now their incomes are cut and their disposable incomes drop and they may not beable ot afford school anymore.  Cutting the college income and they lay off the support staff and the lowest trained of them. 
Higher taxes hurt the poor and the middle class.  Lower taxes help move people from poor to rich and rich to poor as new products are devoloped.  If we had taxes that made it impossible for people to build or afford cars the leading family in buggy whips would still be the richest people in the country.

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2012, 07:24:07 AM »
Quote
Higher taxes hurt the poor and the middle class.  Lower taxes help move people from poor to rich and rich to poor as new products are devoloped.  If we had taxes that made it impossible for people to build or afford cars the leading family in buggy whips would still be the richest people in the country.

Add to that: If you tax the rich higher........they leave and take their money with them.
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Offline Gary G

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2012, 07:37:14 AM »
Any tax is a transfer of capital from the people to the government. Every dollar in tax is a dollar that can not be spent in the private economy and more than likely will be squandered by the government to buy votes.
Period!
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2012, 08:40:19 AM »
Yep, there needs to be the following in order to clean up politics:
 
1) Term limits for senators (two terms), representatives (4 terms), supreme court 9 years with one added each year and one going off.  No retirement benefits since they will not be there for 20-30 years like in the private economy.
 
2) Benefits limits for elected officials and government employees.  They should be the same for them as everone else.  If Obamacare for us, for them too.  No difference.  Make the government employees have private insurance, not out of the public funds.  Government could pay for part of insurance like private corporations, but not control it.
 
3) Balanced budget amendment requiring a balanced budget except in national emergencies like a war, or say unemployment goes over 10%, then a works program will kick in to keep people working, not sitting collecting.  That way they don't loose the work ethic.  FDR didn't have a welfare program during the Great Depression, but a works program to put people to work earning money, but planting forests, building roads and bridges, expanding the military. 
 
4) No government money for corporations, like Solendra or oil companies.  Tax breaks maybe for realistic investments they make, like drilling costs, or set up production costs, worker training costs. 
 
5) Go back to allowing people like the NRA or the Christian Coalitian, or even a liberal group to back cantidates that support their values like planned parenthood or NOW.  The last Campaign Finance Reform killed most conservative groups from donating, but allowed for superpacs that get around the law.  Most of the old pac money like this was generated by conservative groups, not liberal groups. 
 
Just the first 4 would clean up a lot.   

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2012, 01:25:55 PM »
What DD doesn't get is they've been doing this for 40 years or more....this kind of trickle down economics....and it has been proven to be gush up economics and has brought us to the precipice we see today... Sure, it has created bubbles from time to time, but always ends up in an energy crunch and war on the middle class, or a shooting war some place. Currently there is a recession looming toward depression for most Americans.....except for the elite. The elite have not had a recession--they have had boom times for 40 years and the chickens are coming home roost.
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What we need to do his stop or modify the 'social welfare programs' for the elite ( like de-regulating, huge tax breaks, zero capital gains tax, offshoring havens, and other elitist social welfare) and put money back into the middle class pocket books, breakup the capital log jam as it were..  We need to stop social welfare for elite as DD proposes and get the people that caused national debt to pay it off...which isn't me.  Neither BHO and especially Romney will do this.  Especially Romney because he's the bonafide Wall St candidate and his contributors and small group of funders come first and foremost. Secondly, he is likely a more war candidate looking at who his cabinet and advisors are, which are basically Bush Jr. retreads.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2012, 01:31:44 PM »
What DD doesn't get is they've been doing this for 40 years or more....this kind of trickle down economics....and it has been proven to be gush up economics and has brought us to the precipice we see today... Sure, it has created bubbles from time to time, but always ends up in an energy crunch and war on the middle class, or a shooting war some place. Currently there is a recession looming toward depression for most Americans.....except for the elite. The elite have not had a recession--they have had boom times for 40 years and the chickens are coming home roost.
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What we need to do his stop or modify the 'social welfare programs' for the elite ( like de-regulating, huge tax breaks, zero capital gains tax, offshoring havens, and other elitist social welfare) and put money back into the middle class pocket books, breakup the capital log jam as it were..  We need to stop social welfare for elite as DD proposes and get the people that caused national debt to pay it off...which isn't me.  Neither BHO and especially Romney will do this.  Especially Romney because he's the bonafide Wall St candidate and his contributors and small group of funders come first and foremost. Secondly, he is likely a more war candidate looking at who his cabinet and advisors are, which are basically Bush Jr. retreads.
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.....TM7
AAAAANT!
Loud Buzzer noise.
Your answer is incorrect.  Thanks for playing.
Governemnt over spending and raising taxes are what have killed huge swings in the economy following tax cuts.
The Bush tax cut was small and was mitagated by most Blue states raising taxes at or more then the Federal tax cut.
Economic Laws are like the laws of gravity and are very predictable. 
The spin is what ytou have bought in believing that the stupid policies are there to help when all they do is hurt.
TRhe rRegan tax cuts fueld economic booms into Clintons second term and were finally killed by tax increases over spending the government cooking the books.  That makes Enron, Wall street or the dirivitives market look small.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2012, 01:12:01 PM »
And the Obama Central Planning of what companies he wants and what products he is willing it invest 90 Billion into only put large sums of money into his doners hands and had those same companies fail is a much better plan.
Are these the jobs he keeps saying he created, like Solyndra that folded and we saw the last employees breaking the taxpayer purchased expensive tubes into glass shards as they tossed bundle after bundle into a bumpster?
I think I would rather have corperate welfare like Tim Geitner (Democrat)  and his running of General Electric that paid Zero taxes two years ago to make up for losses and companies like Staplkes that Romney helped to reorganize after failed management.  allowing them to get back on their feet keep people employed and paying taxes most of the time than the silly economic system.  Do you understand that the companies that stay in business during down years are allowed to recoup losses by not paying taxes?  And if this is so bad whay did Gietner not pay taxes as he is a Democrat and thinks highertaxes are good for everyone but him.  Remember him he is the Tax cheat Obama has running the IRS. Obama devised where all the winners of his lottery (Stimulus) are now rich having stolen money and killed jobs that make the failing banks handing out bonuses look tame to the theft that was done buy Obama and Biden in the Stimulus plan where we found out that shovel ready was not shovel ready and that the shovel ready plans that involved manufacturing or refining using fossil fuels were denyed that would have created real jobs as well as good paying tempory construction jobs.
Corperate welfare would only be welfare if they did not pay more then they recieve.  Companies pay taxes on the profits they make.  Again this confuses me about Liberals.  They have conflicting montras of higher taxes and no profits. 
How can you pay higher taxes if you have no profits? 
How can you claim taxes help the Poor when all they do is increase the Price of goods and services to them?
How much is too much to pay in taxes total?  I mean between Federal and all the State taxes and Federal Fees?  30% 40% 90%  what is too much?  At what point are you no longer a person and a slave to Big Government?
At what tax point is it not worth opening a new company, designing the better mouse trap, or hiring someone else to share your work load?
I say corperate welfare is nothing compared ot BIG Government Welfare and how much it takes to feed the beast that just wants more and more and produces NOTHING.

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: The Romney Tax Plan
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2012, 01:50:12 PM »
TM, very astute, and factual. For that reason, it will be labeled leftist propaganda on here. I notices also that everyone ignored my post on the subject: if GW lowered taxes 3%, and caused the great recession, how can Nitt lower them another 20% and make the country solvent? Not. Going. To. Happen.  :)
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