Author Topic: .223 Bullet for deer (Read 1783 times)

mechanic · « **on:** October 20, 2012, 03:10:57 PM »

I will have to hunt this season with my .223..no heavier recoil for a while. If it were a 1 in 9 twist, I've got just the 70 grain bullet, but it won't group these well at all. I've been using a 52gr. match hollow point to punch paper with, and have taken one coyote with one of these as a DRT. I doubt this bullets integrity on deer. I have some 45 gr. sp's, but that seems too light.

Anyone have any experience with light bullets on deer size game? Back in the mid 80's my Dad was in this position, and took several deer with a mini 14 and 70gr. sp's.

Thanks,

Ben

tacklebury · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:30:48 PM »

I've heard good things about the 60 and 65 gr. Sierra Gamekings.

Never used them personally.

mechanic · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:36:08 PM »

I wonder how well they would shoot in a 1 in 12 twist barrel? I've been watching the classifieds for a 1 in 9, one will come along some day, but in the mean time, gotta' make do!

Less margin for error with these little bullets than the 45-70 or 280 I've been shootin'.

I wish you could buy a 12 pack of bullets to try them out. The mfr's would help us out if you could. That way I could just order in 4 or 5 kinds before I buy a bunch.

Thanks,
Ben

twoshooter · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:49:23 PM »

The closest thing I have are 63 gr PSP, Sierra I think, I did have some 64 gr win Power Point. If you would like to try the 63 gr, pm me a mailing address and I will send you what I have left, which is 15-20 bullets. They are very similar to the Power points, so if they work, the Win probably would also. Timothy.

redleg11b · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:54:11 PM »

Black Hills told me their 60gr sp is deer tough, but Hornady says it is a varmint bullet. Plenty still use it though. On the other hand Federal P223Q (60gr Partition) may work in a 1:12. The $23/box makes it less than ideal, but could give you an idea if it would be worth buying a box of just bullets. Or get the bullets and sell if it doesn't work out.

mechanic · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:55:19 PM »

Timothy,

I appreciate it, but don't want to put anyone to that trouble. After I get a few recommendations, I'm just going to head south to my dealer and buy a box of each. I've got about two weeks before I can hunt, so I'll work on some groups I guess. I had about 500 or more of the match hollow points when I got the .223 barrel, they grouped very well so I've not gone further. Thank you so much though.

Ben

jedman · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:58:53 PM »

Barnes all copper , Worth the money.

tacklebury · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:03:58 PM »

Ah, the 65 gr. Gameking requires 1:10 maximum twist. Maybe the 55 gr. would be better, sorry:

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=bc&stock_num=1365&bullettype=0
http://www.natchezss.com/Bullets.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=SI&prodID=SI1365&prodTitle=Sierra .224 55 gr GameKing SBT 100/box at only $16.49 / box

wtroger · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:09:07 PM »

I have killed several with the 55 gr Win Sp loaded over Imr4895 no issues bang flop

Spanky · « **Reply #9 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:20:50 PM »

Don't underestimate that 45gr. bullet.

I have flattened quite a few deer with 22 caliber centerfires and most of the time it's with a 45gr. softpoint. Don't try taking any quartering shots if you can help it... broadside heart/lung shots are the best way to go (in my opinion). Alot of guys will scoff at 22's for deer but that's probably because they've never seen the aftermath of the shot. I've shot deer with my 22 Hornet, 223, and 22-250 (all with 45gr. bullets) and the damage needs to be seen to be believed... let's just say it's not pretty when you open up the chest cavity.

If your rifle will shoot heavier bullets at all I'd also recommend the 60gr. Nosler Partition... it's performance on deer is also excellent and should offer a little more penetration in the case of a slight quartering shot.
The most important thing with the 22's is range... don't get carried away. You're not going to knock them over at 300 yds. with a 22. Keep it within reasonable ranges and you'll flatten deer all day long. The longest shot I've taken on a deer with a 22 was with my 223 at just over 100 yds. I aimed low in the chest cavity and hit him in the top of the heart. He didn't take a single step. I couldn't have done any better with a 30-06 or a 300 mag... dead is dead.

Good luck this year... I'm sure you'll do fine.

Spanky

PowPow · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:22:50 PM »

65 SIE Gas tumbled in my 1:14 22-250.
Expect a similar rpm in the 1:12 223.

I would go with the 55 SIE GK.
Shot a doe at 200 yards with the 22-250.
Blew up its heart.
I would think the 223 would be similar at 100.

Another choice for light recoil might be trail boss and light bullets in a 30-30 for a bigger hole.

keith44 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:33:18 PM »

Hi Ben,

In another recent thread I posted about using a .22 K-Hornet loaded to 3,100 fps with 45 gr Round nose to take a doe one year. That year I had two doe tags and a buck tag. I had already filled the buck tag, and was looking for coyotes. A doe at 50 yards was just too tempting. I took a head shot, and the effects were dramatic to say the least. Thinking this was a fluke shot and having had a request for deer meat I thought I'd try again. Well the second doe was shot at 75 yards in the "boiler room". I aimed carefully behind the shoulder, about mid lung. She went 40 yards and collapsed. Blood clots in both lungs, the bullet was in a rib on the off side.

Based on this I would put the minimum weight at 55 grains, and would look real hard at the Nosler Partition .224"

http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Partition.aspx

I really don't see any other .22 cal bullets I would consider, were I in need of taking deer with a .22 cal again.

MNSHOOTER · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:53:05 PM »

I also have a 1 in 12 handi in 223. It is one of the best shooters I own ! Two yaers ago my daughter shot a large 4x4 SD whitetail that was an easy 200 lb deer. I had reservations about the 233 and deer but that kill took them all away !! The shot placement was tight behind the shoulder and broke the off leg. He was down in 20 yards. I have taken 2 since then with the same rifle in SD both big deer. We also used the winchester 55 gr power point bulk bullets. I did load them down a bit on the velocity to keep the bullet intact, around 3250 fps if I rember right. The 223 and 55 gr bullets are a nasty combo when used with in there limits......Mark

demented · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:53:45 PM »

60 grain Nosler Partition and 64 grain WW Powerpoint are two that have worked in 1/12 twist rifles. I can vouch that the Partition ain't bad on deer either.

c1skout · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:54:12 PM »

My brother has 2 223 Handi rifles, one with 1-12 the other 1-9 and they both shoot the Winchester 64gn power point well. His wife used one last season and got a big 10pt. Not a bang flop but he didn't make 50yds after the shot.

rugerfan.64 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2012, 05:09:46 PM »

I have been shooting Sierra 65 Gamekings out of my Rem 700 for several years now. Its got the 1:12 twist barrel. The barrel is 26" so I am sure that helps with the rotational velocity and helps to stabilize them somewhat. I have tried them out to 400 yards and they are stable out to that far. I dont know what theyd do to a deer but I know they will knock a coyote flat on its butt. They are always thru and thru on them. I saw a video once of them shot into water, perfect mushroom. I use a healthy dose of Varget to get them going. They are fine shooting little bullets.

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2012, 05:17:27 PM »

As I recall you had a recent post on recoil in 357 Max. This is just a thought, but if your Max has a standard stock (non-thumbhole) you can add two rolls of nickles and a partial roll to fill out the stock bolt hole, which will give you over a pound of extra weight. That pound with a standard or slightly reduced 158gr 357 Mag will give you about the same recoil as a heavy bullet 223. 100 yards max range with a cast bullet should work fine.

cjrjck · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2012, 05:48:30 PM »

I've seen a lot of .223 rifles used for deer in South Texas. Typically they use regular varmint bullets and limit their shots to broad side hits. Terminal performance is explosive but wounds can be shallow. Stay away from bone or you may not get sufficient penetration. I took a buck in Georgia last year with my .223 Handi. My first with that caliber. Dropped at the shot. Barnes X through the shoulder. Bullet exited as the Barnes normally do. Wound channel was not all that impressive (diameter) but it did its job. I will probably use that combination on hogs in the future but not deer unless one presents itself during my hog hunts.I have found the 45 grain to 52 grain Barnes copper bullets stabilize in my Handi.

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 20, 2012, 05:54:41 PM »

Caliber's like this really rely on velocity to be effective. I would stay on the low side of bullets as Spanky suggested. The only downside is while a .223 can be really effective at under 150 yards, as the range increases it loses that quickly against larger game.

Here's a little Bubba ballistic test for you he's intending it for coyotes but if you consider how wide a 1 gallon milk jug is that a kill on a whitetail, and very nasty at that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDJnG_jPlLU

As has been stated would want to avoid shots where the deer is quartering away from you. Also while I don't generally recommend it there is always the head option.

twoshooter · « **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2012, 06:57:06 PM »

No problem, guys here have been really helpful and sent me stuff. I had some left over from load research on my own, I never shoot at deer with a 223 anyway and will never use them. My 223's are strictly varmint rigs. If I were going for light recoil myself I would much rather use a std 357 mag than a 223, especially unless I was going for a head shot. I have taken several with a 22mag at 50 yards and less and they were dead faster than some shot with my Whelan. If you change your mind , I would be happy to send them, otherwise, good luck and I will keep an eye out for range reports to see what you wind up choosing.

theratdog · « **Reply #20 on:** October 20, 2012, 08:47:44 PM »

my handy with 1-9 twist doesn't like the 62 grain hollow points they tumble bad .i haven't tried the 1-12 i have it likes the 45 grn bullet's best the 357 would be a good one for around 100 yards to.not much recoil.

redleg11b · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2012, 03:00:14 AM »

Found this down in the small bore section.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,258923.0.html

DANNY-L · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2012, 03:11:09 AM »

A few yrs ago after major back surgery I was in the position that if I hunted it would have to be low recoil, so I chose to use my handi in 22 hornet with 45gr sp. I took 2 deer at under 150yds tight behind the shoulders and 1 dropped right there and the other went no more than 20yds. Surprising considering I've had them go further with much larger calibers. For the 223 I once loaded up 63gr and my wife took a very nice running buck through the lungs and it was dead 30-40yds downhill. I have gotten good 100yd groups with the sierra 65gr for 1/7-1/10 twist in a 1/9 twist mini that I had,my 1/7 ar and my rem.model 7 which I think is a 1/12 twist but haven't taken it out yet for deer so I don't know how that would work but I think it would do the job. As always stated,it's all about shot placement. If ya take out the lungs they are dead

Hunter6657 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2012, 04:28:11 AM »

The winchester 64gr powerpoint ammo works fine on deer if your barrel will shoot them ok. i have a buddy in texas that shot over 30 hogs and 9 deer one season using them. He said he would find the bullet under the skin on the opposite side perfectly mushroomed. This in a Remington 223 SPS rifle. I don't what the twist was on that rifle.

I think that slowing down the 55gr SP to 2800fps or so would make them act more like a big game bullet and mushroom instead of fragmenting.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2012, 06:44:43 AM »

For a long time starting in the last century

I have used 224 dia bullets in center fire rifles with great success.A 50gr Sierra blitz bullet properly placed will drop a deer as fast as a hooker"s drawers in a mining camp!
23.5 grs of H4895 and above mentioned bullet was responsible for the demise of 146 white tailed deer in one night of controlled hunting in a peanut patch. None moved , dead right there.And no the weapon was not a Handi, it was a H&K SL-6 with a sound modification device attached

Good Luck on your Recovery
George

tomtomz · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2012, 07:38:22 AM »

We've put a stop on small caliber weapons on our land for deer.
Too many cripples left and not enough clean kills with AR rifles.
Hunting with a bolt rifle and a good scope is what we allow.

We have Mule deer approaching 300 pounds. Typically long shots across a canyon, etc.
A 257 Roberts is the smallest rifle that will produce a clean kill, in our collective experience.

The demands of Western deer hunting may differ from other areas.

Bring enough gun, I say.

bucmeister · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2012, 07:57:30 AM »

We (son and I) have taken numerous deer with my Rem 788 .223 with the 55 typical looking spire point bullet his best was a 160lb buck at 170yds one shot.

Unfortunately Barnes quit making the bullet I preferred to use that being the 60gr "Original" which looked like a piece of copper tubing with a small lead core. My gun loved them and it would penetrate while holding together as witnessed by a shot that went directly through both shoulder ball joints stopping under the offside skin on a adult doe at a hair over 100 yds a number of years back.

Have not shot any yet but did buy some of the .53gr Barnes TSX bullets that should work about like the 60gr originals did. Now days I prefer to select shoot my does with head and upper neck shots since I have an almost rest type setup in the stand that sports the most deer sightings.

PowPow · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2012, 08:01:05 AM »

Another option is to take AtlLaw with you and tell him where to point his 45/70.

Sourdough · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2012, 09:14:00 AM »

I have had good results with the 55gr Nosler CT Ballistic Silver Tip. It's not as explosive as their other 55gr bullets. I shot an 80lb Wolf two years ago with it. The wolf was looking at me when I shot it, and ran about 150 yards, then fell dead. If it had not been looking at me I don't think it would have ran that far if at all. We found one lung totally gone. The base holds together better. I'd also try the 60gr partition. Your gun just might shoot them decent enough to be a viable option. This is what the Partition is designed for, but they don't make it in a lighter bullet than 60gr. Look for an accurate load don't try for the highest velocity. Accuracy is the name of the game with this plan. Good luck. If you do your part it will be a snap.

FYI: I was using W748 powder with 24.5 or 25 gr. Seems like the 24.5 was the most accurate with the 55gr bullet. That was with my first .223 barrel with the 1 in 12 twist. With the 60gr Partition I use 25gr RL15

Wagguy80 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 21, 2012, 09:23:05 AM »

These kind of topics can go round and round, and there is good sound logic on both sides.

So the real question is what are you hunting, where, etc.

For example here in North MS a "Big" doe is 120lbs. A .223 at 150 yards or less will do the job if the shooter does his.

Anything else is always a grab bag if the deer is shot wrong. Shot an illegal buck last year as a mercy thing had a crossbow bolt sticking out of it's side. So infected nobody would even chance eating it. Had been like that probably for weeks.

If you were capable of handling a larger caliber I would say go for it. However for a kid or someone who cannot handle the recoil you gotta do the best with what you can. Shoot smart, shoot clean, and you shouldn't have a problem.

Shoot unclean, and you'll find wounded animals that have been shot by pretty much every high powered rifle out there.